Manchester to London via Leeds

[cheadle_cherry]

Hi,

I'm travelling from London Euston to Manchester on Thursday evening (off peak). On Saturday morning I am then travelling from Manchester to Leeds and on Saturday evening travelling from Leeds back to London.

Would the following tickets cover my journey
1) Off peak return London to Manchester
2) Single Manchester to Leeds? (rail-replacement bus)

Or would I need to buy 2 singles, London to Manchester and Leeds to London?

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hi,

I'm travelling from London Euston to Manchester on Thursday evening (off peak). On Saturday morning I am then travelling from Manchester to Leeds and on Saturday evening travelling from Leeds back to London.

Would the following tickets cover my journey
1) Off peak return London to Manchester
2) Single Manchester to Leeds? (rail-replacement bus)

Or would I need to buy 2 singles, London to Manchester and Leeds to London?

Thanks for your help in advance.

I'm afraid the permitted routes between London and Manchester don't permit going via Leeds (and it's a fairly circular and unnecessary routeing given the very fast and frequent service between London and Manchester).

However, one permitted route is via Sheffield and then down the Midland Main Line into St Pancras. You would use the outbound portion of your ticket going to Manchester. Then, on Saturday morning you could either:
a) Use the return portion of your ticket to go to Sheffield, break your journey/change and get an Off-Peak Day Return to Leeds (£11.70 if avoiding Doncaster), then when you change at Sheffield, resume the return portion, to go back to London via the Midland Main Line.
b) Get an Off-Peak Day Return from Manchester to Wakefield for £21.60. This is valid via Leeds for the outbound (you break your journey there during the day), and then via Sheffield on the return (you resume the journey to Wakefield and then use the return portion from there).

If you can accept being tied to specific trains then Advance tickets may make this cheaper on either alternative. Search on TrainSplit (see the forum link on the stickied post in the Fares Advice & Policy subforum) to see different options.

Those would be my suggestions.

 

[bb21]

I don't think London to Manchester is permitted via Leeds. London to somewhere like Huddersfield however would. You could purchase the Any Permitted Off-Peak Return, which would be valid both ways, plus a single Manchester to Huddersfield for Saturday morning.

Edit:

Or do what the poster above suggested. It's cheaper that way I think.

 

[robbeech]

Sheffield to Leeds Day return example above is exactly what I would do here if I wasn’t in a massive rush.

If you can book in advance and get a cheap Manchester to Leeds advance and a cheap Leeds to Sheffield advance it might save you some time as Manchester to Leeds Via Sheffield is not the fastest journey compared to direct.

 

[OwlMan]

Off peak "Any Permitted London to Ashton Under Lyne -£86.80 valid by many routes including via Leeds or Manchester & a single as appropiate to either Ashton or Stalybridge (or the first stop on the appropiate train from Manchester - Leeds if not Stalybridge).

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Off peak "Any Permitted London to Ashton Under Lyne -£86.80 valid by many routes including via Leeds or Manchester & a single as appropiate to either Ashton or Stalybridge (or the first stop on the appropiate train from Manchester - Leeds if not Stalybridge).

That's a find and a half... 10p less than the regular Off-Peak to Manchester yet valid via no less than 14 map combinations!

 

[Hadders]

That's a find and a half... 10p less than the regular Off-Peak to Manchester yet valid via no less than 14 map combinations!

Probably not for much longer....

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Probably not for much longer....

They can't change the associated Routeing points. Plus it's a regulated fare I'd have thought (as it's an SVR), so they can't hike it up.

 

[sonic2009]

If the OP is travelling this Saturday from Manchester to Leeds, there are replacement buses between Manchester & Huddersfield, but direct services are available from MCV to Leeds via Hebden Bridge, it appears TPE are running 1/2 hourly via Hebden Bridge.

So he wouldn't need another ticket to purchase, because it would be feasible to travel Ashton-MCV-Leeds.

 

[robbeech]

If the OP is travelling this Saturday from Manchester to Leeds, there are replacement buses between Manchester & Huddersfield, but direct services are available from MCV to Leeds via Hebden Bridge, it appears TPE are running 1/2 hourly via Hebden Bridge.

So he wouldn't need another ticket to purchase, because it would be feasible to travel Ashton-MCV-Leeds.

I’d consider that reasonable. And I don’t see why TPE wouldn’t feel the same way.

 

[Paul Kelly]

They can't change the associated Routeing points.

I think you aren't cynical enough yet! An example from the same general area: Buxton used to have associated routeing points of Chinley, Guide Bridge, Hazel Grove and Manchester Group, but on 5th April last year almost all these were removed and now it is only associated with Hazel Grove.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I think you aren't cynical enough yet! An example from the same general area: Buxton used to have associated routeing points of Chinley, Guide Bridge, Hazel Grove and Manchester Group, but on 5th April last year almost all these were removed and now it is only associated with Hazel Grove.

Well, they shouldn't change the resulting permitted routes without SoS (DfT) approval. Of course we all know that getting this is not difficult if it is claimed that 'revenue is at stake' (as then the DfT will be worried about franchise premiums) - that is, if they even bother to ask.

What I meant was that, given a selection of associated Routeing Points, they couldn't change the ones which are and aren't appropriate. Luckily, those are done by fares which were set a long time ago...

 

[Starmill]

They can't change the associated Routeing points.

Oh yes they can!!

