Have I been gypped by the TOC/OPC?

[Mermoo]

Hi guys, I've been reading threads on here for a while and appreciate all the wise words. I would really like some advice please. I applied to my first TOC some time ago for a trainee driver position. I was given a full breakdown of all tests that were to be conducted at each stage of the process. I got through to final OPC assessment stage and was given a full pack including sample tests, etc. for each of the tests. I thoroughly practiced for hours and felt confident going in. During the actual test they have put an extra test in that was not mentioned by either the TOC or in the practice material sent to me, which was a rbbs pack. The practice material says it is complete and advises to practice every test mentioned so that you aren't caught out by anything. However this test isn't a T-OCC or TRP1/2 Or Any VTS test, WAFV, ATATV it is a test never mentioned by TOC/OPC, so never practised! I passed every other test except this one - do I have a leg to stand on with a complaint...?
To me it seems like being given an exam to pass without knowing the subject and I have raised it with both TOC and OPC, so don't want to name at this stage, but just wondered what your thoughts are on whether I've been hard done by or if this is normal behaviour for a TOC?

 

[red2005]

Personally I think you’d be fighting a losing battle with a complaint.Only because there’s nothing to say they have to give you practice material in the first place.

A lot of industries only give potential applicants a brief outline of the tests they’re likely to take and not the vast detail the railway industry does and certainly doesn’t give you the opportunity to practice.

Fortunately or unfortunately depending which way you look at it , these tests are designed so anyone can pass or fail with or without practice and whether you’re already railway staff or not as it’s down to your overall ability.....they explain in detail how each test works on the day anyway and also give you the option to ask questions if you’re unsure on anything.

You never know though....what harm is there in a phone call? Good luck with whatever you decide to do mate....hope it works out for you.

Red.

 

[Mermoo]

Personally I think you’d be fighting a losing battle with a complaint.Only because there’s nothing to say they have to give you practice material in the first place.

A lot of industries only give potential applicants a brief outline of the tests they’re likely to take and not the vast detail the railway industry does and certainly doesn’t give you the opportunity to practice.

Fortunately or unfortunately depending which way you look at it , these tests are designed so anyone can pass or fail with or without practice and whether you’re already railway staff or not as it’s down to your overall ability.....they explain in detail how each test works on the day anyway and also give you the option to ask questions if you’re unsure on anything.

You never know though....what harm is there in a phone call? Good luck with whatever you decide to do mate....hope it works out for you.

Red.

Thanks for your reply Red

I appreciate that they don't have to give practice material, but to give it and to say that it covers every test that you will undertake on the day is not only misleading, but simply untrue.

Yes anyone can just pass or fail the tests without any practice, but to get up to a pass speed on these tests I believe does require some practice. On the day they didn't explain this test in detail, just said to wait until told to turn the paper over - no examples were shown prior.

I genuinely think someone has forgotten to include this test in practice material, or this test has actually been included on the day in error.

What is really galling is that this will count as one of my 'lives' if the issue isn't resolved. This is my biggest beef if you like - I haven't been given advance notice to prepare for this.

I have raised this with the TOC and OPC - is there any other 'body' I could include in a complaint? (who governs recruitment for TOCs - does anyone know?).

Many thanks for any further advice.

 

[Teddyward]

Forgive me if I’ve missed it but what was this extra test?

 

[AlterEgo]

(who governs recruitment for TOCs - does anyone know?).

The TOC controls its own recruitment. There's no "recruitment ombudsman", if that's what you're asking.

 

[Mermoo]

Forgive me if I’ve missed it but what was this extra test?

The test was DFFT.

 

[Mermoo]

The TOC controls its own recruitment. There's no "recruitment ombudsman", if that's what you're asking.

Thanks for the information.

 

[LRV3004]

Hi @Mermoo, was the DFFT the one where you had the pictures of trains on and had to follow diagnostic guidelines? It wasn't in my practice material either but luckily I did pass it!

 

[Mermoo]

Hi @Mermoo, was the DFFT the one where you had the pictures of trains on and had to follow diagnostic guidelines? It wasn't in my practice material either but luckily I did pass it!

Yes!
Well done you! Had you seen it/done it before? This is my first application, so wasn't aware of it and it took me a while to figure out the format, by which time I didn't have enough time to complete many.

 

[choochoochoo]

To me it seems like being given an exam to pass without knowing the subject and I have raised it with both TOC and OPC, so don't want to name at this stage, but just wondered what your thoughts are on whether I've been hard done by or if this is normal behaviour for a TOC?

Seeing how rare this kind of problem is I'd say not naming the TOC isn't going to preserve your anonymity. If their recruitment read this forum (which I'm sure most TOC recruitment teams do) they'll know who you are.

I'm sorry you felt you were sprung a surprise. Did you talk to the other candidates to see if they had received any prepatory material for the test you found a surprise ?

Also in terms of preparing, did you look on this forum for the tests to expect from this TOC as I'm sure if you'd have done that then the DFFT would no doubt have been discussed as being on the assessments. If you had then seen it on the discussion and not had received prep material then that was your opportunity to raise it with recruitment. Part of driving trains is being proactive in your preparation and knowing what to expect next.

 

[LRV3004]

Yes!
Well done you! Had you seen it/done it before? This is my first application, so wasn't aware of it and it took me a while to figure out the format, by which time I didn't have enough time to complete many.

No, I had never seen or done this particular test before, or any of them for that matter! I'm just thankful I got through them! Hope your issue is able to be resolved though.

 

[Mermoo]

choochoochoo, thanks for your reply.

Yes, the other candidates I spoke to had also not received any notice of the test or any practice material for it.

I have thoroughly researched the TOC and it is listed on this forum (in Jan 2018) as one that does not require DFFT.

