Delay Repay claim refused by GTR after hour plus delay

[gingerheid]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #10 were originally in this thread.

Myself (KGX to CBG; 1h+ delay as went via Liverpool Street) and a friend (KGX-PBO; 2h+ delay) have both had our delay repay claims refused on the basis that we were only delayed 10m!!!

 

[sc597]

Myself (KGX to CBG; 1h+ delay as went via Liverpool Street) and a friend (KGX-PBO; 2h+ delay) have both had our delay repay claims refused on the basis that we were only delayed 10m!!!

I note my 2hr+ Delay Repay claim has been reduced to a 1-2hr by GN in payment. As it took me nearly four hours to get home, am interested to find out the basis for the reduction!

 

[Failed Unit]

Myself (KGX to CBG; 1h+ delay as went via Liverpool Street) and a friend (KGX-PBO; 2h+ delay) have both had our delay repay claims refused on the basis that we were only delayed 10m!!!

That is typical GTR. I know a number of people using the key that are getting refused. They say you tapped in at 2004 (for example) and don’t consider how long you have stood on the concourse for.

How GTR continues to get away with this delay repay abuse is total unacceptable. But unfortunately GTR know they can do what they like and the government is to scared to punish them. They should have got stripped of the franchise years ago.

 

[robbeech]

I assume ‘the key’ doesn’t have a maximum journey time like Oyster. But surely they can’t use this excuse based on alternative payment methods that refuse the action they are endorsing.

Given the area is within the zones, someone using Oyster to complete the journey that had tapped in and waited ‘railside’ for 2,3,4 hours would have been penalised by being charged 2 maximum fares for a no tap out and subsequent no tap in. For GTR to go against this rule concept for the key shows exactly what sort of mind set they’re in and how they operate.

You should appeal their decision and escalate it as far as necessary. There are people on the forum that will be happy to help you do this if required.

 

[Failed Unit]

I assume ‘the key’ doesn’t have a maximum journey time like Oyster. But surely they can’t use this excuse based on alternative payment methods that refuse the action they are endorsing.

Given the area is within the zones, someone using Oyster to complete the journey that had tapped in and waited ‘railside’ for 2,3,4 hours would have been penalised by being charged 2 maximum fares for a no tap out and subsequent no tap in. For GTR to go against this rule concept for the key shows exactly what sort of mind set they’re in and how they operate.

You should appeal their decision and escalate it as far as necessary. There are people on the forum that will be happy to help you do this if required.

They normally pay out when it hits London Travelwatch. It is a shame I need to do that. What is worse if they look at my normal travel patterns I would be on the 1722 train home. It happens of course but very rarely am I travelling after 1900.

For interest as a key go user, if I had travelled via St Albans I assume I would have had a bigger fight.

Charged 1 single from WGC - London. Then another from London - St Albans.

They wouldn’t know I really didn’t want to go to St Albans. Monday has left me seriously considering is keyGO worth it. At least with a paper ticket they would accept it to St Albans. KeyGo they charge you more.... (hence why I stuck it out - along with poor information)

 

[robbeech]

You shouldn’t have to justify your travelling patterns but of course it can add weight to a claim where necessary.

Hopefully it’ll get settled. But for every person like yourself who has the knowledge to escalate it there will be multiple people who give up and more people still that simply don’t claim so they get away with it.
OT, it would be interesting to know if any TOC would be in a much different and indeed threatening financial position if they paid out all valid claims and / or all due compensation was claimed for. One assumes TOCs base a lot on the fact that so much goes unclaimed. It wouldn’t be right to speculate that they might bias their responses and refuse a few claims based on the number of claims coming in but it’s food for thought.

 

[KatieLouLou]

Regarding KeyGo - phone up the helpline and explain what happened. I expect that they'd probably refund the extra.

As regards Delay Repay claims rejected or being for a shorter period, a lot of the issue is probably because claimants enter the time of the train they actually caught, not the time of the train they intended to catch. Using the Key it generally pays to select "Other" and explain, unless it is an auto notification where you can adjust the delay length and explain why.

 

[gingerheid]

That is typical GTR. I know a number of people using the key that are getting refused. They say you tapped in at 2004 (for example) and don’t consider how long you have stood on the concourse for.

How GTR continues to get away with this delay repay abuse is total unacceptable. But unfortunately GTR know they can do what they like and the government is to scared to punish them. They should have got stripped of the franchise years ago.

These were both paper tickets.

Fraud is such an ugly word, but it's hard to understand how all instances of GTR doing things that are different to what they would do if what they were doing was correct can be innocent errors; it would be easier to understand that they were genuinely so accident prone if they also made errors that were not in their favour. I hope their handling of their PPM is more accurate than their handling of delay repay; someone should be checking they aren't making innocent little errors there too!

 

[Failed Unit]

These were both paper tickets.

Fraud is such an ugly word, but it's hard to understand how all instances of GTR doing things that are different to what they would do if what they were doing was correct can be innocent errors; it would be easier to understand that they were genuinely so accident prone if they also made errors that were not in their favour. I hope their handling of their PPM is more accurate than their handling of delay repay; someone should be checking they aren't making innocent little errors there too!