 

[yorkie]

Well, they shouldn't change the resulting permitted routes without SoS (DfT) approval.

Not legally, but they can and do.

Maybe it'll come to a head one day...

What I meant was that, given a selection of associated Routeing Points, they couldn't change the ones which are and aren't appropriate. Luckily, those are done by fares which were set a long time ago...

They can change the associated Routeing Points by simply deleting them. True, they are not allowed to do this - at least not without a valid reason and DfT approval - but that's hardly going to stop them, as they've come to realise that the DfT do not take any enforcement action in this area whatsoever.

Maybe the DfT will one day care, but I don't think it's likely.

Of course Transport Focus should be sticking up for passenger rights, but they do not appear to have the knowledge, will, or remit to do anything about the removal of permitted routes.

 

[yorkie]

Hi,

I'm travelling from London Euston to Manchester on Thursday evening (off peak).

Do you want to commit to specific trains or have flexibility? Do you mind a longer journey time?

On Saturday morning I am then travelling from Manchester to Leeds and on Saturday evening travelling from Leeds back to London.

Again, are you able to commit to specific trains, and do you mind a slower journey for any of these segments?

...Manchester to Leeds? (rail-replacement bus)

Trains appear to be running from Manchester to Leeds. What time are you looking at?

If you don't mind losing flexibility, but you do want faster trains without faffing about with slower routes, just get 3 x Advance singles, one for each journey. (But do check if it's cheaper to split any of the legs; there are websites that will calculate this)

 

[cheadle_cherry]

Thanks very much for all the options. I think I will use the Huddersfield option.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks very much for all the options. I think I will use the Huddersfield option.

Bear in mind that the fastest trains on Saturday morning avoid Huddersfield: http://www.fastjp.com/#journeys?orig=MCV&dest=LDS&odate=20180421&otime=0700&maxres=21&maxch=0

Assuming you are using walk-up tickets, a London to Huddersfield return and one of the following would be required:

• Manchester to Dewsbury SDS £13.70
• Manchester to Huddersfield SDS £13.00

If you know your train isn't going to call at Huddersfield, or if you would rather buy the ticket in advance, and aren't fussed over 70p, then get the Dewsbury ticket for maximum flexibility.

 

[kieron]

Off peak "Any Permitted London to Ashton Under Lyne -£86.80 valid by many routes including via Leeds or Manchester & a single as appropiate to either Ashton or Stalybridge (or the first stop on the appropiate train from Manchester - Leeds if not Stalybridge).

One drawback of that ticket is that you can't travel down the ECML with it due to a longstanding easement.

040002 (Circuitous Route) Journeys from Ashton-U-Lyne and Mossley via Doncaster to Stevenage and Beyond may nt use the SVS/SVR fare routed Any Permitted

 

[yorkie]

One drawback of that ticket is that you can't travel down the ECML with it due to a longstanding easement.

040002 (Circuitous Route) Journeys from Ashton-U-Lyne and Mossley via Doncaster to Stevenage and Beyond may nt use the SVS/SVR fare routed Any Permitted

I strongly suspect there's only one VTEC Guard who would try to enforce such a byzantine negative "easement"!

 

[lyndhurst25]

Off peak "Any Permitted London to Ashton Under Lyne -£86.80 valid by many routes including via Leeds or Manchester & a single as appropiate to either Ashton or Stalybridge (or the first stop on the appropiate train from Manchester - Leeds if not Stalybridge).

Does this "Any Permitted" ticket still exist? BRFares is only showing "via Manchester" and "via Doncaster" options, with substantial and contradicting price differentials for the SVR and SOR fares.

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=AHN&dest=1072

A recent change maybe? Why go to the trouble of getting permission to change the Routeing Guide when you can achieve the same effect by introducing draconian "via" restrictions!

 

[OwlMan]

Does this "Any Permitted" ticket still exist? BRFares is only showing "via Manchester" and "via Doncaster" options, with substantial and contradicting price differentials for the SVR and SOR fares.

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=AHN&dest=1072

A recent change maybe? Why go to the trouble of getting permission to change the Routeing Guide when you can achieve the same effect by introducing draconian "via" restrictions!

Yes it is still there (London - Ashton not Ashton - London)

 

[lyndhurst25]

Yes it is still there (London - Ashton not Ashton - London)

Sorry, read the thread title "Manchester to London via Leeds" and assumed that cheadle_cherry was starting up north.

Either way it's funny that Ashton-London has different ticket route restrictions than London-Ashton. How is that allowed? More evidence that TOCs are gaming the system in their favour. Are there any other examples?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Sorry, read the thread title "Manchester to London via Leeds" and assumed that cheadle_cherry was starting up north.

Either way it's funny that Ashton-London has different ticket route restrictions than London-Ashton. How is that allowed? More evidence that TOCs are gaming the system in their favour. Are there any other examples?

Well, for example the whole in vs out of London - for most routes you can't get a Travelcard from the London zones to destinations outside the zones.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Well, for example the whole in vs out of London - for most routes you can't get a Travelcard from the London zones to destinations outside the zones.

That is true, but I was thinking about the "via" restrictions on tickets. For the example here London-Ashton is valid via the Midland Mainline to Sheffield, then via various routes that do not pass through either Manchester or Doncaster, on to Ashton, as there is an "Any Permitted" fare in that direction. However, Ashton-London only has "via Manchester" and "via Doncaster" ticket options, so those routes cannot be taken.