Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[superkev]

150_144 at Doncaster today Sat.
K

 

[yorksrob]

Lots of Western 150's around the place now.

Of course, we need the 2+2 seating layout with tables, but of course we get the suburban ones, and Northern aren't going to do a proper refurb.

 

[47802]

Lots of Western 150's around the place now.

Of course, we need the 2+2 seating layout with tables, but of course we get the suburban ones, and Northern aren't going to do a proper refurb.

I don't really see why most of the services that 150's should eventually work are likely to need the 3+2 seating capacity.

I will agree that the overall refurb on the 150's is a bit second rate, I was on few recently and were already looking grubby both inside and out. The outside paint looks nice but its already not wearing well to much white, and its the same inside too much white. While one with the yellow seat handles and grab rails was assaulting my eyes.

 

[M1544]

158759 expected to be heading to Kilmarnock for refurb today:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O86078/2018/04/01/advanced

 

[superkev]

158759 expected to be heading to Kilmarnock for refurb today:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O86078/2018/04/01/advanced

Looks like somethings coming back too.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O86094/2018/04/01/advanced
K

 

[xotGD]

I was in a refurbished 158 for the first time yesterday. One thing I noticed was that the pale blue stripe on the luggage rack has been painted white. So the last vestige of Regional Railways livery has gone.

 

[Defiance149]

Looks like somethings coming back too.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O86094/2018/04/01/advanced

158758

 

[M1544]

158759 expected to be heading to Kilmarnock for refurb today:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O86078/2018/04/01/advanced

155341 also went with 158759

 

[superkev]

155341 also went with 158759

With 158 758 on its way up is that all the 3 car 158's redecorated or being done?
K

 

[507021]

With 158 758 on its way up is that all the 3 car 158's redecorated or being done?
K

Yes, 158759 will the last 3 car 158 to be refreshed.

 

[boeing737229]

one with the yellow seat handles and grab rails was assaulting my eyes.

I couldn't agree more...Even if they used warmer white lights it'd be better! The white panelling probably wants toning down a bit and the grab rails done in Arriva green as on 150275/155346

 

[boeing737229]

155341 also went with 158759

Such a good thing I caught 341 yesterday...last time I'll ever see it in the old livery then

 

[M1544]

It’s notable that the 155 refurb is speeding up now that experience has been gained. 347 has been at Kilmarnock for 4 months, unlike first done 346 which was about 13 months.

 

[Bwlch y Groes]

It’s notable that the 155 refurb is speeding up now that experience has been gained. 347 has been at Kilmarnock for 4 months, unlike first done 346 which was about 13 months.

Yes, all the refurbishments should get faster. 155347 came back with 158758 today

 

[railfan100]

I was in a refurbished 158 for the first time yesterday. One thing I noticed was that the pale blue stripe on the luggage rack has been painted white. So the last vestige of Regional Railways livery has gone.

This shows what a success the privatised TOC model has been in 2018 the Regional Railways stripe of the early 1990's has finally been removed, this is fantastic progress. I do not care what the critics say the privatised system offers great value for money and ensures the UK has one of the best and most cost effective rail networks on the planet.

 

[Bantamzen]

Lots of Western 150's around the place now.

Of course, we need the 2+2 seating layout with tables, but of course we get the suburban ones, and Northern aren't going to do a proper refurb.

We don't actually "need" them, it might be nice once all are cascaded and the 195/331s are out in the wild but at the moment capacity is key. So get them repainted and new seat covers on & have them adding the extra capacity that is urgently needed rather than sitting in workshops for months getting a few tables thrown in.

And as I've said, the 150s will soon be Northern's oldest and next in line to exit stage right, so maybe throwing more money at them to just isn't good value for the customer in the long run. The stakes will be raised next year when the new CAF units arrive, plus of course there are also the 158/170s starting to arrive so the 150s ought to be used less on longer runs, sticking more and more to local services.

 

[yorksrob]

We don't actually "need" them, it might be nice once all are cascaded and the 195/331s are out in the wild but at the moment capacity is key. So get them repainted and new seat covers on & have them adding the extra capacity that is urgently needed rather than sitting in workshops for months getting a few tables thrown in.

