Halton Curve upgrade is on

[frodshamfella]

Have I heard right that Merseyrail are planning to wodge batteries onto one of their new trains and extend some Ellesmere Port services to Helsby using it ? It is an obvious missing link ij the network, creating a complete loop from Liverpool round both banks if the Mersey, and allowing a much better Ellesmere Port-Helsby service.

Interesting.

 

[frodshamfella]

In the long run, the obvious step is to integrate local services on the Liverpool-Runcorn line (whether to Chester or Crewe) into Merseyrail, with Merseyrail-like frequencies (at least 4 TPH to Runcorn, and 2 stoppers each to Crewe and Chester from there), and similar steps taken with the other local services into Lime Street high level (which would then have more than enough room to accommodate long-distance trains).

That would require the Edge Hill Spur or something like it to be built at the Liverpool end. But that project is 50 years overdue as it is.

These local services should be in addition to hourly longer distance trains to North Wales, and via the Marches to South Wales. Hopefully the Crewe line, and the 2 track Weaver Junction-Winsford section in particular, will by then have been bypassed by a new high speed line.

No doubt in a moment someone will come along and question the demand. In response to which, I would point to the well-patronised 4 TPH services Merseyrail run on their existing lines.

Sounds a good idea to me, Liverpool to Runcorn and Hartford are busy now, I use Acton Bridge which would be busier, if there was more car parking space, which has been ridiculous for years now. If a Beechwood Station does get build on the curve, it would really help that area of Runcorn which is full of windy roads that take an age to get anywhere.

 

[edwin_m]

Would there be much scope for freight over the Halton Curve? Can't think of much at the moment but with Liverpool Port expansion and that incinerator at Runcorn there could be some paths required in the future?

There is hardly any freight going through Chester these days and the routes the Halton Curve would facilitate would be a bit too short for rail to be highly competitive. Liverpool Port probably wouldn't generate any traffic via Halton Curve as it would have to do an awkward reversal at Edge Hill so almost certainly easier to go via Earlestown and Warrington. North Wales waste disposal by rail has been talked about - I think they were considering an incinerator somewhere on Deeside but Runcorn might be easier to get to as it would avoid having to build a new curve at Shotton.

A routeing via Chester and Shrewsbury is a possible alternative to WCML for trains serving some of the terminals between Runcorn and Garston, which can access Halton Curve without any extra reversals, but it is constrained by loading gauge.

 

[Skie]

Have I heard right that Merseyrail are planning to wodge batteries onto one of their new trains and extend some Ellesmere Port services to Helsby using it ? It is an obvious missing link ij the network, creating a complete loop from Liverpool round both banks if the Mersey, and allowing a much better Ellesmere Port-Helsby service.

Semi-right!
All of the new stock will have batteries, though just enough to enable limited depot movements in and out of the shed.
One train will be delivered with enough batteries to enable them to gauge how feasible running an actual service using them will be. The long term goal is to prove they can do it, then extend the Ellesmere Port service further past Stanlow (where eletrification is apparently a no-go). Testing initially wont be on this stretch, as Merseyrail dont have any stock capable of acting as a rescue vehicle and the cost to add a stretch of 3rd rail at Helsby for recharging would be pricey for a limited test. If it goes well, then they'll have to apply for funding to do that work plus fit batteries to more units. I can imagine them wanting to stuff batteries into all of the fleet, partly because it makes fleet management simple but also because it means you can potentially keep a service running when the juice goes off, or at least get trains into stations to avoid needing to resuce stranded passengers.

 

[kieron]

North Wales waste disposal by rail has been talked about - I think they were considering an incinerator somewhere on Deeside but Runcorn might be easier to get to as it would avoid having to build a new curve at Shotton.

I think it's under construction now, but it's road-only for the foreseeable future. A new rail curve in Shotton is possible, but you'd only build it if it's better value than having freight trains from the Chester direction reverse in Wrexham. Given the cost of rail infrastructure, that would need a lot of trains.

