Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[dp21]

So I wonder what GA haven't done to have to retrospectively add a yellow panel. The 345s seem to be able to operate over a large part of the national rail network (so far Liv St to Southend, GWML, WCML) without a yellow panel. Presumably the headlight specifications are identical.

The headlights will all be to the TSI specificiation so whilst they'll be of a different design they both meet the same specification.

The issue is level crossings (including foot crossings with no indication of an oncoming train), of which there are comparatively few on the lines you list.

Quite right - we have an irritatingly large number of them especially on the rurals but also on the mainline.

Are both 755 and 745 to have yellow panels?

They are indeed. As will the 720s I'm told.

 

[306024]

The Ipswich in 60 aspiration confuses me mate. It happens daily now on the 17:00 down 'East Anglian' which usually arrives as on Thursday last week around 17:57

It could be slightly less, even without the new trains. The problem is to achieve a half decent path for the Anglian there is a 15 minute gap between Colchester line departures (16.47 Witham then 17.02 Norwich). That results in the 17.02 being particularly busy from Stratford and not one to be reduced from 12 to 8 cars if there is a stock shortage.

Faster paths for Norwich trains would result in greater gaps for other services unless those stopping services can be significantly speeded up to keep out of the way. Getting to Norwich in 90 minutes arguably isn’t worth it if it worsens the service for Chelmsford, Witham and Colchester (where the real income is), never mind Diss.

 

[dk1]

Urgh. So every other train from Diss will soon be a commuter train with no buffet and no first class. Triffic. Not.
They haven't ordered enough FLIRTs for the GEML.

I suppose something has to give. Diss is blessed to have to trains an hour to London in my opinion.

 

[lordbusiness]

I can' believe the TOC signed up for it in the first place. Are peoples lives really that busy that an extra 15- 20 minutes on a train makes that much difference?

Classic case of MP's and others who know nothing of the complexities of running a modern railway dictating what should happen. If they want a shorter journey to London move to Chelmsford.

 

[TheEdge]

Norwich and 90 isn't worth it at all.

Its just a soundbite thats been jumped on by various parties that have no idea how railways work and how difficult it is to achieve

 

[dk1]

Norwich and 90 isn't worth it at all.

Its just a soundbite thats been jumped on by various parties that have no idea how railways work and how difficult it is to achieve

Are the bets still on that Chloe will be topless up front of the first one?

 

[eastdyke]

Norwich and 90 isn't worth it at all.
Its just a soundbite thats been jumped on by various parties that have no idea how railways work and how difficult it is to achieve

Norwich in 90 certainly isn't worth it if the service to other places along the line is degraded. A 20 minute 'interval' service with a journey time of around 105 would serve most passengers better.
But the 'Norwich in 90' is not so much about actual passengers but more about Developers, Estate Agents and Authorities being able to market Norwich as within 90 minutes of the capital. The fact that many of the developments are another 45 minutes or so journey away from the station matters not a jot. Local people with local jobs will find out that housing becomes increasingly less affordable.
When I lived and worked in Norwich part of the attraction was that it was not quite so accessible as some other places ....

Those promoting Norwich in 90 had no need to know how railways work and how difficult the result is to achieve. The DfT has been complicit in a campaign that does not benefit the majority. Job done.

 

[trebor79]

I suppose something has to give. Diss is blessed to have to trains an hour to London in my opinion.

Why does anything have to give? They are changing the service patterns and haven't bought enough trains.
Allegedly the commuter trains were only to be used for a few peak Norwich services. The truth appears to be different, which was obvious from the outset if one thought about it a little.

 

[chubs]

They are changing the service patterns and haven't bought enough trains.

According to you.

I'm going to side with GA who probably put many hours of research and thought into the number of trains needed.

Diss and Stowmarket have always had a much grander service than most other small towns of their size. It wasn't that long ago every other Intercity skipped them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

According to you.

I'm going to side with GA who probably put many hours of research and thought into the number of trains needed.

Diss and Stowmarket have always had a much grander service than most other small towns of their size. It wasn't that long ago every other Intercity skipped them.

TBH it's barely justifiable that the Anglia mainline has any kind of proper InterCity service (rather than a bog-standard no-catering multiples-of-4-car EMU one). It's barely different conceptually from other parts of NSE that don't have such services, and I think Abellio know that well.

 

[eastdyke]

TBH it's barely justifiable that the Anglia mainline has any kind of proper InterCity service (rather than a bog-standard no-catering multiples-of-4-car EMU one). It's barely different conceptually from other parts of NSE that don't have such services, and I think Abellio know that well.

History is sometimes useful. Whilst Norwich is no longer the second largest 'town' in the country after London (it once was), it was never a part of NSE. (And Ipswich was not either).
Diss needs 2 tph to access Norwch, there is no viable bus service and car journeys are slow both because the roads are NBG.
For a rural town of the size of Diss the rail passenger usage is very high.
As to the wisdom of some services having first class and others not then time only will tell.
If the local MP (South Norfolk) Richard Bacon, a member of the Great Eastern Mainline Taskforce, is awake to what is going on he should be prepared for angst from some of his constituents.
Terms of reference here:
https://newanglia.co.uk/wp-content/...ce-Agreed-Terms-of-Reference-1-March-2018.pdf
They seem to think that they are getting 'Colchester in 30', all members of the taskforce will forever be disappointed on that
Extract:

Faster journey times with key services achieving Norwich in 90, Ipswich in 60 and Colchester in 30

Just where that came from, I have no idea!

 

[trebor79]

Diss needs 2 tph to access Norwch, there is no viable bus service and car journeys are slow both because the roads are NBG.
For a rural town of the size of Diss the rail passenger usage is very high.