I may get into trouble for saying so. But I think GTR are deliberately obstructive with delay depay. The amounts in question are small and taking it to travel watch is time consuming. The fact I have never lost speaks volumes but considering it is normally for payment of around £8 many wonder why I bother.

I suspect GTR look at denying customers what they are entitled to in terms of compensation a good income source. Yes I do believe they are doing this to make money.

Look at their published PPM. 80%. One of the lowest on the network.

Also suspect the have a lot of 29 minutes delays recorded. I now screen shot real train times. You simply can’t trust them.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I may get into trouble for saying so. But I think GTR are deliberately obstructive with delay depay. The amounts in question are small and taking it to travel watch is time consuming.

I would agree with you on this, given that London Midland (same parent company) regularly outright lied to reject my Delay Repay claims.

 

[Failed Unit]

I wonder if anything can be done about it.

Does travel watch keep records of successful appeals? Are they measure on the % rejection ratio and someone thinks “hold on - this is a little high”

Or is this just another example of GTR can do what the want as DFT is too scared to strip the franchise from them.

 

[gingerheid]

A third person I know has also had their claim reduced.

"People I know who commute by GN" isn't the biggest or most reliable sample, but that makes 100% of the people I know who took the train that evening. I don't mind saying I regard this as suspicious. And this is an evening where the length of delays suffered was very... obvious. There is little room for confusion or "ah, but if you'd taken that train and changed there..." etc.

But what do you do? If we all complained to MPs we'd do so individually and probably to different MPs. The first step would have to be to for large numbers of people affected to find some way of getting in touch with each other.

 

[Failed Unit]

Do you remember the pressure group formed under WAGN? I am sure that will happen again if they keep doing this. This is probably the worse franchise holder it was ever had.

Worth writing to your MP. I am going to again, couple this with the timetable changes and the fact GTR ignored all consultation feedback I don’t expect this to make any difference. Hopefully this will be the last franchise GoVia ever hold.

 

[superalbs]

GTR seem to have a habit of making stuff up to get out of delay repay claims.

Don't give up, no matter what, out of principle.

 

[Failed Unit]

I see lots of compliants on Twitter about them rejecting / reducing valid claims as a result of Tuesday. I know GTR can do as they like now unfortunately, but it seems like the are taking most claims on the train people took rather than what they wanted to take. Or ignoring the fact that they didn’t want to be on the MML anyway.

 

[Hadders]

I've had an interesting one with GTR this week. Delayed by 22 minutes on the return portion of an Anytime Day Return from Stevenage to London Terminals. Ticket cost £22.00 so delay repay of £2.80 is due.

Submitted the claim, acknowledged by GTR but when I had the payment confirmation they say the ticket cost £21.40 so delay repay amount is £2.70.

Now, it's only 10p but what the hell has gone wrong here?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I've had an interesting one with GTR this week. Delayed by 22 minutes on the return portion of an Anytime Day Return from Stevenage to London Terminals. Ticket cost £22.00 so delay repay of £2.80 is due.

Submitted the claim, acknowledged by GTR but when I had the payment confirmation they say the ticket cost £21.40 so delay repay amount is £2.70.

Now, it's only 10p but what the hell has gone wrong here?

Perhaps they are, in their drive to automate everything, adding the cost of the ticket in automatically given the ticket origin and destination, type etc. - but with last year's fares values?

Yes, it's 'only' 10p but that's 10p of extra profit from innocently or otherwise understating your claim. Multiply that by the number of claims they get and that's a nice little earner. Whether it's through incompetence or malice, I don't care, it's wrong and GTR should be held to account over it.

 

[bubieyehyeh]

I've recently claimed for an exactly 30min delay, due to a late train I missed a connection and had to get the next train 30min later, which left and arrived as the timetable, and they only paid out for 15-29min delay. I can't see how they came to that confusion.

I resubmited the claim and they now claim the ticket was invalid for the journey taken, I assume because the poorly trained admin person isn't aware that you can start short on the ticket.

It is getting really annoying, and the 256 character limit for explaination on their delay repay page is really restrictive.

 

[Hadders]

GTR seem to have a habit of making stuff up to get out of delay repay claims.

Don't give up, no matter what, out of principle.

I've had an interesting one with GTR this week. Delayed by 22 minutes on the return portion of an Anytime Day Return from Stevenage to London Terminals. Ticket cost £22.00 so delay repay of £2.80 is due.

Submitted the claim, acknowledged by GTR but when I had the payment confirmation they say the ticket cost £21.40 so delay repay amount is £2.70.

Now, it's only 10p but what the hell has gone wrong here?

I complained to GTR about the discrepancy on my Delay Repay claim. The original acknowledgement stated the ticket cost £22.00 but the payment confirmation said it was £21.40. GTR left me a phone message earlier today.

It seems that they've got a fault with their Delay Repay system that regularly causes the times submitted as part of claims to get changed. This was the first time they've come across the issue affecting the price of the ticket. They are investigating further...

No wonder we have claims of GTR making things up when it comes to Delay Repay. It seems their system is doing it for them!