Newton-le-Willows - new assembly plant & extra services?

[terryc]

Hi,
I've just received some 'propaganda' through my letterbox form the local Labour party.
Some of which makes interesting reading...
1) There is the possibility of Spanish loco manufacturer Talgo selecting Parkside to manufacture, assemble and test trains in preparation and anticipation of being awarded both commuter and HS2 contracts.
Can anyone shed any further light?
2) New services from Newton le Willows station introduced in May timetable, to take passengers to Ellesmere Port, Bradford, Leeds, York, Newcastle, Scarborough and Wigan.
It was my understanding that Ellesmere Port, Leeds, Bradford and York were indeed happening, but as regards Newcastle / Scarborough I thought it was one or t'other, not both. But also a service to Wigan?? That would suit me fine, but is that happening, or is it just political hyperbole?
Cheers

 

[TheGrew]

As a local, I too would be interested in this.
1. Parkside would be a good location for a train building depot (potential subsidence aside) as I believe the former mine sidings exist. Obviously the area was the former home to the Vulcan foundry (though this is now a housing estate!).
2. I would love a service to Wigan (ideally I would like a Warrington-Wigan shuttle calling at Earlstown, Newton-le-Willows and 'new' stations at Golborne and Platt Bridge). Connectivity from Newton northbound is rubbish at the moment and longer term a connection onto HS2 would be great.

 

[Bletchleyite]

2. I would love a service to Wigan (ideally I would like a Warrington-Wigan shuttle calling at Earlstown, Newton-le-Willows and 'new' stations at Golborne and Platt Bridge). Connectivity from Newton northbound is rubbish at the moment and longer term a connection onto HS2 would be great.

With lots of spare EMUs coming up, it would be good to see First North Western's Crewe to Carlisle hourly local service idea coming back up, that could perhaps call at all stations including a run round via Earlestown (is it wired?)

 

[TheGrew]

With lots of spare EMUs coming up, it would be good to see First North Western's Crewe to Carlisle hourly local service idea coming back up, that could perhaps call at all stations including a run round via Earlestown (is it wired?)

It's be wired since the 80s as part of the WCML wiring

 

[snowball]

It's be wired since the 80s as part of the WCML wiring

The 70s.

Though possibly only the south-eastern curve was wired then, as they didn't do many overruns? The rest of the station will have been wired by 2015 as part of NW elec phase 2a.

 

[notlob.divad]

Hi,
I've just received some 'propaganda' through my letterbox form the local Labour party.
Some of which makes interesting reading...
1) There is the possibility of Spanish loco manufacturer Talgo selecting Parkside to manufacture, assemble and test trains in preparation and anticipation of being awarded both commuter and HS2 contracts.
Can anyone shed any further light?
2) New services from Newton le Willows station introduced in May timetable, to take passengers to Ellesmere Port, Bradford, Leeds, York, Newcastle, Scarborough and Wigan.
It was my understanding that Ellesmere Port, Leeds, Bradford and York were indeed happening, but as regards Newcastle / Scarborough I thought it was one or t'other, not both. But also a service to Wigan?? That would suit me fine, but is that happening, or is it just political hyperbole?
Cheers

1) It is a possibility, they have announced they are looking for a site, and they have visited Parkside to look at it. There was a report in one of the local St. Helens papers, Star or Reporter when it happened.

2)They are being rather expansive with the truth. It does appear there will be direct services to all of those destinations, What they don't tell you is the frequency of them. For example, at the extremes of service, TPE will drop to 1 TPH across Chat Moss stopping at both Lea Green and Newton-Le-Willows, so whilst during the normal stopping pattern N-L-W will be on the Newcastle service and L G by the Scarborough, both will have the occasional direct train to both.

As for Wigan, there is already a service if rather unused and only in one direction per weekday.
Leave Wigan NW 0646 and calls at Newton at 0659 on the way to Liverpool.

This will be 'enhanced' slightly at the May timetable change.
Leave Wigan NW 0702 Call Newton 0716 Destination Liverpool
Leave Wigan NW 0806 Call Newton 0819 Destination Liverpool
Leave Liverpool 1759 Call Newton 1832 Destination Wigan NW

So it is more an extension of an extra peak service to-from Liverpool.

