Would you buy a new diesel car?

[MotCO]

Further to https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/electric-cars.163587/

"In a hybrid the wheels are driven by electric motors so there's no need for a changeable gearbox. If someone produced one with a gear lever then it would be no more than a software simulation of the effect of a manual gearbox.

Which is interesting because it must mean if you do your test on an electric vehicle it counts as an automatic so you aren't licensed to drive manual transmissions. Most people would want their kids to have the flexibility to drive anything, so that's another reason for families to have an electric as a second car or not at all."

Given the push towards electric cars of various types, would you contemplate buyng a new diesel car?

 

[AM9]

Within a few years, an electric car might be the only viable option for new drivers, particularly as many new drivers are leaving it until they are nearly 30 before starting to drive. As has been said on the other thread, driving polluting cars will get increasingly more expensive and so less likely to interest younger people.

 

[gazthomas]

Yes, just have done. It can do 700 miles on a tank and with AdBlue the emissions are “relatively” good. Zero emission electric cars are only that if powered by nuclear or renewables. My next car will be electric if it can do 500 miles (I don’t fancy walking it ) but maybe we’ll all be hailing autonous vehicles by then!

 

[ComUtoR]

Bought a 2l Diesel just last year. Emissions (109 co2 g/km) and MPG were lower than my 1.3 petrol. If my car was available as a hybrid I may have considered it. I considered a Tesla but I have way to many issues with them. The next one I will be taking a closer look at Electric but that will easily be 5/6 years away as this one will last quite some time and electric may be more mainstream and evolved to a point where it becomes a sensible decision.

 

[dgl]

If i could drive then yes, if the running costs stacked up. Plus Bosch have been working on new technology surrounding the ECU that seems to drastically cut NOx figures even in real world tests so I see a future for diesel yet.

 

[EssexGonzo]

No.

It depends on what you mean by "bought".

85% of retail cars and 98% of company/business sector cars are leased or bought on PCP. The finance company takes the residual risk so as long as you're happy with the numbers, and you're doing 15k+ miles per year (generalisation) no reason not to. Had the car i've just bought been a company car, diesel would have been the best choice.

But if you're one of the 15% using your own cash or an old school loan - and you're taking the residual risk yourself - probably not a wide decision.

Sentiment against diesels is growing and sentiment drives the market and therefore residuals. Diesel cars are still being leased in their thousands and in 2/3/4 years time there will be a glut on the market along with more market sentiment against them.

My wife bought a Lexus Hybrid with her own cash last year - a 5 to 7 year purchase - as a £45k diesel car in 7 years time would have been too much of a risk, and at too much risk of being taxed / penalised by tolls in the meantime, therefore very difficult to get out of.

Diesel is still the best engine for a large car / SUV but unless you're leasing, its too much of a risk to put your own cash into it.

 

[Warwick]

"Would I buy a new diesel car"?
If I was driving at least 45,000 miles per year probably yes. Otherwise the cost just isn't worth it. Modern petrol powered vehicles are capable of astonishing fuel consumption figures, not as good as the best diesels but given the higher price of the vehicle and the fuel a lot of miles have to be covered to recover the outlay. My eight or so thousand miles a year wouldn't repay me getting a diesel.

 

[thejuggler]

No because my annual mileage doesn't warrant it.

Almost 10 years ago I went from a 20-25,000 a year driver to doing about 8,000. I had just bought a year old diesel and within 12 months of owning it it was suffering due to lack of miles.

DPF constantly regenerating leading to 5,000 mile oil changes and it needed a new EGR at about 15,000 miles.

I traded for a petrol and have had no issues with either of the petrols I have had since. For short journeys the diesel was no better than a modern petrol around town.

We have just had a B class 180d courtesy car and I wouldn't want one. My previous three diesels were all automatics and I had forgotten why I avoided manuals. The need to change gear constantly to keep in the torque band, it was also very noisy in the cabin.

For 8,000 a year I don't mind 30mpg average mpg.

We also have a second car, a new petrol Yaris 1.5. It does mid 40s around town and I have seen 62 on a decent A road run. The same as the B class.

 

[whhistle]

But if you're one of the 15% using your own cash or an old school loan - and you're taking the residual risk yourself - probably not a wide (sic) decision.

Please always remember to cite sources...

I have never not owned my own vehicle.

I rarely see how and why PCP or similar makes any sort of sense. You pay £250 a month for what, 4 years? Then have an option to buy it at near the original market value, or return it. Plus a fairly large deposit to begin with, so you nearly pay twice as much over the length of time or have no car at the end of the term.

Yes, sometimes you have no bills or MOT with PCP but £40 a year isn't hurting the bank. And there's no guarantee a car will cost anything to repair either.

Would I buy a new diesel?
If I was in the market for a brand new vehicle, probably not as petrol vehicle tax for new cars is pretty low.

But as the poster above says, depends what I'd be using it for.
Long distances - diesel. Let's face it, I can get more mileage from a diesel when taking into account the cost of fuel compared with petrol.

