Class 365s to Scotrail

[D365]

ASAP, I would imagine.

 

[mde]

Is there strength to the quoted number of 10? Doesn’t seem quite right as presumably at least 1 unit will be out of service each day?

I guess the assumption is the 6x 380 will still be available each day, but that would require 100% availability from the 365 fleet to make every E&G service a double unit.

I'd have thought they'd be keen to remove the 380s in order to start the removal of 314s (e.g. returning them to their previous diagrams as a start), but, perhaps that'll need to wait.

Either way, a surprising story from Al Dalton, I was expecting some quotes about cast offs.

 

[jopsuk]

! ! ! ! i'm happy to hear you guys are pretty positive about the 365's and i gotta say i am too!

how is the comfort inside the 365's ? as a longish route E and G traveler who does it lots of days i guess it'll be important? and what features do the 365's have?

In terms of time, the Edinburgh-Glasgow express service takes about as long as Kings Cross-Cambridge (the latter is a longer distance with no stops). However they longer services- King's Cross to King's Lynn is about two hours. They're comfortable enough for that.

 

[LowLevel]

Hopefully Scotrail can come to some agreement with the unions about how they will be operated (regarding the doors as I would imagine the preferred method would be for Driver release, guard to signal to close via the bells method [unless the door control module in the other cabs can be modified to be live]).

A good fit for the Edinburgh - Glasgow Queen Street route, nice interiors and a good motor noise

I can't imagine they will be difficult to crew operate - they were guard operated with Connex South Eastern for a number of years.

 

[ainsworth74]

I can't imagine they will be difficult to crew operate - they were guard operated with Connex South Eastern for a number of years.

Presumably it'll depend on if some fool has removed that equipment in the interim. Which would seem rather a poor choice but I wouldn't put it past their various operators over the years since then! Even the brand new Thameslink 700s which are never ever likely to see a guard doing doors have door controls at various vestibules in the train as seen here:

Images show door controls contained within a cabinet in a 700 vestibule.

Credit to @fincra on Twitter.

 

[scotraildriver]

Driver opens doors as per the 380's and the guard will close from an intermediate cab. (Or rear cab if a 4 car set ends up in use).

 

[ainsworth74]

Driver opens doors as per the 380's and the guard will close from an intermediate cab. (Or rear cab if a 4 car set ends up in use).

Sounds eminently sensible!

 

[Clansman]

365s can’t couple to 380s, so no opportunity to mix and match. And unless you eliminate 380 operation on E&G then you can’t reinstate First Class.

There's no chance ScotRail would ever reinstate first class on EG until the 385s are in full swing. Employee's response to the dire attempt to put first class on the 380s probably emphasises this (and rightly so!).

 

[jamieP]

I can't imagine they will be difficult to crew operate - they were guard operated with Connex South Eastern for a number of years.

They still have the guards switch in the cabs. Not sure tho if it allows you to close the doors whilst the driver has his key in tho. Never needed to find out. A lot of units don't have working bells tho.

 

[gsnedders]

Is there strength to the quoted number of 10? Doesn’t seem quite right as presumably at least 1 unit will be out of service each day?

I guess the assumption is the 6x 380 will still be available each day, but that would require 100% availability from the 365 fleet to make every E&G service a double unit.

365s can’t couple to 380s, so no opportunity to mix and match. And unless you eliminate 380 operation on E&G then you can’t reinstate First Class.

Having most but not all E&G services double would still be an improvement, though, especially when the doubles will be longer than the previous stock.

 

[hexagon789]

Driver opens doors as per the 380's and the guard will close from an intermediate cab. (Or rear cab if a 4 car set ends up in use).

Glad they've decided on that so quickly

 

[Mingulay]

Good effort to get these stand in trains relocated as a stop gap. Will there be sufficient to cover the loss of diesels going off lease? Clearly Edinburgh Glasgow is the priority. But on my Dunblane service we will continue to rely on DMU . The service has been by recent standards pretty robust this past 8 weeks , few delays or cancellations or short forming.