 

[edwin_m]

I think it's under construction now, but it's road-only for the foreseeable future. A new rail curve in Shotton is possible, but you'd only build it if it's better value than having freight trains from the Chester direction reverse in Wrexham. Given the cost of rail infrastructure, that would need a lot of trains.

And freight trains from the North Wales direction would have to reverse at Chester and Wrexham, passing over their course at Shotton about two hours later. An incinerator in Runcorn is as least as accessible by rail as one on Deeside from nearly every direction, unless at least one new curve is built at Shotton. Which may explain why the one they are building is road-only.

 

[B&I]

Semi-right!
All of the new stock will have batteries, though just enough to enable limited depot movements in and out of the shed.
One train will be delivered with enough batteries to enable them to gauge how feasible running an actual service using them will be. The long term goal is to prove they can do it, then extend the Ellesmere Port service further past Stanlow (where eletrification is apparently a no-go). Testing initially wont be on this stretch, as Merseyrail dont have any stock capable of acting as a rescue vehicle and the cost to add a stretch of 3rd rail at Helsby for recharging would be pricey for a limited test. If it goes well, then they'll have to apply for funding to do that work plus fit batteries to more units. I can imagine them wanting to stuff batteries into all of the fleet, partly because it makes fleet management simple but also because it means you can potentially keep a service running when the juice goes off, or at least get trains into stations to avoid needing to resuce stranded passengers.

Where is the test going to be ? I thought EP-Helsby had been pencilled in because the lack of buffer stops made it easier to run on from there, compared to other Merseyrail termini

 

[Skie]

Where is the test going to be ? I thought EP-Helsby had been pencilled in because the lack of buffer stops made it easier to run on from there, compared to other Merseyrail termini

Somewhere in 3rd rail land. They'll only test on non-electrified rail once they are confident it will actually work over that distance and track profile. Look before you leap and all that.

 

[frodshamfella]

Where is the test going to be ? I thought EP-Helsby had been pencilled in because the lack of buffer stops made it easier to run on from there, compared to other Merseyrail termini

Helsby would be a much more useful terminating station than E Port for onward connections, and to give Ince and Elton a useable service.

 

[krus_aragon]

If the part visible from the main line is anything to go by, then the new track doesn't appear to have been slewed over at all.

A recent article on the NWCR notice board suggested it had been slewed slightly.

 

[driver_m]

A recent article on the NWCR notice board suggested it had been slewed slightly.

To be honest, once they actually put the track in properly, the top end near the box does look like it's been slewed over.

 

[childwallblues]

I note that the junction has been put back in at Halton Junction.Was this done at easter?

 

[The_Engineer]

I note that the junction has been put back in at Halton Junction.Was this done at easter?

In short, yes! see the timelapse video
https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/986135274039185408

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

In short, yes! see the timelapse video
https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/986135274039185408

Did the signalling get switched on as well, or is that what's happening over the May Day weekend?
I see it's a 4-day closure May 5-8 at the Runcorn end, with the Frodsham end also closed on Sunday May 6.

 

[childwallblues]

Did the signalling get switched on as well, or is that what's happening over the May Day weekend?
I see it's a 4-day closure May 5-8 at the Runcorn end, with the Frodsham end also closed on Sunday May 6.

Probably Halton Junction box will close at this time.

 

[frodshamfella]

They seem to be making good progress, I imagine they are on schedule for the December start of service. Is there any indication when this will operate to a destination/s beyond Chester which of course is the aim ?

 

[Cheshire Rover]

They seem to be making good progress, I imagine they are on schedule for the December start of service. Is there any indication when this will operate to a destination/s beyond Chester which of course is the aim ?

Isn't the new franchise about to be announced for Wales and Borders? I understand that it will ne the W+B TOC that will be running the initial service(s) into Liverpool so perhaps any destinations other than Chester will be in that document?