Exactly. And I can't see how Norwich in 90 minutes can be achieved other than by bunching the the other services up to make a path.
So rather than the regular half hourly service we are now going to have 2 services relatively close together and then a big gap. And now either a half or a third of the trains, dependant upon which station you depart from or to, will have no catering.

To me that is a worse service than at present. A perfectly good service being trashed to allow some politicians to claim they've achieved something.
One wonder if anybody has actually bothered to explain the changes to passengers and asked them if they want to make that trade off for (some) faster services.

 

[LAX54]

Colchester in 30 ? 52 miles in 30 mins ?? Norwich in 90 will, if at all possible, will only be 1 a day at the most I would have thought.

 

[hexagon789]

Colchester in 30 ? 52 miles in 30 mins ?? Norwich in 90 will, if at all possible, will only be 1 a day at the most I would have thought.

Colchester in 30 would be impossible at present, you can't average 104 with a linespeed of 100!

Norwich in 90 is definitely possible with present infrastructure (about a 76/77 mph average); though I agree that it will likely only be a few 'headline' limited stop services, likely at peak times.

 

[eastdyke]

One wonder if anybody has actually bothered to explain the changes to passengers and asked them if they want to make that trade off for (some) faster services.

The nearest passengers at Diss (also Stowmarket and Manningtree) are likely to get to any substantially faster service is when the train flashes past whilst they are on the platform

 

[eastdyke]

Colchester in 30 ? 52 miles in 30 mins ?? Norwich in 90 will, if at all possible, will only be 1 a day at the most I would have thought.

The franchise agreement (FWIW) is for 'Norwich in 90' to be 2tpd each way.
These are rather unlikely to be in the peak for pathing reasons.

 

[dp21]

The franchise agreement (FWIW) is for 'Norwich in 90' to be 2tpd each way.
These are rather unlikely to be in the peak for pathing reasons.

The trial runs did achieve the timings but only just. If the Stadler units have better acceleration than the 90s this might help this timing too.

I comment on this particular reply because I believe it's absolutely correct. The run needs greens all the way and having that in the peak is very unlikely unless someone corrects me!

 

[Rick1984]

Joining the Lowestoft to London service at Ipswich to one from either Cambridge or Peterborough would seem to make sense. Not that is what is going to happen

 

[Wivenswold]

Yellow fronts? Nooooooooo! Anyway, the timetable consultantion that was due in "Spring 2018" should resolve these timing questions. If it appears. 14 days left before it's another promise not delivered.

Sorry if that sounds negative but I feel less confident about the new franchise commitments now. Started to get a bad feeling when it was announced that WA will be getting the initial 10 car 720 units (when they are surely needed to add capacity on the GEML).

 

[dk1]

Colchester in 30 ? 52 miles in 30 mins ?? Norwich in 90 will, if at all possible, will only be 1 a day at the most I would have thought.

Whoever said or thought Colchester in 30 must've been sozzled. First I've heard.

 

[LAX54]

The trial runs did achieve the timings but only just. If the Stadler units have better acceleration than the 90s this might help this timing too.

I comment on this particular reply because I believe it's absolutely correct. The run needs greens all the way and having that in the peak is very unlikely unless someone corrects me!

Indeed, the trial run was a Sunday with a 12 car 360, but although had greens 99% of the way, it still had to wait at Ipswich for 20 mins for pathing and a clear run, and that was on a Sunday !

Whoever said or thought Colchester in 30 must've been sozzled. First I've heard.

Start to Stop: 104mph

 

[Wivenswold]

I'm going to give it a go on Train Sim. I'll make it interesting and use the APT.

 

[Class 170101]

Indeed, the trial run was a Sunday with a 12 car 360, but although had greens 99% of the way, it still had to wait at Ipswich for 20 mins for pathing and a clear run, and that was on a Sunday!
Start to Stop: 104mph

And all tracks open London to Shenfield.

 

[LAX54]

And all tracks open London to Shenfield.

on a two track railway

 

[hexagon789]

Start to Stop: 104mph

Which is of course impossible on a 100mph route!

I'm going to give it a go on Train Sim. I'll make it interesting and use the APT.

Well at 155mph, I imagine you could average 104 to Colchester quite comfortably!

 

[LAX54]

Which is of course impossible on a 100mph route!



Well at 155mph, I imagine you could average 104 to Colchester quite comfortably!

In order to cater for this, they are building a new Colchester North Station at Ardleigh, this will enable 'gentle' braking from 155mph to the station stop

 

[hexagon789]

In order to cater for this, they are building a new Colchester North Station at Ardleigh, this will enable 'gentle' braking from 155mph to the station stop

Step One all the way!

I doubt we'll ever see higher than 110 on the GEML, sadly.

 

[Wivenswold]

My "scientific research" on TS2018 shows that Liverpool Street to Colchester in 34 minutes is possible. However, you'll need an APT with 2 power cars, Speed limits raised by 10mph between Shoreditch High Road and Chelmsford, then 130mph from Chelmsford to Colchester. Thus proving the notion of Colchester in 30 is......nonsense.

Next up, the Glacier Express using a rake of Mk4s and a Class 08.

 

[dk1]

Step One all the way!

I doubt we'll ever see higher than 110 on the GEML, sadly.

I doubt we'll ever see 110. It's only 90 Stratford-Shenfield & a mixture of 85/90 from there to Chelmsford now with the 60 restriction through that station.

 

[hexagon789]

I doubt we'll ever see 110. It's only 90 Stratford-Shenfield & a mixture of 85/90 from there to Chelmsford now with the 60 restriction through that station.

Possibly the 100 sections past Chelmsford might be able to go to 110? (That was what i meant.)

I suppose it really depends on how much the existing infrastructure would be affected and whether it's at all worth doing.