Buying another ticket to take another seat

[marshmallow]

What do people think of the idea of buying a second ticket (when travelling alone) in order to have two seats to oneself on a train? When travelling off-peak with Southern, a return ticket or Travelcard can be purchased for an accompanied child for just £2 so subject to availability of seating, would it be acceptable to purchase an extra ticket (for an invisible child) and take two seats?

 

[nedchester]

What do people think of the idea of buying a second ticket (when travelling alone) in order to have two seats to oneself on a train? When travelling off-peak with Southern, a return ticket or Travelcard can be purchased for an accompanied child for just £2 so subject to availability of seating, would it be acceptable to purchase an extra ticket (for an invisible child) and take two seats?

The ticket entities you to travel and not the seat.

Therefore someone else could sit there should they wish.

 

[AM9]

You could even be penalised for buying a ticket for a child without just cause (i.e. there being no child). That would be an abuse of the conditions of the Network Card.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

And how would you ensure you kept the seat free if ....

(a. An infirm or invalide person required it - would you make them stand (as surrounding passengers upload face pictures of you along with your name and address to social media under the tagline' heartless *******') ?

(b. A six foot five scar faced brute with a dozen anchor tattoos up and down their arms threatens to shove your additional ticket where the sun don't shine while disembowelling you in the process

 

[robbeech]

Absolutely not allowed, as much as we would all love a table of 4 to ourselves (although I actually don’t mind the company usually) the person who sits next to you is likely only doing so because they too cannot get a pair of seats. If you want more chance of space or more chance of a free seat next to you then first class is usually (though not always) less populated on trains that have this facility. Failing that you can take a taxi for your own private use.

 

[30907]

You could even be penalised for buying a ticket for a child without just cause (i.e. there being no child). That would be an abuse of the conditions of the Network Card.

The OP hasn't mentioned a railcard.
It would be against F and F railcard conditions, obviously, but that's all.

 

[Hadders]

If the 'passenger' for the additional ticket has decided not to travel then another passenger is entitled to occupy it.

 

[supervalkoinen]

And how would you ensure you kept the seat free if ....

(a. An infirm or invalide person required it - would you make them stand (as surrounding passengers upload face pictures of you along with your name and address to social media under the tagline' heartless *******') ?

(b. A six foot five scar faced brute with a dozen anchor tattoos up and down their arms threatens to shove your additional ticket where the sun don't shine while disembowelling you in the process

I've seen her too.

 

[Nick66]

I once witnessed a passenger getting on a train and asking a “lady” (I use the term in the loosest possible sense) sitting in the aisle seat if he could please get past to sit in the vacant window seat only to be refused and told that she had paid for two seats. Due to the difficulty of dealing with someone in such a state of inebriation he gave up and I later saw him standing in the vestibule.

 

[Adlington]

The ticket entities you to travel and not the seat.

And if the ticket comes with a seat reservation??

 

[nedchester]

And if the ticket comes with a seat reservation??

The reservation has not been taken up so the seat is free.

 

[AlterEgo]

And if the ticket comes with a seat reservation??

If nobody sits in the seat it’s still free.

Basically, no, you can’t take up two seats just because you bought a ticket.

 

[island]

The only circumstance in which this would have a colour of merit would be if the passenger was of a size large enough that he/she needed two seats to sit in comfort/avoid discommoding other passengers.

 

[thaitransit]

Very large passengers would need to do this at times. So you would think there would be a uniform policy for this. I have a close friend in this situation who due to his size cannot physically fit into standard seats and requires 2. I have to sit behind or across the aisle. In Australia he has been able to book this often free of charge for the extra seat. What is the UK policy on this?

 

[Long Rock]

If you don’t like the idea of sitting next to some stranger on a train then perhaps train travel isn’t for you!!

 

[Wallsendmag]

Would it not be cheaper to buy one ticket in First?

 

[AlterEgo]

Very large passengers would need to do this at times. So you would think there would be a uniform policy for this. I have a close friend in this situation who due to his size cannot physically fit into standard seats and requires 2. I have to sit behind or across the aisle. In Australia he has been able to book this often free of charge for the extra seat. What is the UK policy on this?

There isn’t one.

 

[Bertie the bus]

What do people think of the idea of buying a second ticket (when travelling alone) in order to have two seats to oneself on a train? When travelling off-peak with Southern, a return ticket or Travelcard can be purchased for an accompanied child for just £2 so subject to availability of seating, would it be acceptable to purchase an extra ticket (for an invisible child) and take two seats?

Try driving. If you are so averse to being near members of the public don't use public transport, or just do what numerous others like you do and pile all your wordly belongings onto the seat next to you.

 

[thaitransit]

Would it not be cheaper to buy one ticket in First?

If the first class seats are far more spacious then it would be the better way to do it. I have done it with a friend in Queensland before book 1st class as the seating is much wider as its 1 + 2 layout.