However this past few days it seems to be slipping back. My last 5 Train use over 3 days all were either cancelled or short formed and brutally overcrowded . I wonder if the problem is beginning to bite

I was at a business seminar last week where Alex Hynes was speaker. Impressive and good speaker. Lot of optimism and confidence shown. Capable man. I asked about the 385 issue as he omitted any reference to it in his very upbeat summary of Scotrail. He was coy and just said a statement soon and but they will be in service this year. Spin ? But that it will be 2020 before all current rolling stock deliveries will be complete

 

[Stopper]

The Dunblane services can be overcrowded but not even close to the level of the E-G ones. When the peak Dunblane services are 4/5 cars they’re usually only full between Linlithgow and Edinburgh. However a short formed 2 or 3 car service can be bursting by the time it arrives at Linlithgow.

 

[Fincra5]

They still have the guards switch in the cabs. Not sure tho if it allows you to close the doors whilst the driver has his key in tho. Never needed to find out. A lot of units don't have working bells tho.

I'd imagine Scotrail would fix any Broken Bells.

 

[D7666]

There's a certain symmetry here.

Once upon a time, the locomotives from the Great Northern commuter line into London moved north and became the motive power on the Edinburgh - Glasgow expresses for a few years.

Those beautiful beautiful locos were the Class 27s and they are part of the Good Old Days (along with large logo 37s and ScotRail liveried 47/7s). Ah, happy days, before we learnt to dismiss any cascaded trains as "London cast-offs" and jump to conclusions. seems fitting that the 365s are following in the footsteps of the 27s - makes sense.

pedant that I am, I have to point out the statement about GN commuter line is wrong.

GN had 26s not 27s.

Glas Edin had 27s not 26s.

It is true many 27s originally allocated to English sheds, and most if not all the 27/1 27/2 conversions were ex-England, none were ever GN based.

26s, that were exGN, were unsuitable being 75/80 mph maximum.

--
Nick

 

[PYROOGOBBO]

I know this wont happen, but considering it could be a really easy thing to do with a few stickers, how about putting the 365's in a reverse scot rail saltire livery

like white with blue, instead of the usual blue with white

i reckon that maybe with some tinted headlights would look super awesome

 

[mde]

i reckon that maybe with some tinted headlights would look super awesome

Tinted headlights?!

 

[PYROOGOBBO]

Tinted headlights?!

just thought it'd give the train a bit more of a fresher look

or least something like the 92's have, with the darker headlights, really worked for it

 

[hexagon789]

I know this wont happen, but considering it could be a really easy thing to do with a few stickers, how about putting the 365's in a reverse scot rail saltire livery

like white with blue, instead of the usual blue with white

While I often bemoan the lack of variety with ScotRail's livery choices, I imagine ScotRail will want the 365s to match up with the rest of the fleet as much as possible abd thus stick with the existing Saltire livery.

To be honest I'm not even sure if they plan a full re-paint/re-vinyling.

 

[43096]

just thought it'd give the train a bit more of a fresher look

You do realise that headlights are safety critical pieces of kit and not the equivalent of purple downlighters on a chav-mobile?

 

[delt1c]

I know this wont happen, but considering it could be a really easy thing to do with a few stickers, how about putting the 365's in a reverse scot rail saltire livery

like white with blue, instead of the usual blue with white

i reckon that maybe with some tinted headlights would look super awesome

There is a very good reason for the livery, to reverse the colors would go against this. Think about it

 

[SteveyBee131]

I know this wont happen, but considering it could be a really easy thing to do with a few stickers, how about putting the 365's in a reverse scot rail saltire livery

like white with blue, instead of the usual blue with white

i reckon that maybe with some tinted headlights would look super awesome

Well, I noticed you was just having some light-hearted fun and good imagination

Why can't more people lighten up!

 

[tbtc]

pedant that I am, I have to point out the statement about GN commuter line is wrong.

GN had 26s not 27s.

Glas Edin had 27s not 26s.

It is true many 27s originally allocated to English sheds, and most if not all the 27/1 27/2 conversions were ex-England, none were ever GN based.