 

[507021]

I wouldn't buy a new diesel, I don't do enough miles.

When I replace my current car (a diesel, no DPF), I'm looking at a petrol or possibly a hybrid.

 

[whhistle]

Read online the other day about stats being skewed anyway as do they take into account the fuel burn rate? IE, you get many more miles from a tank of diesel than petrol.

 

[Domh245]

Read online the other day about stats being skewed anyway as do they take into account the fuel burn rate? IE, you get many more miles from a tank of diesel than petrol.

What sort of stats? And besides, most stats are done on a 'per mile' basis where practical

 

[alxndr]

Which is interesting because it must mean if you do your test on an electric vehicle it counts as an automatic so you aren't licensed to drive manual transmissions. Most people would want their kids to have the flexibility to drive anything, so that's another reason for families to have an electric as a second car or not at all."

Do most kids actually drive their parents' car when learning these days? It wasn't something we considered when I was living at home and learning, and it wasn't an option the second time I started learning as no one would insure my partner to supervise with her being under 25. I don't think it made a difference.

Even if someone still did want to get practice in, they could have lessons in a manual with an instructor, and take the test with an instructor, but have some more hours learning the roads in their parents auto. Nothing to say what car you have to practise in, just what you have to do the test in.

But no, I wouldn't buy a diesel. I wouldn't buy an electric either though.

 

[Domh245]

I learnt to drive on (and when I drive it's mostly what I drive in) my dad's car, a 2004 Vauxhall Meriva. Indeed when he bought it, it was with the intention of being something of a learner car for me and my sister, there were some scratches and dings on it, and it has a 1.6 petrol with a 5 speed manual gearbox. Quite the downgrade from the last car that he'd had for a long period of time before that, which was a 3.0l Mercedes 300E!

I think I did 3 or 4 sessions with a driving instructor in their car before doing my practical test.

 

[cjmillsnun]

"Would I buy a new diesel car"?
If I was driving at least 45,000 miles per year probably yes. Otherwise the cost just isn't worth it. Modern petrol powered vehicles are capable of astonishing fuel consumption figures, not as good as the best diesels but given the higher price of the vehicle and the fuel a lot of miles have to be covered to recover the outlay. My eight or so thousand miles a year wouldn't repay me getting a diesel.

A diesel makes sense at above 15k a year.

For me (I do 25k miles a year) a diesel is the only option. Euro 6 Diesel engines have to pass the same NOx tests as petrol and even petrol cars are likely to have a particulate filter at some point. When other manufacturers can produce an electric with a battery that is as good as a Tesla at reasonable cost to buy I will be interested.

 

[Warwick]

Read online the other day about stats being skewed anyway as do they take into account the fuel burn rate? IE, you get many more miles from a tank of diesel than petrol.

Yes, but diesel is more expensive. What has to be weighed is the extra cost of fuel versus increased mileage per annum. Diesel economics only work if a high annual mileage is being covered.

 

[MotCO]

Yes, but diesel is more expensive. What has to be weighed is the extra cost of fuel versus increased mileage per annum. Diesel economics only work if a high annual mileage is being covered.

I'm not sure diesel per litre is much more expensive than petrol these days. The fuel consumption is much better in a diesel; the real extra costs I think come from additional maintenance requirements.

 

[AM9]

A diesel makes sense at above 15k a year.
When other manufacturers can produce an electric with a battery that is as good as a Tesla at reasonable cost to buy I will be interested.

Unless legislation that restricts the scope of diesel car usage and/or the cost of owning/running one per time or per mile makes it more expensive than other powered vehicles.

 

[bnm]

With a potential award of the enhanced rate mobility component of Personal Independence Payment, I've been looking at the wide range of vehicles in the Motability Scheme.

With no purchase price, insurance or tax to worry about should I consider diesel? I do about 12000 miles a year. By my reckoning, looking at the mpg of identical spec'd cars, the diesel at 65mpg and the petrol at 50mpg, the diesel is around £300 a year less to fuel.

 

[AM9]

With a potential award of the enhanced rate mobility component of Personal Independence Payment, I've been looking at the wide range of vehicles in the Motability Scheme.

With no purchase price, insurance or tax to worry about should I consider diesel? I do about 12000 miles a year. By my reckoning, looking at the mpg of identical spec'd cars, the diesel at 65mpg and the petrol at 50mpg, the diesel is around £300 a year less to fuel.

65mpg is only achievable when fully warmed-up and cruising. When I used to travle 11 miles to work, it took over half the journey to bring the engine up to a normal temperature. Until that, the car was less responsive, lacked power and used more fuel so a simple comparison is only valid for cwertain types of journey. In addition to that, diesel engines require more expensive scheduled maintenance.

 

[bnm]

65mpg is only achievable when fully warmed-up and cruising. When I used to travle 11 miles to work, it took over half the journey to bring the engine up to a normal temperature. Until that, the car was less responsive, lacked power and used more fuel so a simple comparison is only valid for cwertain types of journey. In addition to that, diesel engines require more expensive scheduled maintenance.