And as I've said, the 150s will soon be Northern's oldest and next in line to exit stage right, so maybe throwing more money at them to just isn't good value for the customer in the long run. The stakes will be raised next year when the new CAF units arrive, plus of course there are also the 158/170s starting to arrive so the 150s ought to be used less on longer runs, sticking more and more to local services.

I think that all the while there's a chance that they're going to end up on Northern's longer distance services, they should make them fit for that. If you're painting and re-upholstering them, why not add tables.

And if they've got time to replace seats on 158.'s and 156's, then they've got time to do a proper refurb on the 150's which actually need one.

 

[Bantamzen]

I think that all the while there's a chance that they're going to end up on Northern's longer distance services, they should make them fit for that. If you're painting and re-upholstering them, why not add tables.

And if they've got time to replace seats on 158.'s and 156's, then they've got time to do a proper refurb on the 150's which actually need one.

There is always going to be that risk of 150s turning up for longer routes, but as the cascades and new deliveries kick in the proportion of non-tabled stock versus tabled will naturally reduce making it easier for planners to mininise this scenario.

And let's face it at the end of this franchise the 150s will gmve getting close to 40 years old, and unlikely to see much more service which is probably why they are just getting a refresh.

 

[yorksrob]

There is always going to be that risk of 150s turning up for longer routes, but as the cascades and new deliveries kick in the proportion of non-tabled stock versus tabled will naturally reduce making it easier for planners to mininise this scenario.

And let's face it at the end of this franchise the 150s will gmve getting close to 40 years old, and unlikely to see much more service which is probably why they are just getting a refresh.

I'm afraid I do not forsee a scenario where Northern will neatly allocate its rolling stock resources according to suitability. In this case, far batter to make sure all stock is fit for purpose. As for the stock being 40 years old "at the end of this franchise", that seems to be more of a justification for getting on with it to me.

It's worth bearing in mind that when Wessex performed its excellent refurb of 150's in the West country, their rolling stock resources were probably no less stretched than Northerns are now.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm afraid I do not forsee a scenario where Northern will neatly allocate its rolling stock resources according to suitability. In this case, far batter to make sure all stock is fit for purpose. As for the stock being 40 years old "at the end of this franchise", that seems to be more of a justification for getting on with it to me.

It's worth bearing in mind that when Wessex performed its excellent refurb of 150's in the West country, their rolling stock resources were probably no less stretched than Northerns are now.

To a degree they will have to better allocate stock when the Connect brand is launched, but nonetheless the simple fact will be that they will have a smaller proportion of stock without 2x2 seating and tables, making it by proxy easier to allocate the correct stock. Sure there might be the odd occasions when a 150 is drafted in, but I don't forsee it ever being as big a problem as they have now. Plus if they needed more Connect standard DMUs from somewhere, there is a local operator who will soon(ish) be letting go of quite a few that Northern already have experience with.

 

[northwichcat]

I don't really see why most of the services that 150's should eventually work are likely to need the 3+2 seating capacity.

We don't know for certain what the diagrams will be. While we know platform lengthening plans, that doesn't give away the full plan. For example, Northern obviously plan to use 3 car 150s on the Penistone Line but it might be only one Penistone Line diagram will have 3 cars and the rest will have 2 or it could be that all diagrams will have 3 cars.

Many of the North West diagrams which get Pacers need more seats, if you replace the Pacers with 150s with 2+2 seating and a PRM toilet then there won't be more seats even if it might be more comfortable for the passengers who do manage to get seats.

 

[yorksrob]

To a degree they will have to better allocate stock when the Connect brand is launched, but nonetheless the simple fact will be that they will have a smaller proportion of stock without 2x2 seating and tables, making it by proxy easier to allocate the correct stock. Sure there might be the odd occasions when a 150 is drafted in, but I don't forsee it ever being as big a problem as they have now. Plus if they needed more Connect standard DMUs from somewhere, there is a local operator who will soon(ish) be letting go of quite a few that Northern already have experience with.

