Why are we all so negative about our railways?

[daccer]

It has struck me over the last year or so that there is an overriding sense of negativity pervading the public's attitude towards the UK's railway network.

I havent lived in the Uk for a few years but went back last year and did an ALR and was very impressed with the system overall. Obviously there are areas of concern and much still to be done but even the most one eyed pessimist must agree things are getting better.

I know it it a curiously English attitude to run down the country as a whole and the railways in particular however I believe that much of the criticism simply doesnt tally with the facts. At the moment this is the situation as i see it.

Usage is at record levels and continues to grow despite economic pressure
Investment continues apace - mega projects are now common and HS2 and electrification seem to be next in line.
Train punctuality is on an inexorable climb and so is the number of trains running. We are seeing figures of 93% in some months,
We have a politician in Lord Adonis running the railways who actually believes in the system and is very proactive.
We have a system that most countries would die for - it isnt by anyways complete or in perfect nick but the basis is there for a great system.
People complain about the cost of the system and tickets in general but the average price per ticket is only 4 quid. For every expensive turn up and go ticket there is a very cheap advance ticket available.
We still have much to do but passenger satisfaction figures are around 80% so it cant be as bad as some make out.

So my question is twofold: why are we so negative about the railways and if we are right to be negative then what can we do to change this situation. many of the arguments are tired and worn out so if anyone has fresh views on how to change the perception of the railways firstly and also to address issues that need to see change please feel free to make ur point.

As for me I did a week on a variety of trains in all parts of the countries - it was universally good, sometimes excellent and even were the service was a little rough around the edges plans were in place to improve it - compared to BR in the 80's I thought the system was in good nick.

 

[JustinStacey.x]

I'm not... I always find ways to counter people's theories when they say our railways and public transport sucks. It's actually not bad... and I loved it in london.

 

[90019]

It's Britain, and British people like to complain about everything.

 

[monkey]

...I'm in two minds about this. on the one hand, things have improved massively, and most people completely ignore this fact and forget that br, had severe flaws such as the fact it was starved of investment. on the other hand there are some terrible part of the railways, that seem to still lack improvement and also the fact that their are probs with the franchising system.

I think on the whole it has improved, so maybe that should be acknowledged, but I don't think we should stop scrutinising the railways...

 

[GB]

It's Britain, and British people like to complain about everything

I think I'd probably agree with that.

People also complain alot when engineering works takes place that are affecting their journey, I bet these are the first people to complain when their joureny is delayed because of a broken rail or "bump in the track".

 

[ivanhoe]

There is a general malaise, much of which is perpetrated by our media, in the UK.
Public Transport in general has suffered from successive Governments in terms of planning etc and it is a sad fact that DfT has been pro road for a number of decades. Our railways are in reasonable shape given the decades of under investment and Government meddling. However, like the NHS, Public Transport gets a bad press and chooses to ignore the many positives. Still a way to go but it is not in terminal decline!

 

[northwichcat]

Punctuality’s good because of extra recovery time since privatisation, but even without that it's quite good compared to BR days. However, we've still got a long way to catch up the Swiss standard of punctuality, where your train may only be late one time in twenty years and even then it's less than 5 minutes late - at least that's what a Swiss man interviewed by BBC News a few years ago said.

 

[The Planner]

Ah, but do the Swiss run 20 000+ trains a day ??

 

[nedchester]

Ah, but do the Swiss run 20 000+ trains a day ??

Obviously not because Switzerland is a smaller country so that is a silly argument. However, their approach to public transport (not just railways) is second to none.

 

[northwichcat]

Ah, but do the Swiss run 20 000+ trains a day ??

On that basis would an expanded US railway system mean that they could run 93% of trains less than 25 minutes late and it would be as good as our system?

 

[me123]

It's Britain, and British people like to complain about everything.

That's the jist of it, although I would also add that there's a realm of exaggeration, for example if a train is five minutes late once a month a commuter may say "My trains are always late, I'm never on time for work, the rail service is a f***ing disgrace!". And no matter what the prices are, they're ridiculously expensive.

The media are almost solely to blame in my opinion, and not just for the railways, for everything else. Positive stories are buried in the back or ignored because scandals and negative stories sell more papers. The Glasgow Herald (a respectable paper, but a rag when it comes to railways) recently ran an series exposing the failures of Scotland's railways. Of course, Scotrail are a great company so there's little to report on. But the articles focussed on the negatives; they moaned about Perth-Edinburgh trains were busy and slow, but failed to acknowledge that they'd actually been increased in frequency over the past year. They moaned about the Fife Circle LHCS, but failed to acknowledge that it actually increased capacity in the peak times for Fife. They also failed to mention Glasgow Airport Rail Link, Airdire-Bathgate, new rolling stock...

 

[j0hn0]

As always in these matters, I would guess that a regular commuter on the WCML would have more to complain about than most.

Yes they're an improvement on BR in terms of investment, but that really wasn't going to be hard. Most rolling stock was up for renewal so I think it may paint a false picture in terms of the newer trains idea.

The channel tunnel and HS1 are the only major investment projects that concern infrastructure. I dont count west coast and east coast upgrades as they are just make do and mend without significant loading gauge enhancements.

Britain needs longer trains, larger trains and more trains just to cope with demand for freight and passengers.

So in truth I am negative about trains because commuting on a packed emu or dmu in yorkshire or warwickshire sucks, every long distance journey I've taken has usually included "connections" of up to 45 minutes, and the trains are just too small and uncomfortable.

