Pulling of the emergency handle

[transmanche]

So should I walk to the front of the train and knock on the door to the cab, as that is the only member of train staff onboard?

Yes some trains do have additional staff, but it should not be the customer's responsibility to need to work out they should do this on that train and that on this train, the railway industry should have a consistent system across everything. And if they don't, well that is their problem.

Maybe the TOCs should do what London Underground did. Stock where activating the alarm stopped the train immediately had a 'red alarm', whereas stock where the activating the alarm contacted the driver had a 'yellow alarm'. Posters on trains explained the difference. As stock got replaced/updated and all stock had an alarm that contacted the driver rather than immediately applied the brakes, the distinction was no longer necessary, so the 'yellow alarm' concept was dropped.

 

[221129]

The passcom IS the emergency brake.

No it isn't.. It's the Passenger Communication device.

 

[robbeech]

Cambridge to King's Cross fast trains are over 50 minutes non-stop.

If that's not close enough to an hour for you, add in a planned diversion around the Hertford Loop due to engineering works

What stock is used on these services? Does pulling the handle give an immediate emergency brake application?

 

[mmh]

What stock is used on these services? Does pulling the handle give an immediate emergency brake application?

Class 365 and Electrostars - neither apply the brake.

 

[robbeech]

Class 365 and Electrostars - neither apply the brake.

Thanks.

So not an issue to contact the driver using it then. I appreciate the topic is about the uncertainty and ambiguity or operating this.

 

[daikilo]

Thanks.

So not an issue to contact the driver using it then. I appreciate the topic is about the uncertainty and ambiguity or operating this.

I'm inclined to say that way back when the "communication cord" was pulled the driver and guard were immediately aware and could do nothing to prevent a stop.

I am in favour of a means to avoid such a stop occuring in a "dangerous" location and preferably at a platform. That said, in my entire life of train travel so far, I have never knowingly encountered such a stop.

 

[mmh]

I've pulled an alarm handle once, on a stationary train at London Charing Cross. I was in the toilet when the train (a 465 or 466) pulled in, and the inside handle didn't work and I couldn't get out. Banging on the door didn't get anyone to help, either everyone had already got off or didn't want to risk seeing who the loonie in the bog was.

It took a while before someone came and found me - my guess is that the driver had already left the cab when I pulled it and the guy who "found" me was a different driver who'd come to his train to find the alarm activated.

 

[furnessvale]

I'm inclined to say that way back when the "communication cord" was pulled the driver and guard were immediately aware and could do nothing to prevent a stop.

I am in favour of a means to avoid such a stop occuring in a "dangerous" location and preferably at a platform. That said, in my entire life of train travel so far, I have never knowingly encountered such a stop.

I thought the old fashioned communication cord only resulted in a partial brake application which a driver could power against with brakes dragging if he so needed?

 

[43096]

Cambridge to King's Cross fast trains are over 50 minutes non-stop.

If that's not close enough to an hour for you, add in a planned diversion around the Hertford Loop due to engineering works

Fair point - had forgotten about the Cambridge fasts.

 

[DavyCrocket]

Maybe the TOCs should do what London Underground did. Stock where activating the alarm stopped the train immediately had a 'red alarm', whereas stock where the activating the alarm contacted the driver had a 'yellow alarm'. Posters on trains explained the difference. As stock got replaced/updated and all stock had an alarm that contacted the driver rather than immediately applied the brakes, the distinction was no longer necessary, so the 'yellow alarm' concept was dropped.

Operating a Passenger Emergency Alarm on an Underground train, does apply the brakes and stop the train.
So long as the Alarm was not operated when a part of the train was at a platform, it can then be overridden and investigated and reset at the next available platform

 

[cjmillsnun]

No it isn't.. It's the Passenger Communication device.

Which on all BR era stock did what??? Bear in mind none of them allowed you to talk to the driver... Oh wait, lets see. It dumped the air or destroyed the vacuum. Result... The emergency brakes applied.

Nowadays they do still apply the brake, however there is an override and a talk back facility. But a passcom was traditionally a way of applying the emergency brake.

 

[swt_passenger]

...But a passcom was traditionally a way of applying the emergency brake.

I think you are trying to use the modern shorthand name “PassComm” for something that was never called that. It was usually referred to as the ‘communication cord’ in my experience...