With a Motability lease the scheduled maintenance is included. And vehicles are replaced every three years.

I've also looked at some 'real world' figures for the two engines I have under consideration. The diesel is 51mpg, the petrol 37mpg. Still saves me over £300 a year choosing diesel.

 

[JohnMcL7]

I used to drive diesels but now a petrol because I disliked how diesels have gone from simple and reliable to extremely complex and less reliable. I was very careful with my last diesel car even going as far as taking up cycling to avoid short trips but I still had a DPF sensor fail which crippled the car meaning I had to do the 1,000 mile drive the next day in a Yaris 1.33 auto. It also had EGR valve issues at one point and even when it was running fine it seemed to be getting increasingly inconsistent performance wise which I assume was down to more frequent regeneration of the DPF.

I changed to a straight non-turbo petrol with similar power output and the VED is a bit of a killer although the fuel efficiency difference isn't as much as I thought, the petrol on paper is quite low but it's very consistent whereas the diesel was all over the place again I assume down to DPF regeneration so its real world efficiency wasn't as good as it looked on paper. In the four year period, the diesel had quite a few repair bills whereas the petrol hasn't needed a penny spent on the engine, it's not just the cost either as the DPF sensor that failed was only a £100 job but it meant the car was unusable and I had the hassle and costs to get a hire car instead.

I'm hoping the diesel backlash will lead to more petrol options as when I chose my current car (big estate), the petrols were pretty much just for entry level models or super sporty models whereas I was looking for a decent spec with a petrol but nothing too silly. I buy second hand and diesels just dominate this part of the market at the moment, I don't think I'd consider one now unless I had to be driving a lot more miles.

 

[Tom B]

As diesels become less attractive on the second hand market, I assume they will become cheaper and therefore more attractive to those on a lower budget.

The issues surrounding complexity are not exclusive to diesel - most modern cars are very difficult to work on and rely on you paying the garage to do even the simplest of jobs.

 

[Welly]

I use my petrol car mostly to commute to and from work which does not exceed 10,000 miles per year so no I won't have a diesel car.

I don't like driving diesel cars as I have to change gears a lot , the noise is not attractive and the diesel pumps are always covered with oily slime that makes my hands smell really bad - we keep a box of medical gloves in the pool car at work to keep our hands clean when we tank it up!

 

[GB]

Not sure I see the link between changing gears a lot and diesel.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yes, but it isn't so much "bought" as paid for individual uses... and it isn't "new" but it is younger than me (just!)... oh, and unlike most cars it has extra wheels and lacks rubber tyres.

 

[Lucan]

No, not a newer one (I have an older one which is fine). Car owners' forums have been giving some nightmare reports from people with new diesels, due to the ever-tightening regulations. Here is a quote from jeep-club.co.uk :-

"The newer EU6 diesel ingenium engine on the 2017 Evoque onwards, has been eating adblue (a lot more than anticipated), and also due to the more burn cycles required under EU6 has been putting fuel paritculate into the engine oil a lot faster than normal, thus contaminating (diluting the oil) very quickly, which now means the car is warning the driver to get oil filter and oil changed, some in under 6 months of ownership. The remedy by Range Rover is to cover these engine problems by paying for the consumables while under warranty. But after that the owners have to pay for adblue and by the looks of it , lots of oil and filter changes."

 

[D365]

Not sure I see the link between changing gears a lot and diesel.

Diesel cars, in my experience, are generally nicer to drive than petrol equivalents. Higher torque and more comfortable at cruising speeds.

 

[muz379]

Dont do enough mileage to warrant a diesel . And even if I did I dont think I would buy at the moment with the anti diesel sentiment and the uncertainty about the long term taxation environment for diesel cars . I would however lease one if the running costs stacked up heavily in favour .

I rarely see how and why PCP or similar makes any sort of sense. You pay £250 a month for what, 4 years? Then have an option to buy it at near the original market value, or return it. Plus a fairly large deposit to begin with, so you nearly pay twice as much over the length of time or have no car at the end of the term.

It depends on your outlook on car ownership and what you desire . But if you want a new car say every 2/3 years leasing and PCP can make sense if you shop around . Shopping around you can find deals that take you very close to paying just what the value of depreciation will be on the car . After all regardless of how you finance a car the value of it depreciates over time and the biggest chunk of depreciation is said to be in that first three years of ownership , If you lease you then make the future value of the car someone else's problem , and the risk on the future value of the car someone else's problem . I bet lots of people who leased VW diesels which later came out to be involved in the emissions cheating scandal happily handed the cars back to the leasing company safe in the knowledge that they avoided losing a ton of money .

 

[Warwick]

Not sure I see the link between changing gears a lot and diesel.

You should be able to change gear less in a diesel powered car as the torque is higher. On my 1.9 diesel Golf I reckoned to have it in 5th by 20 mph.