ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[hexagon789]

Most likely, but it depends on how long it takes for the useable parts to be stripped.
Don't forget that the 800s get introduced on the East Coast later this year...

So it might be with as a wee while yet. Is there is set date for the 800 introduction on the ECML?

 

[hexagon789]

Three HST powercars have already been scrapped - 43011 (Ladbroke Grove accident) 43019 (Ufton Nervet collision) and 43173 (Southall accident). As well as those one of the prototype powercars, 41002, was scrapped in 1990 after beind withdrawn from Departmental stock.

I meant the first one due to, essentially - age and being surplus to requirements as opposed to accident damage.

 

[mde]

I'm sorry loving HST's and all that but 43195 wont happen its been condemned as spares. 43138 has a more likely chance of revival.

Indeed - and I would never have hinted at the chance. What I did allude (and wibble to) was would 43138 face the same fate as 43195.

 

[Domh245]

Scotrail are now confirming that these are officially delayed, perhaps unsurprisingly.

 

[Ben.A.98]

Scotrail are now confirming that these are officially delayed, perhaps unsurprisingly.

Told that tonight in a public consultation with Alex Hynes. Glossed over it rather quickly.

 

[hexagon789]

Told that tonight in a public consultation with Alex Hynes. Glossed over it rather quickly.

Hardly surprising, it's been delayed that much I've forgotten the original service enary date. Was it actually the May timetable change or earlier?

 

[JohnR]

Hardly surprising, it's been delayed that much I've forgotten the original service enary date. Was it actually the May timetable change or earlier?

I seem to recall from the time of the franchise bid being announced that May 2018 was the date for full squadron service on all routes. Which even if GML electrification hadnt been delayed, always seemed ambitious to me. This had gradually slipped and slipped - not always through the fault of ScotRail I should hasten to add.

However, the problem is over-promising and under-delivering.

 

[InOban]

I don't think that in this case it's anything to do with Scotrail. A major underestimate by Wabtec of how long it would take to refurbish the coaches.

 

[mic505]

Same old, same old Wabtec. Just like the Class 458/460 conversion lol.

 

[hexagon789]

I seem to recall from the time of the franchise bid being announced that May 2018 was the date for full squadron service on all routes. Which even if GML electrification hadnt been delayed, always seemed ambitious to me. This had gradually slipped and slipped - not always through the fault of ScotRail I should hasten to add.

However, the problem is over-promising and under-delivering.

So it was May, it seems to have been delayed so often, I couldn't remember!

No, I daresay the blame isn't entirely with ScotRail.

Oh well, it's HSTs, to me it'll still be worth the wait!

 

[nat67]

Indeed - and I would never have hinted at the chance. What I did allude (and wibble to) was would 43138 face the same fate as 43195.

I wouldn't think so as it was supposed to be having a home unlike 195 which wasn't and I would guess the leasing company would want it back.

 

[nat67]

Will that be the first one scrapped then?

I would guess GWR will strip it down for parts and then like with the West Coast Brush up at Carnforth it will go the same way, maybe 125 group may salvage it if there is enough left of it.

 

[The_Engineer]

I wouldn't think so as it was supposed to be having a home unlike 195 which wasn't and I would guess the leasing company would want it back.

Yes. the point has already been made and stressed that 43138 is leased, and when returned off-lease it needs to be returned in a fully serviceable condition by the operator. There's usually a "catastrophe" clause in a lease which allows for a major damage possibility, where the insurers of the leased vehicle can write-off the vehicle if it is deemed "beyond economic repair" and the leasing company gets the insured value payment.

 

[43096]

maybe 125 group may salvage it if there is enough left of it.

I have to ask: why?

 

[hexagon789]

I would guess GWR will strip it down for parts and then like with the West Coast Brush up at Carnforth it will go the same way, maybe 125 group may salvage it if there is enough left of it.

I think they might prefer an intact power car, even if they want to fit Valentas.

 

[gordonjahn]

Sorry if I missed this - will/are the SR power cars be the same as the GWR HSTGTi ones with notch 5 locked out? Just curious.

 

[najaB]

Sorry if I missed this - will/are the SR power cars be the same as the GWR HSTGTi ones with notch 5 locked out? Just curious.

I don't know but it's a good question - I can't see why they would need it but it would be nice to have.

 

[Highlandspring]

No notches are locked out on the ScotRail powercars.

 

[hexagon789]

No notches are locked out on the ScotRail powercars.

Presumably because they will run at 100 mph a far bit of the time.

 

[hexagon789]

I don't know but it's a good question - I can't see why they would need it but it would be nice to have.

Super power!

 

[Jonny]

Sorry if I missed this - will/are the SR power cars be the same as the GWR HSTGTi ones with notch 5 locked out? Just curious.

No notches are locked out on the ScotRail powercars.

More to the point - why bother with locking notch 5 out?

 

[hexagon789]

More to the point - why bother with locking notch 5 out?

Maybe less fuel consumption, even in Notch 4 a 2+4 set will still be pretty nippy.

 

[47802]

So it was May, it seems to have been delayed so often, I couldn't remember!

No, I daresay the blame isn't entirely with ScotRail.

Oh well, it's HSTs, to me it'll still be worth the wait!

Well I think you could strongly argue that whoever placed the contract with Wabtec is to blame or if you do place a contract with Wabtec make sure you allow for adding at least 2 years to the time they actually state.

 

[hexagon789]

Well I think you could strongly argue that whoever placed the contract with Wabtec is to blame or if you do place a contract with Wabtec make sure you add at least 2 years to the time they actually state.

Well I'll agree Wabtec don't seem to be keeping to schedule very well, but they're not 2 years behind or does that refer to another refurbishment project?

 

[43096]

No notches are locked out on the ScotRail powercars.

A reliable source elsewhere says the “notch 5 locked out” on GWR is just a rumour, and an incorrect one at that.

 

[47802]

Well I'll agree Wabtec don't seem to be keeping to schedule very well, but they're not 2 years behind or does that refer to another refurbishment project?

We shall see, but I would tempted to money on the current order book of all Scotrail, XC and GWR Sets not being completed by the end of 2019.

 

[Domh245]

You'd be hard pressed to justify a 2 year delay to Wabtec's estimated schedule. You would hope that they would update their own estimating processes following large delays, and then you might put up to 6 months on top of their worst case just for peace of mind, but if you are doubting them so much that you put a 2 year buffer on it, it'd be difficult to justify

 

[hexagon789]

We shall see, but I would tempted to money on the current order book of all Scotrail, XC and GWR Sets not being completed by the end of 2019.

I think the ScotRail ones will be done by then personally and the GWR ones. I can see the XC ones being at the tail end of all that.

 

[Stopper]

Well I think you could strongly argue that whoever placed the contract with Wabtec is to blame or if you do place a contract with Wabtec make sure you allow for adding at least 2 years to the time they actually state.

I fully agree with this. Like the Hitachi 385 failure, I fail to see how anyone can say the supplier is 100% to blame. There are multiple parties involved in the wrong.

 

[43096]

You'd be hard pressed to justify a 2 year delay to Wabtec's estimated schedule. You would hope that they would update their own estimating processes following large delays, and then you might put up to 6 months on top of their worst case just for peace of mind, but if you are doubting them so much that you put a 2 year buffer on it, it'd be difficult to justify

Well, the 458/5 conversion project saw the final set delivered 91 weeks late, which is not far off 2 years delay.