Railway Enthusiasts at Stations - is a clearer policy needed?

[rebmcr]

Just on my way back from a couple of hours spotting at York. On arrival I went to the Virgin "information cube" to double check whether I needed to sign in or anything. Was told no need to sign in and given a few safety instructions along the lines of "just obey all the signs, don't go over the yellow line, don't use flash photography at oncoming trains and stay safe.". Quite a sensible and pragmatic approach I think.

I think this illustrates the outcome of this thread:

• Those who don't really need to sign in try to sign in
  
• Those who do need to be kept an eye on don't bother to sign in

 

[bramling]

Are you just copying and pasting your hilarious stock rants from your hatred of station staff and folding bikes again?

Since you put a question mark on the end, why not go the full way and enlighten us?

As it happens, I don't hate station staff - however I do have a problem with the small minority who think they have the right to make up their own rules & procedures, which effectively amounts to bullying and abuse of authority. Experience within the industry also suggests such individuals are often not good workers all-round.

I take it you'd be comfortable with being faced with no-one at the booking office whilst the member of staff is out on the platform telling someone they can't take photos? (real-life example, by the way).

 

[ColinC]

I’m currently sat at Stafford waiting for a connection to Lime Street, I’m sharing the waiting room with a spotter, there’s a chap outside with a camera on a tripod and a few others milling around. I do envy their deviation today though as it’s pelting down

And there was I thinking trainspotting was a hobby rather than a deviation!

(I know you meant dedication, but it made me smile. )

 

[greyman42]

Perhaps a Freudian slip.

 

[Elecman]

And there was I thinking trainspotting was a hobby rather than a deviation!

(I know you meant dedication, but it made me smile. )

Or devotion

 

[maire23]

Yes sorry I meant devotion- stupid autocorrect!

 

[Spamcan81]

Since you put a question mark on the end, why not go the full way and enlighten us?

As it happens, I don't hate station staff - however I do have a problem with the small minority who think they have the right to make up their own rules & procedures, which effectively amounts to bullying and abuse of authority. Experience within the industry also suggests such individuals are often not good workers all-round.

I take it you'd be comfortable with being faced with no-one at the booking office whilst the member of staff is out on the platform telling someone they can't take photos? (real-life example, by the way).

Would be interesting to now at which station this happened. There was a guy at my local station who seemed to have a downer on photographers and if you failed to heed his ranting over the tannoy, would shut the booking office and come and have a go at you in person. Photography was illegal, being on the platform without a ticket was illegal (open station, no barriers, not in a penalty fare area), having your dog with you was illegal and so on.

 

[bramling]

Would be interesting to now at which station this happened. There was a guy at my local station who seemed to have a downer on photographers and if you failed to heed his ranting over the tannoy, would shut the booking office and come and have a go at you in person. Photography was illegal, being on the platform without a ticket was illegal (open station, no barriers, not in a penalty fare area), having your dog with you was illegal and so on.

Two places actually - one was Wadhurst, and the other Parbold. In both cases not exactly the hub of the empire!

What it really points to is poor recruitment and weak supervision / management -- certain individuals think they can get away with doing what they want.

The same culture is why these sorts of individuals have a habit of never making a train staff position, where the spotlight of authority is rather stronger.

 

[fowler9]

Two places actually - one was Wadhurst, and the other Parbold. In both cases not exactly the hub of the empire!

What it really points to is poor recruitment and weak supervision / management -- certain individuals think they can get away with doing what they want.

The same culture is why these sorts of individuals have a habit of never making a train staff position, where the spotlight of authority is rather stronger.

Yeah, over the years I have worked with dozens of people who take enjoyment in getting one over on the customer no matter if they were right or not. They were also generally very bad at their job.

I swear, they actually took pleasure in it. I have seen a good number of them sacked as well.

 

[aylesbury]

Surely it comes down to being safe obey the rules and don't annoy regular passengers and if there is a station cat make a fuss of him or her .

 

[Class455]

I'm another who does filming on a regular basis, most of the time I've never been bothered by anyone, but there was one time when I was waiting for a friend of mine at Balham, that a cleaner came up to me and asked me what I was doing, and I told him "I'm just filming for a little while whilst waiting for someone", and he said to me "make sure you don't cross the yellow line" and he went about his business.
I did inform one of the platform staff when I was at West Hampstead Thameslink spotting 319's, and he was very friendly, we even had a conversation about the 319's leaving and how I wanted to spot the farewell tour that weekend! It really depends on who asks.

Often when I spot, I usually arrive and depart by train so don't bother with informing the staff of my presence. I have yet to do some proper spotting at Clapham Junction but am planning to soon. Even if I'm arriving and departing by train, would I only need to inform station staff of my presence if they ask or should I inform them when I arrive?