I too agree with others that if it could be fitted in, something like a Crewe <> Preston EMU service calling all stops including Earlestown and Newton-Le-Willows, would provide some very useful connections. (Winsford & Acton Bridge <> Warrington) (Earlestown & Newton-Le-Willows <> Wigan) however whether the usage would be enough to regularly fill a 3/4 car EMU that could stay out of the way of the Virgin Expresses and the Freight moves I don't know.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Under the initial HS2 plans, Golborne was to have hosted the north-west rolling stock depot.
But this is now intended for Crewe.
The other imponderable is the route from HS2/NPR into Liverpool.

I shouldn't think the prospects for Talgo are that high.
They have some impressive stock but not really aimed at UK conditions.
They also rely on others (Siemens, Bombardier) for a traction package.

 

[terryc]

Thanks for the replies thus far.
I too would relish a regular Crewe-Preston-Blackpool N local service (via Earlestown and N le W). With the Man Airport - Edinburgh service being re-routed via Chorley, that would free up a path from Golborne Jn. to Preston, with any new service being possibly routed via the slow lines thus limiting any conflict with Virgin to the Wigan - Balshaw lane section. However, I'm not sure about the loading further south, from Weaver Jn to Acton bridge?
Cheers
T

 

[notlob.divad]

With the Man Airport - Edinburgh service being re-routed via Chorley, that would free up a path from Golborne Jn. to Preston, with any new service being possibly routed via the slow lines thus limiting any conflict with Virgin to the Wigan - Balshaw lane section.

This is happening, once the Preston - Salford wires are complete. However the freed up path will be used by a Barrow - Manchester Airport Service.

However, I'm not sure about the loading further south, from Weaver Jn to Acton bridge?

Crewe to Weaver is one of the most congested parts of the rail network in the North. The only sign of Relief will come with HS2 Phase 2b, and whatever NPR ends up being towards Liverpool.

 

[TheGrew]

How about something a little out of the box, currently LM run 2tph of 350s Birmingham to Liverpool. Could one be changed from Birmingham to Wigan or Preston? (I appreciate it would require more units).
I think the only place that would really loose out would be Runcorn which will soon be gaining services using the Halton chord anyway.

 

[backontrack]

How about something a little more out of the box currently LM run 2tph of 350s Birmingham to Liverpool. Could one be changed from Birmingham to Wigan or Preston? (I appreciate it would require more units).
I think the only place that would really loose out would be Runcorn which will soon be gaining services using the Halton chord.

I think that might have been tried before by London Midland.

 

[TheGrew]

I think that might have been tried before by London Midland.

Wikipedia seems to think it was proposed but never implemented:

In October 2010, London Midland applied to the Office of Rail Regulation to run a new hourly Birmingham to Preston service from 2016 by diverting every other Birmingham to Liverpool train. The Euston to Crewe service would also then be extended to Liverpool to maintain a half-hourly service between Crewe and Liverpool by 2016.[11][12] This was rejected by the Office of Rail Regulation.[13] London Midland also sought to run additional evening and Sunday trains between Euston and Crewe, to satisfy what the company says is unmet demand.[11] From April 2012, London Midland began operating an hourly Euston to Crewe service on Sundays.[14]

In order to win a contract extension, London Midland has agreed to put on extra services, resulting in an extra 6,600 seats per week.[15]

 

[backontrack]

Wikipedia seems to think it was proposed but never implemented:

I see, thanks.

 

[RJ21]

Central Trains did for a while venture up to Preston with 350s, they got chopped when LM came in to being.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Tangentially (and of course not off topic) the Crewe to the north service is poor. A single hourly train, sometimes a five car Voyager.

 

[B&I]

As a local, I too would be interested in this.
1. Parkside would be a good location for a train building depot (potential subsidence aside) as I believe the former mine sidings exist. Obviously the area was the former home to the Vulcan foundry (though this is now a housing estate!).
2. I would love a service to Wigan (ideally I would like a Warrington-Wigan shuttle calling at Earlstown, Newton-le-Willows and 'new' stations at Golborne and Platt Bridge). Connectivity from Newton northbound is rubbish at the moment and longer term a connection onto HS2 would be great.