 

[transmanche]

Operating a Passenger Emergency Alarm on an Underground train, does apply the brakes and stop the train.
So long as the Alarm was not operated when a part of the train was at a platform, it can then be overridden and investigated and reset at the next available platform

Yeah, I was trying to keep it simple. I was merely highlighting that during the period when LU had emergency passenger alarms which did different things, they identified them differently so that (informed) passengers knew what to expect. And thus TOCs on the National Rail network could do the same thing.

 

[TEW]

Just to confuse things further, 'Call for Aid' facilities that are fitted to more modern stock, generally in the wheelchair spaces and accessible toilets, allow communication with a member of traincrew, but do not apply the brakes whatsoever. Call for Aids are also being retrofitted to older stock as they receive PRM mods. Often with older stock these allow communication with the guard rather than the driver and are actually ideal for use when there is a medical emergency. The problem of course is that it is not necessarily that obvious which alarm does what, especially to an unfamiliar passenger in an emergency situation.

 

[edwin_m]

Fair point - had forgotten about the Cambridge fasts.

These are now worked by modern units with intercoms rather than the traditional brake valve, so it is possible to speak to the driver who can determine the best course of action depending on the nature of the emergency. But they were previously worked by 365s under DOO - did these units have intercoms? If not then it would have been necessary to stop the train to raise the alarm, especially if travelling in a rear unit with no access between coupled units to the cab at the front. In any case if someone bangs on the door the driver will probably have to stop the train anyway before dealing with the situation.

Operating a Passenger Emergency Alarm on an Underground train, does apply the brakes and stop the train.
So long as the Alarm was not operated when a part of the train was at a platform, it can then be overridden and investigated and reset at the next available platform

That was true historically but weren't they modified when DOO came in so that the train could be driven to the next station? And the more recent fleets surely have intercoms?

 

[BestWestern]

I sometimes wonder whether this announcement had any connection to the introduction of Class 456s on SWT/SWR, seeing as a passcom activation in the rear portion of non-gangwayed stock could be a headache if the Guard has moved into the front portion of the train for any reason.

This is about delays, rather than about the welfare of an ill passenger, although of course it has to be packaged in a customer-friendly way. If somebody is unwell to a significant degree, alerting the Guard at the earliest opportunity is the best course of action. This allows assistance to be arranged and coordinated so as to be waiting for the train at the optimal location, and getting the train to that location more quickly if need be. This may involve missing stops, making extra stops or various other measures to expedite the process of getting help to someone who needs it. Staggering onto a platform in the middle of the New Forest with "excuse me, I think I had a heart attack ten minutes ago" isn't very helpful. If operating a passcom is the best or only way of contacting on board staff in such a situation, then there should be no issue with that at all. A life or death medical situation is very definitely an emergency. GSMR is available where mobile phone reception isn't, and that's a good few areas of the railway, and only the crew have access to it.

I really don't think that many people are sufficiently stupid to pull a passcom because they have a headache or a runny nose, are they?

 

[43096]

I really don't think that many people are sufficiently stupid to pull a passcom because they have a headache or a runny nose, are they?

Maybe not to that extent!

I have stopped a passenger from pulling the passcom when someone had fainted. “They need medical help”. “Yes, but how are you getting that stuck between stations?” Blank look....

This was between Twickenham and Richmond. Get to Richmond, deal with it there - plenty of staff available.

 

[ScouserGirl]

From what I know if the train is in the middle off no where and you pull it, its only going to delay medical help.

 

[Jonfun]

In fairness to passengers, I think in four-odd years of working onboard I saw more passengers not pull the alarm when they'd have been perfectly entitled to do so than vice versa!

It's also worth remembering that at certain TOCs whilst the passcomm can be overridden, they only allow drivers to do this to avoid stopping in an unsuitable location and can't use it to "buy time" and speak to tbr passenger through the intercom, which muat be done whilst the train is at a stand.

 

[randyrippley]

Operating a Passenger Emergency Alarm on an Underground train, does apply the brakes and stop the train.
So long as the Alarm was not operated when a part of the train was at a platform, it can then be overridden and investigated and reset at the next available platform

thats clearly not true. Its only a few years since a guy was dragged into a tunnel and killed after a tube driver chose to ignore an alarm on his departing train, intending to investigate at the next station. Chap was trapped in a door.