 

[Antman]

I'm another who does filming on a regular basis, most of the time I've never been bothered by anyone, but there was one time when I was waiting for a friend of mine at Balham, that a cleaner came up to me and asked me what I was doing, and I told him "I'm just filming for a little while whilst waiting for someone", and he said to me "make sure you don't cross the yellow line" and he went about his business.
I did inform one of the platform staff when I was at West Hampstead Thameslink spotting 319's, and he was very friendly, we even had a conversation about the 319's leaving and how I wanted to spot the farewell tour that weekend! It really depends on who asks.

Often when I spot, I usually arrive and depart by train so don't bother with informing the staff of my presence. I have yet to do some proper spotting at Clapham Junction but am planning to soon. Even if I'm arriving and departing by train, would I only need to inform station staff of my presence if they ask or should I inform them when I arrive?

I've taken a few photos at Clapham Junction without any problems and I've never informed anybody first. On one occasion there were a few photographers at the Waterloo end of platform 9 snapping HST's that were diverted into Waterloo, I saw a member of staff striding purposely towards us and I thought this could be trouble, he then pulls a phone out of his pocket and takes a few snaps himself.

 

[brick60000]

I'm another who does filming on a regular basis, most of the time I've never been bothered by anyone, but there was one time when I was waiting for a friend of mine at Balham, that a cleaner came up to me and asked me what I was doing, and I told him "I'm just filming for a little while whilst waiting for someone", and he said to me "make sure you don't cross the yellow line" and he went about his business.
I did inform one of the platform staff when I was at West Hampstead Thameslink spotting 319's, and he was very friendly, we even had a conversation about the 319's leaving and how I wanted to spot the farewell tour that weekend! It really depends on who asks.

Often when I spot, I usually arrive and depart by train so don't bother with informing the staff of my presence. I have yet to do some proper spotting at Clapham Junction but am planning to soon. Even if I'm arriving and departing by train, would I only need to inform station staff of my presence if they ask or should I inform them when I arrive?

After the initial faff I'd had described in my initial post at Clapham, I was directed to the office by the gateline at the Southern TOC end of the station (unsure if this describes it clearly enough?). The people there were very friendly - though whether this was because their manager had told thth I was coming up I don't know.

What did amuse me, is that this manager asked to see my id (driving license). He photocopied it - I thought fair enough, maybe for records of who has 'visited'. He gave me the photocopy to take to reception who looked at it and gave it me back!! Couldn't help but smile... XD

 

[DarloRich]

q) Railway Enthusiasts at Stations - is a clearer policy needed?

a) no: just follow the existing rules and behave sensibly. Do you really need a tripod?

The amount of spotters you see at Doncaster every day is definitely noticeable - there's normally two groups at the London and of platform three and platform four. It might just be the TOC (Virgin EC) but I've never seen anyone discouraged - then again it might be expected at Doncaster as at the moment we have IEPs passing through, lots of freight and lots of HSTs and 91s.

cant beat a bit of spotter spotting at Doncaster!

I have never, ever, had a problem taking pictures at any station.

 

[brick60000]

q) Railway Enthusiasts at Stations - is a clearer policy needed?

a) no: just follow the existing rules and behave sensibly. Do you really need a tripod?



cant beat a bit of spotter spotting at Doncaster!

I have never, ever, had a problem taking pictures at any station.

At times, a tripod is necessary if it's dark and you want a long exposure!

It's unfortunate that by following existing rules and procedures people still wind up in bother for no good reason.

 

[221129]

At times, a tripod is necessary if it's dark and you want a long exposure!

It's unfortunate that by following existing rules and procedures people still wind up in bother for no good reason.

If you must use a tripod then you should find somewhere else to use it. As some spotters at Bristol are going to find out this year...

 

[brick60000]

If you must use a tripod then you should find somewhere else to use it. As some spotters at Bristol are going to find out this year...

Why should I? The guidelines clearly state that this is permitted, provided they are kept behind yellow lines, which is a given. I really don't undertstand the issue, provided I am not in the way of passenger flows. A tripod is very little different to an array of large bags a commuter may be travelling, in terms of floor space.

 

[shredder1]

The guidelines are fine and thats all they are guidelines, things were more problematic before them and they were put together through negotiation of rail managers and rail enthusiasts, so its only reasonable to adhere to them. They are essentially aimed at enthusiasts entering a station and spending time there, not at someone taking the odd photograph passing through, its unfortunately that we have this in Britain now, while the rest of Europe appear to let you get on with it.

 

[Robertj21a]

Why should I? The guidelines clearly state that this is permitted, provided they are kept behind yellow lines, which is a given. I really don't undertstand the issue, provided I am not in the way of passenger flows. A tripod is very little different to an array of large bags a commuter may be travelling, in terms of floor space.

Although there may be a few occasions when a tripod (rather than a monopod) is necessary, there seem to be quite a few in use - even in the daytime, bright conditions etc. If they must be used it might be helpful if they are only used when really essential. If everyone is sensible and cooperative there's less chance of more onerous conditions being applied in future.

 

[221129]

Why should I? The guidelines clearly state that this is permitted, provided they are kept behind yellow lines, which is a given. I really don't undertstand the issue, provided I am not in the way of passenger flows. A tripod is very little different to an array of large bags a commuter may be travelling, in terms of floor space.

