Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[507021]

Do we know how many 3-car 150s will be created?

Twelve.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Twelve.

Cheers. So using my possibly flawed 3-car 144 comparison that gives 2 extra units. Given that Knottingley and Sheffield via Casvegas currently get mostly 2-car Pacers as far as I'm aware, those extra 2 units may well fill some of those gaps (along with 2-car 150s and the odd 170). With the Leeds services towards Woodlesford the limitation might be platform 17- the Sheffield/Lincoln Connect service will be 2&3-car 158/195, so hopefully P17 is able to take 3x23m + 3x20m.

 

[northwichcat]

Do we know how many 3-car 150s will be created? From what I can gather, they'll be based at Neville Hill and used on the "lowest tier" West Yorkshire locals which will include those listed.

Twelve.

The franchise agreement states 16 x hybrid 150s plus the 150/0s (18 x 3 car 150s in total), so if it's now 12 x 3 car 150s (possibly due to not getting enough 150s from GWR) that would suggest up to 6 diagrams which were due to be 3 car 150s will now only get 2 car 150s.

 

[cactustwirly]

Cheers. So using my possibly flawed 3-car 144 comparison that gives 2 extra units. Given that Knottingley and Sheffield via Casvegas currently get mostly 2-car Pacers as far as I'm aware, those extra 2 units may well fill some of those gaps. With the Leeds services towards Woodlesford the limitation might be platform 17- the Sheffield/Lincoln Connect service will be 2&3-car 158/195, so hopefully P17 is able to take 3x23m + 3x20m.

The Knottingley circuit normally gets 3 car 144s from my experience.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This thread (and much of the whole forum) seems obsessed with seats.
The latest buses mag shows lots of interurban buses which look much superior to Northerns hard knees under your chin spacing. The railways need to watch out.
Eg at http://transportdesigned.com/the-pioneer-is-back-riding-redefined-in-harrogate/
K

I still wonder if someone will have a go at that with coaches. 2+1 seating, free tea and coffee, seat selection etc - could do the railway some harm. There's Megabus Gold / Citylink Gold in Scotland but there hasn't been a large amount of it elsewhere.

 

[cactustwirly]

The franchise agreement states 16 x hybrid 150s plus the 150/0s (18 x 3 car 150s in total), so if it's now 12 x 3 car 150s (possibly due to not getting enough 150s from GWR) that would suggest up to 6 diagrams which were due to be 3 car 150s will now only get 2 car 150s.

Northern have got all the 150s they were supposed to get from GWR (except 125, 126 & the two 150/2 halves, which should arrive soon)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The franchise agreement states 16 x hybrid 150s plus the 150/0s (18 x 3 car 150s in total), so if it's now 12 x 3 car 150s (possibly due to not getting enough 150s from GWR) that would suggest up to 6 diagrams which were due to be 3 car 150s will now only get 2 car 150s.

I thought it was now finalised that the 150/0s were now staying in GWR-land, so that's at least a 2-unit shortfall. Hopefully the replacements will be 170s or better (fingers crossed!).

The Knottingley circuit normally gets 3 car 144s from my experience.

It's been a while since I've been up that way so I may well have been seeing Sheffield stoppers in 17 and wrongly assuming they were heading for Knottingley.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Do we know how many 3-car 150s will be created? From what I can gather, they'll be based at Neville Hill and used on the "lowest tier" West Yorkshire locals which will include those listed. Penistone currently is almost entirely 3-car 144s, and it wouldn't surprise me to see the 3-car 150s in the same role. If there's still going to be the evening extra formed from an arrival from Leeds via Bradford, I'd expect that to be a 3-car 150.

150s aren't ideal but they are adequate. The idea that they'd be refitted with a more "regional" interior is rather fanciful though. Avoiding airline seats on the '3' side would be nice, but again unlikely.

What I do know is that it won't be many as the figure was quoted elsewhere on here.

EDIT: its mentioned above.

 

[northwichcat]

Northern have got all the 150s they were supposed to get from GWR (except 125, 126 & the two 150/2 halves, which should arrive soon)

On top of that Northern need another 2 x 3 car 150s and 3 x 2 car 150s, not including the West Midlands 150s. The lease start date for the other 2 x 3 car 150s and 3 x 2 car 150s is 1st April 2019, while the GWR leases for the rest of the Angel 150s end on 31st March 2019. However, GWR have a clause that the leases will be automatically be extended if DfT extend the current franchise beyond 31st March 2019 (opposed to award a new franchise) which looks like it could leave Northern 12 vehicles short.

