Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[hexagon789]

It would be ironic if the main line electrics can use Sprinter differentials but the branch line bi-modes can't.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

 

[87015]

Is there doubt that they will be then?

Yes, massively. It’s on the list of bid promises that don’t match reality...

 

[James James]

Indeed, although the extra axle load isn't as much as you might expect because (1) the body sections are usually a bit shorter therefore lighter than normal coaches, and (2) having fewer bogies the total train weight is also less than a conventional train of the same length.

I suspect any problem with differentials for the Flirts will be more about the axle loading of the "power pack", which carries the the diesel engine and associated kit and also has a body module hung off each end, although I don't think it has traction motors. It would be ironic if the main line electrics can use Sprinter differentials but the branch line bi-modes can't.

The power pack has 2 bogies on the UK version though, which should reduce axle load. And Flirts are fairly light machines to boot (major weight is either by the cabs which have their own bogies, or in the power pack with 2 bogies).

 

[jopsuk]

And Flirts are fairly light machines to boot.

Well, it would be a bit of mis-selling otherwise, that "L" is for "Light" (or "Leichter" originally)

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, massively. It’s on the list of bid promises that don’t match reality...

We'l that's not very good to say the least. What other promises have they broken, so to speak?

 

[47421]

What about the following requirements of the Franchise Agreement. Anyone know if the work re SDO on 317s has happened? Been no progress on the required platform lengthening AFAIK

Automatic Selective Door Operation Installation
9.1 By no later than 31 October 2018, the Franchisee shall incur expenditure of not less than [REDACTED35] to ensure that Automatic Selective Door Opening technology is operational on twenty seven (27) Class 317 units (the "Class 317 Upgrade Units"), the provision of such Automatic Selective Door Opening technology to encompass correct side door enable and the installation of trackside beacons to ninety six (96) platforms.


105.2 Pursuant to paragraph 105.1 such changes to the infrastructure shall include such infrastructure works at each of Hertford East, Wickford, Manningtree, Kings Lynn, Elsenham, Ware, St Margarets and Enfield Lock Stations as are necessary to enable any Passenger Services comprised of 10 rolling stock vehicles to call at such Stations by no later than 1 September 2018

 

[MrPIC]

The first cab end has been made up, showing slightly what the flirts will look like---->
https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/the-face-of-ga-s-new-bi-mode-units-unveiled

 

[TheEdge]

It would be ironic if the main line electrics can use Sprinter differentials but the branch line bi-modes can't.

It wouldn't be ironic, there are a lot of Sprinter differentials across the AGA rural network, Norwich - Cambridge and Norwich - Sheringham spring to mind, so seriously problematic is the term you are looking for.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It wouldn't be ironic, there are a lot of Sprinter differentials across the AGA rural network, Norwich - Cambridge and Norwich - Sheringham spring to mind, so seriously problematic is the term you are looking for.

How significant are the differentials? Can it be that, like say the heavyweight Class 185s that also can't use Sprinter differentials, the fact that FLIRTs accelerate like the proverbial off a shovel may actually make up all the time on a stopping branch line service?

 

[hexagon789]

How significant are the differentials? Can it be that, like say the heavyweight Class 185s that also can't use Sprinter differentials, the fact that FLIRTs accelerate like the proverbial off a shovel may actually make up all the time on a stopping branch line service?

Norwich-Cambridge is 75 max without differentials, 90 with & the Cromer/Sheringham line is 55/75 without/with SP speeds, it really depends as you say how quick the Flirts are from a stand. The electric ones on the continent are pretty nippy indeed.

 

[Railperf]

Norwich-Cambridge is 75 max without differentials, 90 with & the Cromer/Sheringham line is 55/75 without/with SP speeds, it really depends as you say how quick the Flirts are from a stand. The electric ones on the continent are pretty nippy indeed.

Nippy indeed..as fast as a 345 to 60mph. Isnt the sprjnter differential also down to braking capability as well as weight?

 

[100andthirty]

At a public meeting earlier in March the Abellio representative confirmed that they are working with Network Rail to allow the FLIRTs to take advantage of Sprinter differentials.

 

[TheEdge]

Norwich-Cambridge is 75 max without differentials, 90 with & the Cromer/Sheringham line is 55/75 without/with SP speeds, it really depends as you say how quick the Flirts are from a stand. The electric ones on the continent are pretty nippy indeed.

Norwich to Cambridge has very long lengths of that, on fairly limited stops I doubt it'll make up for it. Awful lot of areas of 30 on the Sheringham line where the Sprinter speed is 55

 

[hexagon789]

Nippy indeed..as fast as a 345 to 60mph. Isnt the sprjnter differential also down to braking capability as well as weight?

