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Is Camelon station worth retaining?

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reb0118

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At school in Falkirk (1960s)..... O’levels,

What are these mythical qualifications of which you speak? Although things may have been different in the 1960's I'm sure that the only Scottish school to offer O' Levels was/is Fettes (alma mater of James Bond & Tony Blair no less). Camelon is synonymous with Camelot (cf Arthur's Oon at Stenhousemuir). Camelot was rumoured to be situated at or near the Roman Wall. There is a local drinking establishment known as the Roman Wall situated a few hundred yards from Camelon Station itself - conclusive proof if any was in fact needed.
 
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Stopper

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Does that include our non paying bretheren? Fare evasion is rife on the axis Polmont - Grahamston - Camelon - Larbert.

Fare evasion is quite bad even as far as Linlithgow. But still, all of those stations are a lot better used than Camelon.
 

kilonewton

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Is it fare evasion to intend on buying a ticket on the train, but not have the opportunity to before you get off? Say from Linlithgow to Camelon on a Easter Monday.
Asking for a friend.
 

reb0118

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Is it fare evasion to intend on buying a ticket on the train, but not have the opportunity to before you get off? Say from Linlithgow to Camelon on a Easter Monday.
Asking for a friend.

Linlithgow is generally staffed and there are at least three TVMs available so you should use these prior to boarding.
 

Stopper

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Is it fare evasion to intend on buying a ticket on the train, but not have the opportunity to before you get off? Say from Linlithgow to Camelon on a Easter Monday.
Asking for a friend.

Well, since there’s a machine and an office at Linlithgow I’d say it is, but if there’s nobody on the train to check then it’s ScotRail’s fault IMO.

There’s hardly ever anyone checking tickets on Dunblane trains off-peak. You could easily travel between Linlithgow, Polmont, Grahamston, Camelon, Larbert, Bridge of Allan and Dunblane without paying.

When I used to go to Stirling uni I had a pass between Linlithgow and Stirling which was checked only about 20% of the time even in peak times. Stirling has barriers but I could have easily gone to Bridge of Allan for free and just walked.

I often wonder whether Larbet’s high passenger numbers are anything to do with people travelling from Linlithgow, Polmont, Falkirk stations and Croy/Lenzie to Stirling, just buying a ticket at Stirling and saying they got on at Larbert. I certainly used to hear a few people doing that.
 

Mojo

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It’s also a short walk to the Falkirk Wheel which is a major tourist attraction. I used the station two years ago when we went there.
 

gsnedders

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What are these mythical qualifications of which you speak? Although things may have been different in the 1960's I'm sure that the only Scottish school to offer O' Levels was/is Fettes (alma mater of James Bond & Tony Blair no less).
Other private schools in Scotland definitely offered O Levels, especially those boarding schools, and many of them still follow the English curriculum.
 

Starmill

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I guess you are asking is it worth keeping?

There are probably better locations to have trains stop at than Camelon. However, the station is established and has been around for years, and has enough users and people making interchanges that closure would be a bit crazy. There is no doubt that faster journeys between Edinburgh and Stirling are a priority, though as they are very slow at present. They are being seeded up by dropping Polmont and Linlithgow calls instead of Camelon though which is again somewhat counter-intuitive but likely results in a better overall use of track capacity.

It's also quite very counter-intuitive, for example, that there is a station at Camelon and not at Bonnybridge, which has less good access to rail. But the historic service pattern and local influence meant that a station was built at Camelon and not Bonnybridge.

This part of Scotland needs more stations, not fewer.

I do find the proposed 4tph to Edinburgh a bit surprising though. It seems like an awful lot, and I would have thought that only 1 of each route (towards Glasgow and towards Dunblane) would really need to call there, but removing the stops after they have been introduced would probably ruin connections or create odd gaps in the standard pattern elsewhere.
 

Hackneyite

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What are these mythical qualifications of which you speak? Although things may have been different in the 1960's I'm sure that the only Scottish school to offer O' Levels was/is Fettes (alma mater of James Bond & Tony Blair no less). Camelon is synonymous with Camelot (cf Arthur's Oon at Stenhousemuir). Camelot was rumoured to be situated at or near the Roman Wall. There is a local drinking establishment known as the Roman Wall situated a few hundred yards from Camelon Station itself - conclusive proof if any was in fact needed.
With the greatest possible respect, you don’t know the Scottish education system: I obtained O’levels at a Falkirk school in the mid 60s! Should you have been thinking of A’levels you might have had a point. The Scottish progression was to Highers. BTW there is no connection between Camelon and Camelot!
 

Bertie the bus

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It’s also a short walk to the Falkirk Wheel which is a major tourist attraction. I used the station two years ago when we went there.

I was going to say the same thing, though it is a short walk through a rather unloved looking housing estate which might put some off. However, I wonder if they renamed or rebranded it 'Camelon for the Falkirk Wheel' if that would increase passenger numbers.
 