Because the railway is letting you enjoy your hobby based on goodwill. They dont HAVE to let you and you have no RIGHT to be allowed to be there.

 

[brick60000]

Although there may be a few occasions when a tripod (rather than a monopod) is necessary, there seem to be quite a few in use - even in the daytime, bright conditions etc. If they must be used it might be helpful if they are only used when really essential. If everyone is sensible and cooperative there's less chance of more onerous conditions being applied in future.

I actually find tripods a pain to use when not necessary - it limits your mobility somewhat having to cart around a three-legged object! Not particularly helpful when something gets re-platformed last minute

Because the railway is letting you enjoy your hobby based on goodwill. They dont HAVE to let you and you have no RIGHT to be allowed to be there.

So if I am on a station, with a train ticket (which I have, as a season ticket holder), taking photos, I have no right to be there? If you wanted to be awkward, the railway doesn't have to let you do anything, being private property and all - perhaps we should be grateful the TOCs decide to run a train service for us?

I don't really see the relevance of being allowed to carry out my hobby & not being allowed a tripod? You could say that about anything! Maybe I shouldn't use a camera, because it is a privilege to be there? Perhaps I shouldn't take a bag, because I am taking up room when someone is kind-heartedly giving me and only me, not my belongings, to be on their station to take photographs? You could go on forever...!

 

[AlterEgo]

Because the railway is letting you enjoy your hobby based on goodwill. They dont HAVE to let you and you have no RIGHT to be allowed to be there.

But the railway's own guidelines say you can use tripods.

 

[221129]

But the railway's own guidelines say you can use tripods.

Providing they aren't causing an obstruction...

 

[AlterEgo]

Providing they aren't causing an obstruction...

Yes, not "no tripods full stop", so I'm not sure why you think someone who wants to use a tripod should go elsewhere to take photos.

They should simply use the tripod responsibly.

 

[AM9]

Ironically, the only place on 'railway'* property that I've ever had a member of staff prohibit the use of a camera support was at Grand Central Terminal in New York. It was a monopod, but he thought it was a tripod because as a video monopod, it had three small feet at the bottom.
I intend buying a gimbal some time in the next few months, (not specifically for rail video). It will give tripod-like stability in a handheld device. I wonder should I encounter one of these self-entitled TOC employees, what would they make of that! Maybe they would say that by their rules, I'm not moving enough to be a bona-fide customer!

* Strictly speaking it was railroad property.

 

[shredder1]

Ironically, the only place on 'railway'* property that I've ever had a member of staff prohibit the use of a camera support was at Grand Central Terminal in New York. It was a monopod, but he thought it was a tripod because as a video monopod, it had three small feet at the bottom.
I intend buying a gimbal some time in the next few months, (not specifically for rail video). It will give tripod-like stability in a handheld device. I wonder should I encounter one of these self-entitled TOC employees, what would they make of that! Maybdayse they would say that by their rules, I'm not moving enough to be a bona-fide customer!

* Strictly speaking it was railroad property.

I don`t tend to use a tripod a lot these day, the technology with the newer generation cameras doesnt really require one for my type of photography, for extra stability I use a monopod on occasion which doubles up as a walking stick, which is something they can`t really argue about.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

At times, a tripod is necessary if it's dark and you want a long exposure!

Like this one? Camera hand-held against a canopy support... This one is only 1/10 a second, but I've used that technique and similar - such as walls, benches, lamp posts and luggage trolleys - for exposures which, upon checking the properties afterwards, have been up to 5 seconds long.

 

[TwinTurbostar]

Like this one? Camera hand-held against a canopy support... This one is only 1/10 a second, but I've used that technique and similar - such as walls, benches, lamp posts and luggage trolleys - for exposures which, upon checking the properties afterwards, have been up to 5 seconds long.

Or this one that I took at Smethwick Galton Bridge, with just a camera, a spare bench and my wallet to prop the camera up slightly? 20 second exposure, if you were wondering.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/145227801@N02/25693121038/in/datetaken-public/

 

[Gostav]

Like this one? Camera hand-held against a canopy support... This one is only 1/10 a second, but I've used that technique and similar - such as walls, benches, lamp posts and luggage trolleys - for exposures which, upon checking the properties afterwards, have been up to 5 seconds long.

View attachment 44821

When l used Mamiya Super 23, l often use slow shutter speed (1/30; 1/15) for my 100 mm /f 3.5 or 127 mm /f 4.5 lens under low light and always handheld shooting but if any possible l will use high speed film, however iso 100 or 50 film is more cheap. For some sensitive area l will use TLR camera or any top-viewfinder or just a small 135 camera.
Some old generation press photographers even can hold 1 second when use 4*5 camera.

 

[brick60000]

Certainly agree a tripod is not always necessary. I often like to do exposures in the region of 30 sec to keep the ISO as low as possible and aperture higher too where I can for background detail. For this purpose, hand held is definitely a no no!