Not sure but 150-156 are tread braked and can run at SP speeds so I don't think that affects it.

 

[hexagon789]

Norwich to Cambridge has very long lengths of that, on fairly limited stops I doubt it'll make up for it. Awful lot of areas of 30 on the Sheringham line where the Sprinter speed is 55

I think it'll be a struggle to keep to existing schedules then, even the most prodigious of acceleration rates isn't going to offset a 15 mph difference in speed over a long distance.

 

[dp21]

The first cab end has been made up, showing slightly what the flirts will look like---->
https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/the-face-of-ga-s-new-bi-mode-units-unveiled

First cab had already been fitted before these images had been released. Looks even better in situ but I have my hands tied about sharing images.

 

[dk1]

Norwich-Cambridge is 75 max without differentials, 90 with & the Cromer/Sheringham line is 55/75 without/with SP speeds, it really depends as you say how quick the Flirts are from a stand. The electric ones on the continent are pretty nippy indeed.

Lakenheath to Ely is 45mph for non-Sprinter speeds. That's the reason the short hauled set is not permitted to operate this route. That really would hit the timings of the Stansted 755s.

 

[hexagon789]

Lakenheath to Ely is 45mph for non-Sprinter speeds. That's the reason the short hauled set is not permitted to operate this route. That really would hit the timings of the Stansted 755s.

What's the SP differential on that route?

 

[dk1]

What's the SP differential on that route?

SP speeds are basically 90 Spooner-Attleborough, 80 Eccles-Harling, 90 Harling-Thetford, 80/90 Thetford-Lakenheath, 75 Lakenheath-Ely North Jcn.

 

[hexagon789]

SP speeds are basically 90 Spooner-Attleborough, 80 Eccles-Harling, 90 Harling-Thetford, 80/90 Thetford-Lakenheath, 75 Lakenheath-Ely North Jcn.

Thank you, but I was referring to your comment on the Stansted 755s being affected, won't these only be used on the Stansted Express normally? Therefore, I was meaning the differentials (presumably EMU?) on the line out to Stansted etc.

 

[dk1]

Thank you, but I was referring to your comment on the Stansted 755s being affected, won't these only be used on the Stansted Express normally? Therefore, I was meaning the differentials (presumably EMU?) on the line out to Stansted etc.

The Stansted Express units are class 745 I believe. The bimode units to be used on the Norwich-Stansted route will be 755/3 & 755/4 depending on whether 3 or 4 car sets.

 

[hexagon789]

The Stansted Express units are class 745 I believe. The bimode units to be used on the Norwich-Stansted route will be 755/3 & 755/4 depending on whether 3 or 4 car sets.

Is that a new service then, Stansted-Norwich?

 

[dk1]

Is that a new service then, Stansted-Norwich?

Extending the Norwich-Cambridge service through to the airport is a franchise commitment.

 

[hexagon789]

Extending the Norwich-Cambridge service through to the airport is a franchise commitment.

Wasn't aware of that, so the 755s will do that service and the 745s the Stansted Express.

 

[dk1]

Wasn't aware of that, so the 755s will do that service and the 745s the Stansted Express.

Yes. All local trains will be 755s with 745/0 covering Norwich-London Intercity & 745/1 on the Stansted Express. The Norwich units are the only sets to offer 1st class & will also have a buffet.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes. All local trains will be 755s with 745/0 covering Norwich-London Intercity & 745/1 on the Stansted Express. The Norwich units are the only sets to offer 1st class & will also have a buffet.

I can understand going Standard only on local services but the Stansted Express does surprise me a bit.

 

[dp21]

I can understand going Standard only on local services but the Stansted Express does surprise me a bit.

From what I've heard the STEX doesn't have much take up for 1st so going all standard provides more seats for customers especially in peak times.

 

[hexagon789]

From what I've heard the STEX doesn't have much take up for 1st so going all standard provides more seats for customers especially in peak times.

If there's no demand then it definitely makes sense, I was just under the impression that the demand was there, at least peak times.

 

[dk1]

If there's no demand then it definitely makes sense, I was just under the impression that the demand was there, at least peak times.

1st class will be abolished on all of the West Anglia, Clacton, Southend & any of the old GE Routes.

 

[hexagon789]

1st class will be abolished on all of the West Anglia, Clacton, Southend & any of the old GE Routes.

Leaving just London-Norwich. Certainly the 170s never seem to be well used in First from what I understand.