 

[nedchester]

Service levels are much better than they were although many of the new trains are too short. Long distance (and many local) services need to be at least 8 coaches long. I question whether running lots of 2 car units all over the place at frequent intervals is not just clogging up the network. Lack of compatibility between units doesn't help in the event of failure. Maybe longer services at hourly intervals would be better (more at peak times).

Fares are also far too pricey and the complex system of tickets and restrictions doesn't help either a network railcard would go a long way to helping improve the system.

Germany or Switzerland would be an example of how a railway should be run.

 

[tbtc]

It's understandable that "the public" are negative about the railways, they're negative about *everything*. You'd think TV was 99% repeats, that every politician had claimed for a duck island, that every criminal is let out of jail after serving ten minutes "time", that it always rains, that... people in this country complain about EVERYTHING - I should know, I work in Complaints

However, what I don't understand is why Rail enthusiasts are always complaining about improvements!

 

[90019]

However, what I don't understand is why Rail enthusiasts are always complaining about improvements!

Infestation of rose tinted specs?

 

[krus_aragon]

No we are not negative about railways! (end negativity)

I agree that there's a lot of reporting the bad and ignoring the good, but sometimes there are shortages of sanity and initiative.

I daytripped to Cardiff yesterday, coming back on the 1934 departure, all stops(!) to Holyhead. After the usual late-night stand at Chester waiting for connections from Liverpool, Manchester, etc, we stopped for ten minutes at both Shotton and Flint. The guard explained as we arrived at each station that this was due to engineering work (which hadn't actually started yet), and was quite forthcoming about the inconvenience: he said the driver would be sacked if he passed the red light, and suggested that any smokers could quickly nip off the platform if they wanted.

When the guard told us of the second delay at Flint, there was a collective groan in the carriage. Yet when I checked my watch, we would still be on time for our arrival into Llandudno Junction: the delay had been timetabled and accounted for on our advance tickets! I still can't guess why we had to stand at two different stations for ten minutes. Everyone would have been happier if we were told on leaving Chester what to expect; perhaps the guard hadn't been told.

No relevant engineering work is mentioned on the NR website, but tonight's corresponding service (22:56 ex Chester) is working to the same well padded timetable, with 25 minutes allocated to the five miles. The delay may be unavoidable, but good communication always helps.

 

[Oswyntail]

.....Yes they're an improvement on BR in terms of investment, but that really wasn't going to be hard.....

I think that is actually a myth. In capital investment terms, before the notorious freeze on new train orders, BR was doing quite well in this respect. ECML electrification, Networkers, Sprinters [sh]Pacers[/sh] 317/8/9/20/21 etc were all part of an expensive investment programme in the latter years of BR. Investment in infrastructure in real terms was also comparable. What we tend to forget is that the big post-privatisation investment projects represent a post-Hatfield catching up, because Railtrack stopped rolling improvements and regular maintenance (which is why Hatfield caused such a huge problem). The "increase in investment" so loudly trumpeted tends to be in the consultancy, planning and legal fees inherent in franchising as set up.
And of course it is much easier to have high standards in Switzerland which is much less complex than GB.

 

[jon0844]

I have to say that the recovery time is possibly one reason people moan - without realising that their train isn't actually arriving late.

Over the years, I've heard many people moaning about coming in late to King's Cross (when waiting for a platform) when the reason it's waiting is because it's early. Few people obviously realise what time the train is scheduled to arrive and just associate the odd delay here and there (such as waiting to cross on to the fast line, which in turn means the train is much quicker) as the rail network being slow, full of delays etc.

 

[daccer]

I think Network Rail will end up being a world class business which is what they are aiming for. Of course they inherited a mess and have dropped the ball a few times but they are on a learning curve like everybody else.

I think that BR is not the correct benchmark as that was a different age and there were different expectations of the railways then.

With regards to the railways post Railtrack we have seen a lot of developments and major infrastructure work undertaken and the pace is picking up - again it isnt perfect but Rome wasnt built in a day and surely all the indicators are going the right way which means something is being done right.

 

[nedchester]

I think that is actually a myth. In capital investment terms, before the notorious freeze on new train orders, BR was doing quite well in this respect. ECML electrification, Networkers, Sprinters [sh]Pacers[/sh] 317/8/9/20/21 etc were all part of an expensive investment programme in the latter years of BR. Investment in infrastructure in real terms was also comparable. What we tend to forget is that the big post-privatisation investment projects represent a post-Hatfield catching up, because Railtrack stopped rolling improvements and regular maintenance (which is why Hatfield caused such a huge problem). The "increase in investment" so loudly trumpeted tends to be in the consultancy, planning and legal fees inherent in franchising as set up.
And of course it is much easier to have high standards in Switzerland which is much less complex than GB.

Yes BR was alarmingly efficient for the money that it got.

I have often argued that if the money that is put into all the bits and pieces of the railway now was put into a unified system then the money would be more wisely spent and the passenger would benefit.

 

[Metroland]

The British (and a lot of western cultures) are negative about everything, especially other people, large companies and governments. IE anything they don't directly control themselves, and even when they do, its someone else's fault. What comes of living in a complex society, driven by media based perceptions.

 

[Nigel Gresley]

Punctuality’s good because of extra recovery time since privatisation, but even without that it's quite good compared to BR days. However, we've still got a long way to catch up the Swiss standard of punctuality, where your train may only be late one time in twenty years and even then it's less than 5 minutes late - at least that's what a Swiss man interviewed by BBC News a few years ago said.

Actually the Swiss standard isn't quite as good as that yet.

The thick lines on the graph are the targets and the thin lines show that these are being achieved:

Blue - less than 2 minutes late
Brown - Less than 3 minutes late
Green - less than 5 minutes late