 

[underbank]

The decision seems simple until you realise that in MOST cases the ambulance would take the patient to the Coronory Care Unit at Preston anyway - there isn't one at Kendal, and Lancaster traffic is so bad that to take patients there is unviable. Obviously it depends of availability of ambulance, availability of beds, status of the patient
But the fact remains that on many occasions the correct medical decision would be for the train to run non-stop to Preston, skipping Oxenholme and Lancaster.

It's not all about getting to the hospital quickly though, these days. If you're having a heart attack, you need a paramedic or first responder with a defib to keep you alive long enough to get to a hospital. In many/most cases, the patient is stabilised at the scene and only transported to a hospital once stabilised. Even the tiniest of villages these days have a defib with trained first responders. By the time your pendolino has got to Preston, the patient is probably long dead if he's been given no medical treatment for the past hour. So, whilst an emergency stop is not likely to be the right thing to do, pulling into the next station where professional medical help is available is probably better than just continuing to the next "big" station an hour away. (Do most main line stations have defibs either on site or nearby??).

 

[cjmillsnun]

It's not all about getting to the hospital quickly though, these days. If you're having a heart attack, you need a paramedic or first responder with a defib to keep you alive long enough to get to a hospital. In many/most cases, the patient is stabilised at the scene and only transported to a hospital once stabilised. Even the tiniest of villages these days have a defib with trained first responders. By the time your pendolino has got to Preston, the patient is probably long dead if he's been given no medical treatment for the past hour. So, whilst an emergency stop is not likely to be the right thing to do, pulling into the next station where professional medical help is available is probably better than just continuing to the next "big" station an hour away. (Do most main line stations have defibs either on site or nearby??).

I know the Network Rail managed stations tend to have at least one defib. Not consciously seen any elsewhere although I know of a couple of stations with defibs nearby. As a first aider I tend to keep a lookout for them.

Just to note defibs only work on two types of heart issue. Ventricular fibrillation and non-perfusing ventriular tachycardia. For all other types, monitoring the patient, and performing CPR if necessary (only if the patient is not breathing) until specialist care is available is the way to go. A defib attached will tell you that a shock is not required.

If the heart is asystole (completely stopped), then in reality it's more than likely the patient won't survive as there is literally minutes before the rest of the body starts to shut down. CPR is the only option for first aid and you will need specialist care ASAP.

 

[BestWestern]

From what I know if the train is in the middle off no where and you pull it, its only going to delay medical help.

It will delay it considerably less than if you just say nothing until you roll into the next station and then ask for it.

 

[Hadders]

I've been on a 365 operated service on two occasions when the passcom has been operated due to medical emergencies, both in the same area as it happens.

On the first occasion the driver stopped at the next station (Hadley Wood - we were not scheduled to stop there). The train was stopped for around half an hour while we waited for paramedics to arrive and deal with the passenger.

On the second occasion the driver came onto the PA, said he was aware of the passcom alert but was carrying onto to Kings Cross as we would arrive in the next 10 minutes which would enable assistance to be given quicker.

365s are driver only operated so it seems as though the driver has some control about what happens following a passcom.

 

[Bromley boy]

I've pulled an alarm handle once, on a stationary train at London Charing Cross. I was in the toilet when the train (a 465 or 466) pulled in, and the inside handle didn't work and I couldn't get out.

This is a known recurring issue. You weren’t the first and you certainly won’t be the last !!!

 

[Bromley boy]

365s are driver only operated so it seems as though the driver has some control about what happens following a passcom.

A passcom override pedal can be pressed to prevent the brakes coming on, and allow the train to be driven to a suitable location.

 

[D6975]

I've pulled the emergency stop on a circle line train The guidelines seem to suggest that I shouldn't have. A mother and small child managed to find themselves on opposite sides of the doors as they closed. I pulled the handle before the train started to move. Would you have done the same?

 

[D6975]

deleted - duplicated

 

[Signal Head]

I thought the old fashioned communication cord only resulted in a partial brake application which a driver could power against with brakes dragging if he so needed?

Rather than 'powering against' it, for vacuum brakes I think it was use of the large ejector (on steam) or exhauster speed-up control which overcame the partial application.

 

[Intermodal]

I've pulled the emergency stop on a circle line train The guidelines seem to suggest that I shouldn't have. A mother and small child managed to find themselves on opposite sides of the doors as they closed. I pulled the handle before the train started to move. Would you have done the same?

I would've definitely done it. Excellent initiative. If people don't see the benefit in this, they really are heartless.