26s, that were exGN, were unsuitable being 75/80 mph maximum.

--
Nick

Apologies Nick - you are correct - my memory was playing tricks, or maybe it was getting carried away with poetic licence - with the "new" trains for Edinburgh - Glasgow being cascaded from the Great Northern, I mis-remembered a previous generation's trains as being the same - I spent enough time on 26s and 27s back in the day - I should have remembered the differences better!

Going off topic (sorry), but I can't imagine the new Great Northern trains (700s) having the Indian Summer on the Kyle Line (etc) that the 26s enjoyed in my youth... happier times!

I know this wont happen, but considering it could be a really easy thing to do with a few stickers, how about putting the 365's in a reverse scot rail saltire livery

like white with blue, instead of the usual blue with white

There is a very good reason for the livery, to reverse the colors would go against this. Think about it

I dunno - it works well on the Nova Scotia flag! Maybe a lion rampant on the yellow front ends?

 

[gordonjahn]

I saw it reported this week that part of the reason for road transport north was so the 365s could have work done on the steps as they’d foul.

Has any one seen the ClearRoute output - is this just caused by the Winchburgh tunnel where the six-foot isn’t (at 1.6m/5ft 3in)?

 

[Chris Hamilton]

There is a very good reason for the livery, to reverse the colors would go against this. Think about it

God forbid we should use a different colour scheme on anything in Scotland. I don’t recall BRITISH Rail trains ever being red, white and blue (outside of NSE). Why? Because I don’t need a flag to be painted on every single flat surface on the network to be reminded where I live.

So yeah, add a bit of variety and reverse the colour scheme, because they are on a short lease and a certainly not going to be fully re-covered.

 

[mde]

God forbid we should use a different colour scheme on anything in Scotland. I don’t recall BRITISH Rail trains ever being red, white and blue (outside of NSE). Why? Because I don’t need a flag to be painted on every single flat surface on the network to be reminded where I live.

So yeah, add a bit of variety and reverse the colour scheme, because they are on a short lease and a certainly not going to be fully re-covered.

Oh for goodness sake - must we have another debate about the livery being a flag? This one's been done to death several times.

I think you've hit the nail on the head in any case - the units aren't likely to be on a long lease, and, with the need to press them into service fairly swiftly, there is perhaps more important work to be done than a trip to the vinyl shop. SR have proved fairly adept with seasonal logo vinyls on the 170s, so, that is something they could do with minimal fuss.

 

[delt1c]

God forbid we should use a different colour scheme on anything in Scotland. I don’t recall BRITISH Rail trains ever being red, white and blue (outside of NSE). Why? Because I don’t need a flag to be painted on every single flat surface on the network to be reminded where I live.

So yeah, add a bit of variety and reverse the colour scheme, because they are on a short lease and a certainly not going to be fully re-covered.

Why should Scotland not be proud of the Saltire? The colors have been adopted for a fine looking livery. Yes NSE used red white and blue and it looked good. TFL have stuck with (almost ) all over red on the buses and again it looks good and gives Londoners a sense of pride.

 

[hexagon789]

God forbid we should use a different colour scheme on anything in Scotland. I don’t recall BRITISH Rail trains ever being red, white and blue (outside of NSE). Why? Because I don’t need a flag to be painted on every single flat surface on the network to be reminded where I live.

Well there was the ScotRail Express livery with Caledonian blue stripe from about 1985-1990.

But that was quite subtle, I think I've just gotten used to the whole livery thing by now (finally).

In all honestly I think I now agree with what others are saying, getting the stock in service is far more important than the colour scheme.

 

[mde]

Well there was the ScotRail Express livery with Caledonian blue stripe from about 1985-1990.

It could of course be ironic that there is an 'express' logo on the 385 version of the SpotRail livery…

 

[hexagon789]

It could of course be ironic that there is an 'express' logo on the 385 version of the SpotRail livery…

You know until you mentioned that, I never noticed! I think the 385s would look nice in the Inter7City livery, ditto the 365s if they get kept on.