Considering they can't even prevent the miniscule number of Merseyrail pacers from turning up on 1.5+ hour journeys, I can't see this sudden attention to rollingstock allocation materialising. The idea that any franchise will source additional rolling stock, just because that which they have available has an unsuitable interior for long journeys seems highly unlikely to me.

The best thing to do would be to cancel unnecessary seat replacements on 158's and 156's, and insted spend the money on getting rid of the 2+3 interiors on the 150's which simply aren't fit for purpose, even on shortish commuter runs. They should accept the fact that the 150's are going to be around on the network for some time and upgrade them accordingly.

 

[northwichcat]

The best thing to do would be to cancel unnecessary seat replacements on 158's and 156's

Do we know that 156 seat replacements are going ahead? The proposed plan was to replace seating on the 156s so that recycled Chapman seating can be used on the 150s but it's been suggested that plan has been dropped and one of the 156s with Chapman seating has had its seats refreshed.

 

[yorksrob]

Do we know that 156 seat replacements are going ahead? The proposed plan was to replace seating on the 156s so that recycled Chapman seating can be used on the 150s but it's been suggested that plan has been dropped and one of the 156s with Chapman seating has had its seats refreshed.

I must admit, I hadn't been aware that the chapman seating was to have been recycled into the 150's, which would have at least got decent seating into the 150's. Perhaps modern seating with minimal padding might be better suited to the sorts of journeys 150's are supposed to end up on.

 

[Mathew S]

I must admit, I hadn't been aware that the chapman seating was to have been recycled into the 150's, which would have at least got decent seating into the 150's. Perhaps modern seating with minimal padding might be better suited to the sorts of journeys 150's are supposed to end up on.

The refurbed seating we're seeing in the 150s (the light blue things) are pretty comfortable actually. The fabric, though, is already showing wear in some places, which is rather less than excellent.

 

[yorksrob]

The refurbed seating we're seeing in the 150s (the light blue things) are pretty comfortable actually. The fabric, though, is already showing wear in some places, which is rather less than excellent.

The problem is that they have 3+2 airline seating, which isn't really suitable even for rush hour loadings. And anything that's likely to be on a long journey, a table would be useful.

 

[Mathew S]

The problem is that they have 3+2 airline seating, which isn't really suitable even for rush hour loadings. And anything that's likely to be on a long journey, a table would be useful.

Yes, completely agree with that.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

We don't know for certain what the diagrams will be. While we know platform lengthening plans, that doesn't give away the full plan. For example, Northern obviously plan to use 3 car 150s on the Penistone Line but it might be only one Penistone Line diagram will have 3 cars and the rest will have 2 or it could be that all diagrams will have 3 cars.

It'd be better if all of the Penistone Line diagrams were ran with 3 car 150's, because of the scrum that happens at Meadowhall and is relived at Barnsley.

Leeds to Huddersfield via Halifax and Leeds to Knottingley / Goole could be another two routes where 3 car 150's could work their way on.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It'd be better if all of the Penistone Line diagrams were ran with 3 car 150's, because of the scrum that happens at Meadowhall and is relived at Barnsley.

Leeds to Huddersfield via Halifax and Leeds to Knottingley / Goole could be another two routes where 3 car 150's could work their way on.

Do we know how many 3-car 150s will be created? From what I can gather, they'll be based at Neville Hill and used on the "lowest tier" West Yorkshire locals which will include those listed. Penistone currently is almost entirely 3-car 144s, and it wouldn't surprise me to see the 3-car 150s in the same role. If there's still going to be the evening extra formed from an arrival from Leeds via Bradford, I'd expect that to be a 3-car 150.

150s aren't ideal but they are adequate. The idea that they'd be refitted with a more "regional" interior is rather fanciful though. Avoiding airline seats on the '3' side would be nice, but again unlikely.

 

[superkev]

This thread (and much of the whole forum) seems obsessed with seats.
The latest buses mag shows lots of interurban buses which look much superior to Northerns hard knees under your chin spacing. The railways need to watch out.
Eg at http://transportdesigned.com/the-pioneer-is-back-riding-redefined-in-harrogate/
K