 

[Mermoo]

No, I had never seen or done this particular test before, or any of them for that matter! I'm just thankful I got through them! Hope your issue is able to be resolved though.

You must be superhuman!
Thanks mate, much appreciated.

 

[choochoochoo]

choochoochoo, thanks for your reply.

Yes, the other candidates I spoke to had also not received any notice of the test or any practice material for it.

I have thoroughly researched the TOC and it is listed on this forum (in Jan 2018) as one that does not require DFFT.

Whilst not ideal that you were not advised of this test, it is not unfair seeing that all candidates were in a similar position as you.

I can understand your grievance, and would be working equally as hard to reclaim the 'life' that you've now lost.

When you feel in a position to disclose the TOC, please do let us know, as I am curious as to why and when their process changed. (Feel free to PM me should you wish)

 

[baz962]

Thanks for your reply Red

I appreciate that they don't have to give practice material, but to give it and to say that it covers every test that you will undertake on the day is not only misleading, but simply untrue.

Yes anyone can just pass or fail the tests without any practice, but to get up to a pass speed on these tests I believe does require some practice. On the day they didn't explain this test in detail, just said to wait until told to turn the paper over - no examples were shown prior.

I genuinely think someone has forgotten to include this test in practice material, or this test has actually been included on the day in error.

What is really galling is that this will count as one of my 'lives' if the issue isn't resolved. This is my biggest beef if you like - I haven't been given advance notice to prepare for this.

I have raised this with the TOC and OPC - is there any other 'body' I could include in a complaint? (who governs recruitment for TOCs - does anyone know?).

Many thanks for any further advice.

Hi there, just to add the dfft is not part of the main opc test's, that is why some toc's use it and some do not. It is therefore not part of the two lives, just if you do fail the dfft again then you cannot apply to a toc that uses it but can to any that do not.

 

[red2005]

Thanks for your reply Red

I appreciate that they don't have to give practice material, but to give it and to say that it covers every test that you will undertake on the day is not only misleading, but simply untrue.

Yes anyone can just pass or fail the tests without any practice, but to get up to a pass speed on these tests I believe does require some practice. On the day they didn't explain this test in detail, just said to wait until told to turn the paper over - no examples were shown prior.

I genuinely think someone has forgotten to include this test in practice material, or this test has actually been included on the day in error.

What is really galling is that this will count as one of my 'lives' if the issue isn't resolved. This is my biggest beef if you like - I haven't been given advance notice to prepare for this.

I have raised this with the TOC and OPC - is there any other 'body' I could include in a complaint? (who governs recruitment for TOCs - does anyone know?).

Many thanks for any further advice.

Hiya mate

Sounds like you had a tough day. I think if you for example were the only one to not receive the tests you may have had a case but given that no one did may harm any appeal you choose to make.

It sounds like it’s one of them intentionally not sending them out to everyone or simply a clerical error so there’s definitely no harm in a phone call.

Like I say, the problem you’ve got is that these are aptitude tests designed so anyone could pass or fail whether they practice or not........ for example when they send out practice material for the dots test they’re generally letters and not the dots that you will face on the day.....so the only real practice you get is the crossing off! Which anyone can do but the letters are a completely different ball game to the tiny dots you see on the day so what good is that practice anyway?

I do find it odd that they’ve not explained how the tests work in the classroom before you took them.... that does surprise me.....as if it is the fault finding test (which I’ve taken before) I can’t see how anyone could pass that without an explanation first.

Thinking on..... it could also be a case that they only HAVE to provide you with the OPC material which it sounds like they did...... having taken the new tests myself I know that not every TOC uses the DFFT and it’s down to the discretion of said TOC if it’s used.

The positive side to me says I’d say make a quick call but the negative side says I wouldn’t get your hopes up too high with it...... either way I wish you luck and I’ve got everything crossed for you pal

Red

 

[whhistle]

If their recruitment read this forum (which I'm sure most TOC recruitment teams do) they'll know who you are.

Really?
I don't think so. They're more interested in their jobs... recruiting people.
Most are far too busy to care what this forum thinks.

 

[tiptoptaff]

You'd be surprised....

 

[Dieseldriver]

Really?
I don't think so. They're more interested in their jobs... recruiting people.
Most are far too busy to care what this forum thinks.

So you don't think TOCs check social media/online forums for posts about them by current/employees?

 

[red2005]

Really?
I don't think so. They're more interested in their jobs... recruiting people.
Most are far too busy to care what this forum thinks.

Famous last words!......social media has been the downfall of many......I don’t share your confidence.

 

[choochoochoo]

Really?
I don't think so. They're more interested in their jobs... recruiting people.
Most are far too busy to care what this forum thinks.

Part of their job is Due Diligence, so I think if they were doing their job properly and making sure they are getting the best candidates, then if I were them I'd be checking all sources of information.

This thread is drifting off topic though.

 

[whhistle]

So you don't think TOCs check social media/online forums for posts about them by current/employees?

Ah ha - don't change what I wrote :P

I don't think TOC Recruitment check this forum just in case they can identify someone.

Social media however is a different story. But even then, I just can't see railway recruitment bothering. After the person has been recruited, however, is a different matter. In fact I know someone who was let go because of something they wrote on social media.

Protect your Facebook so nobody can see the posts and you're clear.

 

[LRV3004]

Protect your Facebook so nobody can see the posts and you're clear.

Or, better still, don't post anything at all.......

 

[MostlyHarmless]

Or, better still, don't post anything at all.......

The safest option by far!

 

[RD81]

People have had job offers rescinded due to comments they've made on here so I'd be extremely careful with what you say, as it could hurt any current or future applications. But if you are just trying to get or share helpful advice? No harm there