 

[thaitransit]

I assume the train is a reservation required service then every passenger would have a seat number so If you booked both seats then no one else can use it as they can't buy the ticket and they won't know about it until train is departing. Only issue is if they pick up extra passengers who bought tickets last minute at regional stations. But for my experience its very rare to lose it if you paid for it. But the UK is probably different.

 

[matt]

But the UK is probably different.

Yes no UK trains are reservation only (apart from sleeper services or Eurostar)

 

[thaitransit]

Yes no UK trains are reservation only (apart from sleeper services or Eurostar)

So that means it is generally not possible to reserve seats on daylight trains? Does this apply to 1st class as well or only 2nd class? If its only 2nd class it means I could find myself standing up for hours especially on the northern scotland lines eg inverness to wick. that appear to be 2nd class only?

 

[matt]

So that means it is generally not possible to reserve seats on daylight trains? Does this apply to 1st class as well or only 2nd class? If its only 2nd class it means I could find myself standing up for hours especially on the northern scotland lines eg inverness to wick. that appear to be 2nd class only?

No it means that don't need to have a reservation. Some trains are reservable whilst other are. Longer distance trains usually allow reservations. I don't think trains to Wick are reservable but it would be unlikely the train would be totally full especially if you are joining at Inverness where the train starts.

 

[Typhoon]

I once witnessed a passenger getting on a train and asking a “lady” (I use the term in the loosest possible sense) sitting in the aisle seat if he could please get past to sit in the vacant window seat only to be refused and told that she had paid for two seats. Due to the difficulty of dealing with someone in such a state of inebriation he gave up and I later saw him standing in the vestibule.

From your, admittedly brief, description of the woman passenger I think I would have preferred to stand.

Maybe that is the answer to ensuring you get a double seat - make yourself as objectionable as possible!

Sorry, not the answer the OP wants to hear but as others have pointed out, a ticket is a ticket to travel, two tickets are two tickets to travel (after all, buying a second ticket might mean that you want to make the same journey twice). And a child has no more right to sit than anyone else - a passenger without a seat might just suggest that the imaginary child sits on your lap.

 

[6Gman]

From your, admittedly brief, description of the woman passenger I think I would have preferred to stand.

Maybe that is the answer to ensuring you get a double seat - make yourself as objectionable as possible!

Back in compartment days, when passengers had to look in before deciding whether to open the sliding compartment door, my parents taught my brother and I to scratch enthusiastically when such passengers appeared.

 

[marshmallow]

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

The OP hasn't mentioned a railcard.
It would be against F and F railcard conditions, obviously, but that's all.

I agree that this would not be allowed with a Family And Friends Railcard - in most cases, it is cheaper for an adult to travel with a child than on their own using one of these!

Would it not be cheaper to buy one ticket in First?

It might be in some cases where a cheap First Class advance ticket is available, however this is unlikely to be the case most of the time.

The ticket entities you to travel and not the seat.
Therefore someone else could sit there should they wish.

And a child has no more right to sit than anyone else - a passenger without a seat might just suggest that the imaginary child sits on your lap.

The National Rail conditions of carriage state "Children under five years of age may accompany fare-paying passengers free of charge, unless the Train Company you want to use specifies otherwise in their notices and other publications. However, children under five years of age who are travelling free may only occupy a seat which is not required by a fare-paying passenger". So someone might buy a ticket for a child under 5 specifically so that they are entitled to a seat, in which case it would be ludicrous for someone to suggest that a child sits on your lap if they have a ticket (out of interest, to anyone's knowledge, has anyone ever been asked to show a ticket for a child under 5 in order to show that they are allowed to occupy a seat? Or has anyone ever purchased a ticket for a child under 5 so that they are entitled to a seat which is not required by a fare-paying passenger?). This condition would appear to suggest that a ticket does entitle you to a seat.

Without going into any detail as this concerns air travel rather than rail travel, I did once see a sign at an airport advising that passengers can purchase the seat next to them if they would like more space.

 

[Mag_seven]

Back in the days of sleeper "bargain berths" a mate of mine bought two for the same berth one in his own name and the other in his fathers name. On the night the father "couldn't make it", thus he was able to get sole occupancy of that berth at a price considerably less than the fare for "sole occupancy".

 

[Bensonby]

Isn’t it a byelaw offence to sit in a seat that is shown as reserved (if you didn’t reserve it)? If that is the case then to buy two tickets with seat reservations side by side then haven’t you reserved both seats? Essentially doing what the OP wanted?

 

[Hadders]

Isn’t it a byelaw offence to sit in a seat that is shown as reserved (if you didn’t reserve it)? If that is the case then to buy two tickets with seat reservations side by side then haven’t you reserved both seats? Essentially doing what the OP wanted?

If the reservation isn’t taken up then it becomes available for any other passenger.

 

[Bensonby]

If the reservation isn’t taken up then it becomes available for any other passenger.

When does it become available? Byelaw 19 only mentions if it is marked as reserved.

What if someone reserved a seat on a train but commenced their journey mid-way through by picking up the train at a later stop?