Add a station on the northern outskirts of Warrington to that for a bit more custom

 

[Ianno87]

Central Trains did for a while venture up to Preston with 350s, they got chopped when LM came in to being.

One train per day in one direction September 2004-Dec 2008. 1650-ish off New Street, ECS back to Crewe. Strategic Rail Authority specified, as I recall. Called at Warrington and Wigan.

Despite being at Uni at the time, never once thought to get it home one weekend...

The 70s.

Though possibly only the south-eastern curve was wired then, as they didn't do many overruns? The rest of the station will have been wired by 2015 as part of NW elec phase 2a.

There was a short overrun from the west junction towards Liverpool - long enough to put in a wire run overlap, but terminated short of the platforms (which are set back some way from the west junction).

However, it wasn't actually used* for NWEP, who rewired it anyway.

*A good example of when "passive provision" put in becomes useless when standards/designs change to render it not suitable for its original intended purpose.

 

[B&I]

How about something a little out of the box, currently LM run 2tph of 350s Birmingham to Liverpool. Could one be changed from Birmingham to Wigan or Preston? (I appreciate it would require more units).
I think the only place that would really loose out would be Runcorn which will soon be gaining services using the Halton chord anyway.

I think that somewhere else might possibly lose out from that service, a large city beginning with L, containing more people than the towns the diverted service would serve put together, and currently dependent on those LNR trains to link it to the cross-country network (probably even more so, if the suggestions casually made in other threads of removing Stafford stops from Liverpool-London services were taken up).

I would welcome additional services north of Crewe to fill in the obvioua gaps in service. Maybe something like Stafford - Stoke - Crewe - all stops to Blackpool. A sort of northern counterpart to the Trent Valley stoppers. However, it shouldn't be at the expense of worsening further Liverpool's already poor connectivity to the outside world

 

[TheGrew]

Add a station on the northern outskirts of Warrington to that for a bit more custom

Yeah I think a station at Cromwell Avenue (good for Gemini & Junction 9 Retail) or Hawleys Lane (still good for junction 9 and good for the college) would both be good. Though the latter site is close to the Royal Mail depot which probably makes the signalling somewhat more complex.

 

[Ianno87]

I think that somewhere else might possibly lose out from that service, a large city beginning with L, containing more people than the towns the diverted service would serve put together, and currently dependent on those LNR trains to link it to the cross-country network (probably even more so, if the suggestions casually made in other threads of removing Stafford stops from Liverpool-London services were taken up).

I would welcome additional services north of Crewe to fill in the obvioua gaps in service. Maybe something like Stafford - Stoke - Crewe - all stops to Blackpool. A sort of northern counterpart to the Trent Valley stoppers. However, it shouldn't be at the expense of worsening further Liverpool's already poor connectivity to the outside world

Running one of the Liverpools via Warrington (but still going to Liverpool)would plug a hole and not be a totally daft idea, in my view.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Crewe to Weaver is one of the most congested parts of the rail network in the North. The only sign of Relief will come with HS2 Phase 2b, and whatever NPR ends up being towards Liverpool.

I'm not sure about that.
There's the 3 Crewe-Liverpool (2xLNWR, 1xVT), and 2xVT Crewe-Preston, plus Chester-Manchester cross-traffic and 1tph Warrington-Liverpool.
Plus random freight, mostly at night, and significantly less than there was before the coal traffic evaporated.
5tph on a 125mph route doesn't seem "congested" to me.
The various 2/4-track sections don't help, of course, or the conflicting junctions.
But it's very far from full.
You can stand 40 minutes at Warrington (having missed the Chester connection, again ), and not see a single train between the hourly passenger flights.

 

[edwin_m]

There's plenty of daytime freight on the WCML, and the two-track sections north of Crewe are significant bottlenecks that woudl be difficult to widen due to the viaducts. The gaps at Warrington could be because other trains join/leave at Weaver Junction.