 

[driver_m]

May 9th when the signalling goes over to Manchester ROC in the Halton area.

 

[frodshamfella]

I was at Ellesmere Port Station today , on footbridge were a group of officials who I imagined were to do with railways. I heard word Dual workings mentioned and 'The Helsby comes up to here' .....so who knows. They were stood over the tracks for some time.

 

[8A Rail]

I was at Ellesmere Port Station today , on footbridge were a group of officials who I imagined were to do with railways. I heard word Dual workings mentioned and 'The Helsby comes up to here' .....so who knows. They were stood over the tracks for some time.

Rather than speculate or what may of been, why did you not approach them and ask? A good chance they would of told you had you explained your interest. Just a thought.

 

[frodshamfella]

Rather than speculate or what may of been, why did you not approach them and ask? A good chance they would of told you had you explained your interest. Just a thought.

That would not have felt right, besides I was going for a train.

 

[8A Rail]

That would not have felt right, besides I was going for a train.

Fair enough but still would of ask, time permitting of course.

 

[childwallblues]

Rather than speculate or what may of been, why did you not approach them and ask? A good chance they would of told you had you explained your interest. Just a thought.

I thought the same. They could have been considering putting stop blocks in!

 

[frodshamfella]

I thought the same. They could have been considering putting stop blocks in!

Believe me it would not have been appropriate to but - in which is what I'd had had to do while I was walking past.

 

[M28361M]

Realtime Trains is showing the Saturday Chester-Runcorn parliamentary service as running from 26th May (although there is an RMT strike that day so I doubt it will actually run). I'm sure I saw some reports suggesting this train would not run at all in 2018, as the "proper" service would be starting in December.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As far as I could see today, the new infrastructure at Halton Jn is complete.
The new southbound crossover is in and all the signals are operational (plated WE - Weaver-Edge Hill?).
Halton Jn signal box has had its nameplate partially removed, leaving just the letters "HAL" - presumably now decommissioned.
But in the "bank holiday work completed" item, NR said more work on the curve would be done over the next BH weekend.
On the weekend of 26-28th May, Crewe-Warrington/Liverpool South Parkway is closed again, but not until 1200 on the Saturday which seems to allow the Chester parly to run. Maybe!
At the other end of the curve, all the work at Frodsham Jn appears to be complete.

PS - should have mentioned there was a red STOP board clipped onto the branch line at Halton Jn, so definitely not open today!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Realtime Trains is showing the Saturday Chester-Runcorn parliamentary service as running from 26th May (although there is an RMT strike that day so I doubt it will actually run). I'm sure I saw some reports suggesting this train would not run at all in 2018, as the "proper" service would be starting in December.

Cancelled on May 26 in RTT.
Still there for subsequent Saturdays, but I don't know how believable that is.
The ECS is shown as continuing to Lime St, but this is during the blockade, when everything else terminates at South Parkway.
But you'd hope to see some test trains running each way on the line once work has finished and the signalling commissioned.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Does anyone know whether following the recent upgrades on the Curve if the work is now complete and the line able to be used both ways again?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Does anyone know whether following the recent upgrades on the Curve if the work is now complete and the line able to be used both ways again?

The NR update on the completion of the bank holiday weekend work said:

Ongoing work on the Halton Chord and installing new signalling on the Weaver-Wavertree project on Merseyside

It is rather vague on the chord, I would presume more work is needed to complete the signalling (from Manchester ROC).
The parly is still on RTT for this Saturday June 2, with ECS on to Lime St, but that is when Lime St in under blockade.

 

[northwichcat]

Cancelled on May 26 in RTT.
Still there for subsequent Saturdays, but I don't know how believable that is.
The ECS is shown as continuing to Lime St, but this is during the blockade, when everything else terminates at South Parkway.
But you'd hope to see some test trains running each way on the line once work has finished and the signalling commissioned.

Well that ECS can't run, not just because of the Lime Street bit but because an EMT shunt would be blocking it's path.