 

[northwichcat]

I thought it was now finalised that the 150/0s were now staying in GWR-land, so that's at least a 2-unit shortfall.

Rumour was 3 extra 769s which will be 12 vehicles instead of 12 vehicles but will make things less flexible, so some services might get more carriages and other services may get fewer carriages if that happens. However, now GWR are rumoured to be getting 19 x 769s for Thames Valley and are supposed to be sending additional Turbos west they might won't need the rest of the Angel 150s after all.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

What I do know is that it won't be many as the figure was quoted elsewhere on here.

If the lowest figure is 12, that's still 2 up from the 3-car 144s, though there's more than just those 10 units leaving (the other 13 144s plus all the 142s and the 153s, along with the 155s which are going to Hull). As I understand it one of the issues with the 150s is that the 2 prototypes and the 2 orphaned cars are owned by a different ROSCO (Angel?) compared to the rest of the 150/1s.

 

[cactustwirly]

On top of that Northern need another 2 x 3 car 150s and 3 x 2 car 150s, not including the West Midlands 150s. The lease start date for the other 2 x 3 car 150s and 3 x 2 car 150s is 1st April 2019, while the GWR leases for the rest of the Angel 150s end on 31st March 2019. However, GWR have a clause that the leases will be automatically be extended if DfT extend the current franchise beyond 31st March 2019 (opposed to award a new franchise) which looks like it's going to leave Northern 12 vehicles short.

GWR is not in a position to release anything more, a trip from Bristol to Bradford on Avon will trlt you that! I took a 12pm service in a Saturday, and the 2 car 150 was absolutely rammed!
If anything GWR should be the one receiving more stock!

 

[xotGD]

The Knottingley circuit normally gets 3 car 144s from my experience.

1 diagram is booked a 3-car 144, 1 diagram is booked a 150, other diagram I don't usually see but I think is booked a 2-car Pacer. There is then an evening turn with a 153.

The last I read, all services ought to be 3-car 150s after things settle down, but we shall see.

 

[northwichcat]

GWR is not in a position to release anything more, a trip from Bristol to Bradford on Avon will trlt you that! I took a 12pm service in a Saturday, and the 2 car 150 was absolutely rammed!
If anything GWR should be the one receiving more stock!

GWR are receiving more stock - 45 x 4 car 387s which will allow Turbos to cascade west and replace smaller Sprinters and Pacers. Yes I know there's delays but many Northern routes are now 12 months behind with getting their promised extra capacity.

A rammed DMU on a Saturday is a normal every Saturday occurrence up here, as well as in the East Midlands and in Wales. You're lucky it wasn't so packed that passengers were left to wait on the platform for an hour for the next train.

 

[Malay States]

Rumour was 3 extra 769s which will be 12 vehicles instead of 12 vehicles but will make things less flexible, so some services might get more carriages and other services may get fewer carriages if that happens. However, now GWR are rumoured to be getting 19 x 769s for Thames Valley and are supposed to be sending additional Turbos west they might won't need the rest of the Angel 150s after all.

Does anyone know the state of play on 769s? A year or so ago, the first was due to be out on test on a private line in November last year, by October that had been revised to February this year. Now we are in April and I haven't heard any news. Are there big problems?

 

[507021]

If the lowest figure is 12, that's still 2 up from the 3-car 144s, though there's more than just those 10 units leaving (the other 13 144s plus all the 142s and the 153s, along with the 155s which are going to Hull). As I understand it one of the issues with the 150s is that the 2 prototypes and the 2 orphaned cars are owned by a different ROSCO (Angel?) compared to the rest of the 150/1s.

The 150/0s, all of the 150/1s and the spare 150/2 carriages are owned by Angel Trains.

 

[cactustwirly]

GWR are receiving more stock - 45 x 4 car 387s which will allow Turbos to cascade west and replace smaller Sprinters and Pacers. Yes I know there's delays but many Northern routes are now 12 months behind with getting their promised extra capacity.