InOban

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With the greatest possible respect, you don’t know the Scottish education system: I obtained O’levels at a Falkirk school in the mid 60s! Should you have been thinking of A’levels you might have had a point. The Scottish progression was to Highers. BTW there is no connection between Camelon and Camelot!
They weren't O-levels, they were O-grades. Replaced Lowers when the leaving age was increased.
 

Mojo

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I was going to say the same thing, though it is a short walk through a rather unloved looking housing estate which might put some off. However, I wonder if they renamed or rebranded it 'Camelon for the Falkirk Wheel' if that would increase patronage.
I don’t remember a housing estate; just seemed to be along a main road. We did however get to walk past the ADL bus facility where I got a glimpse of a brand new bus exiting the site for its first ever run, complete with “Reading Bus” branding.
 

route:oxford

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I was going to say the same thing, though it is a short walk through a rather unloved looking housing estate which might put some off. However, I wonder if they renamed or rebranded it 'Camelon for the Falkirk Wheel' if that would increase passenger numbers.
Or "Camelon for the Falkirk Crematorium"
 

Bertie the bus

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I don’t remember a housing estate; just seemed to be along a main road. We did however get to walk past the ADL bus facility where I got a glimpse of a brand new bus exiting the site for its first ever run, complete with “Reading Bus” branding.
There must be more than one way of getting there as I went to Tesco, crossed over and through a housing estate to a public footpath. No buses in sight.
 

route:oxford

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At the risk of upsetting Falkirk. The number is passengers I see boarding or alightinging at Camelon is rarely more than the fingers of one hand at peak times.

As it is often over an hour between services from Glasgow Queen Street to Dunblane/Bridge of Allan, one of the benefits of Camelon is the ability to take a service from Queen Street and change to a Dunblane service from Edinburgh.

National Rail Enquries recommends this route at 15:22 with a change at Camelon.

At 16:23 it recommends the unusual routing of Queen Street - Falkirk Grahamston - Dunblane when the service stops at Camelon in each direction.
 

Stopper

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You could also get the train a few minutes before from Queen Street to Stirling to allow more time for a possible delay.

I think we’ve all come to the conclusion here that Camelon is worth retaining.
 

Chrism20

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I think we’ve all come to the conclusion here that Camelon is worth retaining.

I’d say so.

Given that Breich with circa 50 passengers in a year has had a reprieve and is potentially getting more services there isn’t a cat in hells chance of Camelon with 132k getting a service cut.
 

yorkie

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National Rail Enquries recommends this route at 15:22 with a change at Camelon.

At 16:23 it recommends the unusual routing of Queen Street - Falkirk Grahamston - Dunblane when the service stops at Camelon in each direction.
That's correct and to be expected.

Journey planners will suggest a double-back to a more major station, if the interchange time allows, and if there are no fares implications (in this case, the deviation via Falkirk is within 3 miles of the shortest route, and if using mapped routes, it's a valid doubleback within Falkirk Group).

You'll get similar results with Thornaby-Middlesbrough, Seamer-Scarborough, Haymarket-Waverley etc...
 

oldman

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Maybe correct, maybe not the best advice - 6 minute change at Falkirk versus 12 at Camelon.
 

Stopper

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I’d say so.

Given that Breich with circa 50 passengers in a year has had a reprieve and is potentially getting more services there isn’t a cat in hells chance of Camelon with 132k getting a service cut.

The only reason people are even talking about this is due to it being a fairly low-usage station in a very high-usage area of stations.
 

170401

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A huge factor in the usage of Camelon station not considered yet is the extremely close proximity of Forth Valley Sensory Centre. Many of the users of this facility travel to and from it by rail and many of their numbers will not be included in station usage data because they are not issued with tickets.

It would take a very brave (stupid) politician to even suggest taking away their rail link.
 

170401

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Is it fare evasion to intend on buying a ticket on the train, but not have the opportunity to before you get off? Say from Linlithgow to Camelon on a Easter Monday.
Asking for a friend.

If you walk past an opportunity to pay then you are quite clearly intent on avoiding payment. An awful lot of people are in for an awfully nasty shock regarding this on this route in the near future.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Thanks for that. So simplistic arithmetic. That's on average 363 people a day

It gets about 34 stops from the Dunblane service each way, that's 70 stops on that service alone , so daily average of 5 per train stop. Add the other services It gets. My guesstimate of fingers on one hand looks spot on. Perhaps 3 passengers per train stop

Yes. Granted saves two minutes, but it all helps. One less station to maintain. The town is very well served

May I as one resident outside Scotland come into this debate, noting your comments about the passenger footfall at Camelon, coupled with a possible closure aspiration, by reminding you of what was said about such matters in the public consultation on the possible closure of Breich station on the Shotts Line. However, you will be aware that particular station was granted a reprieve from closure.
 
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