A rammed DMU on a Saturday is a normal every Saturday occurrence up here, as well as in the East Midlands and in Wales. You're lucky it wasn't so packed that passengers were left to wait on the platform for an hour for the next train.

The 387s have arrived and the majority of Turbos have been cascaded west, but it still isn't enough

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The 150/0s, all of the 150/1s and the spare 150/2 carriages are owned by Angel Trains.

I wasn't sure, hence my question mark! Are the rest Porterbrook then? They seem to have shafted Northerners in more than one way, but at least with the 323s it seems to have rather backfired on them!

 

[td97]

Does anyone know the state of play on 769s?

See the class 769 thread, and not the Northern Unit refurbishment thread.
Likewise there is a thread for Northern rolling stock changes where most of the recent discussions on this thread belong.

 

[TEW]

The 387s have arrived and the majority of Turbos have been cascaded west, but it still isn't enough

Not quite the majority. No 2-car 165s are in service yet for example, and all the 3-car 165s remain at Reading. There are more Turbos to enter service in the West, as well as the 2+4 HST sets to enter service yet, so plenty more capacity on the way.

 

[cactustwirly]

Not quite the majority. No 2-car 165s are in service yet for example, and all the 3-car 165s remain at Reading. There are more Turbos to enter service in the West, as well as the 2+4 HST sets to enter service yet, so plenty more capacity on the way.

The remaining bulk of the Turbos won't be free until 2020, a few will be released when 802s are introduced next year.

 

[507021]

I wasn't sure, hence my question mark! Are the rest Porterbrook then? They seem to have shafted Northerners in more than one way, but at least with the 323s it seems to have rather backfired on them!

The 150/2s are owned by Angel Trains and Porterbrook. Angel own nineteen units as well as the two spare carriages, with Porterbrook owning the remainder of the 150/2 fleet.

Northern lease 150/2s from both, seventeen units from Angel and eleven from Porterbrook.

 

[TEW]

The remaining bulk of the Turbos won't be free until 2020, a few will be released when 802s are introduced next year.

True, but there are a lot of 2-car 165s that are due to enter service in the West that haven't yet. They are all being modified and readied for service.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

If the lowest figure is 12, that's still 2 up from the 3-car 144s, though there's more than just those 10 units leaving (the other 13 144s plus all the 142s and the 153s, along with the 155s which are going to Hull). As I understand it one of the issues with the 150s is that the 2 prototypes and the 2 orphaned cars are owned by a different ROSCO (Angel?) compared to the rest of the 150/1s.

I could be wrong but I do think that 001, 002, 209 and 212 are owned by Porterbrook and not Angel. So the two ROSCOs will have to come to some agreement over who will own what which could mean that when Northern finally gets 125 / 925 and 126 / 926 they could be devoid of the centre car.

 

[Bovverboy]

According to my Rolling Stock booklet, 001, 002, 209 and 212 are all owned by Angel.

 

[northwichcat]

The 387s have arrived and the majority of Turbos have been cascaded west, but it still isn't enough

I don't think any operator operating DMUs has enough.

 

[northwichcat]

I could be wrong but I do think that 001, 002, 209 and 212 are owned by Porterbrook and not Angel. So the two ROSCOs will have to come to some agreement over who will own what which could mean that when Northern finally gets 125 / 925 and 126 / 926 they could be devoid of the centre car.

According to my Rolling Stock booklet, 001, 002, 209 and 212 are all owned by Angel.

Angel advertise the 3 car 150/0s in their portfolio

 

[SteveyBee131]

...and not the Northern Unit refurbishment thread.
Likewise there is a thread for Northern rolling stock changes where most of the recent discussions on this thread belong.

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!!!!!

Once upon a time, this was a fairly interesting thread about comings and goings with Northern's refurbishments project. It's got more and more of topic and is now completely unrecognisable and rather unrelated.

 

[507021]

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!!!!!

Once upon a time, this was a fairly interesting thread about comings and goings with Northern's refurbishments project. It's got more and more of topic and is now completely unrecognisable and rather unrelated.

I'm going to try and update the unit list as soon as I can, hopefully before the weekend.

 

[SteveyBee131]

I'm going to try and update the unit list as soon as I can, hopefully before the weekend.

At least some are still on topic looking forward to the updates, thank you