RAC says new headlights 'blinding drivers'

[Peter Mugridge]

The 158/SWR455 light cluster is a fairly standard cluster that can also be found on 323s, sprinters, pacers, and many other fleets which were initially fitted with the old style clusters with vertical rectangular marker lights. On 158s they are inside of a recess so should be reasonably directional, but most of the other fleets have them sat protruding like the 455s but I can't say I'd ever heard about them casting light sideways particularly.

I'll try to get a picture to show you what I mean, but it won't come out very well...

 

[al78]

There does seem to be a ridiculous headlight war over the last 20 years or so, as though there is a competition as to who can outshine everyone else. It can be bad when I'm cycling home from work in winter along the country lanes, and drivers can't be bothered to dip, or seem to have their lights badly aligned (road summits can be particularly bad). I can sympathise to a point regarding the comments on flashing bicycle lights, as I've tended to avoid these as I'm not sure whether they help, and the flashing increases visibility but makes it harder to judge the cyclist's position and speed. Some cyclists have very bright lights, which are only suitable for off-road night cycling, and should only be used on low power mode on road, but some seem to have gone the way of brighter is better. If cyclists could rely on drivers paying attention and looking out for them (i.e. properly, not a quick glance, oh well there is no large object therefore it is safe to pull out), then cyclists would not feel the need for bright lights or flashing lights, so perhaps you should call out careless drivers before blaming cyclists for trying to takle measures to reduce the risk of a life threatening collision.

 

[alexl92]

My old eyes are not keen on LED lights, my biggest worry is not the dazzle but the fact that the area beyond the light source is totally blacked out. If an object ( vehicle sideways on, pedestrian, animal, even an LED cyclist) is behind or side on to the approaching light I am worried that I will not see them.

This, over and over again. It's getting to the stage where on narrower roads I'm having to almost stop because I just cannot see anything at all beyond the oncoming vehicle. And I'm 25 with near-perfect eyesight.

Maybe it's time cars had 4 light settings - sidelights, urban, dipped and full? Where urban would be more comparable to dipped of 20 years ago - bright enough to be seen and to light the road in front, but not so bright as to dazzle.

 

[stut]

Agh, is nowhere safe?

LED lights are a massive migraine trigger for me, so this is a major pain.

 

[The Ham]

Of course this is often pointless as most road users are completely unaware of how and when to use front fog lights so their benefit is removed.

Based on observation of many car drivers front fog lights should be used at all times when your dipped headlights are on...

 

[dk1]

Class 68 headlights can seem a tad bright when approaching me but they often 'dip' them. Apart from that (& that's not really a problem really) I never have a problem with any train I pass.

 

[talltim]

I can still remember having blind spots some 20 minutes after being behind a Porsche with an LED brake light. It was before I left home so at least 18 years ago.

 

[Shunter_69]

IETs are pretty bright. Went past a 345 the other day and that was dazzling in the middle of a sunny day, so I’m dreading seeing one at night. See also some more modern green signals.

315’s are much worse at night than the 345’s. As someone said above, the 315’s seemed to have been fitted with a searchlight.

 

[341o2]

There does seem to be a ridiculous headlight war over the last 20 years or so, as though there is a competition as to who can outshine everyone else. It can be bad when I'm cycling home from work in winter along the country lanes, and drivers can't be bothered to dip, or seem to have their lights badly aligned (road summits can be particularly bad). I can sympathise to a point regarding the comments on flashing bicycle lights, as I've tended to avoid these as I'm not sure whether they help, and the flashing increases visibility but makes it harder to judge the cyclist's position and speed. Some cyclists have very bright lights, which are only suitable for off-road night cycling, and should only be used on low power mode on road, but some seem to have gone the way of brighter is better. If cyclists could rely on drivers paying attention and looking out for them (i.e. properly, not a quick glance, oh well there is no large object therefore it is safe to pull out), then cyclists would not feel the need for bright lights or flashing lights, so perhaps you should call out careless drivers before blaming cyclists for trying to takle measures to reduce the risk of a life threatening collision.

May I suggest Hi-viz is much better than flashing lights which are a distraction. Glad to see this subject brought up, I now try to avoid night time driving because of bright lights, especially as in this area there are free roaming animals on the road. Like the van driver I encountered on a narrow unlit road with both dipped (?) lights and foglights

 

[341o2]

Based on observation of many car drivers front fog lights should be used at all times when your dipped headlights are on...

I've encountered foglights being used when the sun is shining, and a couple using frount foglights only - no illumination to the rear

 

[mpthomson]

I've encountered foglights being used when the sun is shining, and a couple using frount foglights only - no illumination to the rear

I suspect that these are daytime running lights, rather than fog lights as in nearly all modern cars it's impossible to have fog lights on without the normal lights being on front and rear. As an example I have a Skoda Superb that has automatic lights and daytime running lights. These are the front fog/driving lights but operating at a lower power on a different bulb so they're not as bright.

As the lights are automatic if the car has been in to the garage or similar I have to remember to put the lights back on to automatic, as the garage will change the setting to manual, meaning that it's possible to drive with what appears to be front fogs on (they're not, it's a different bulb in the same housing) without any other illumination.

Hope that makes sense!

 

[87 027]

Daytime running lights have been mandatory for new cars since February 2011

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/daytime-running-lights

 

[dgl]

And as one Vauxhall buyer found out, daytime running lights can just be sidelights on all the time, not fancy LED's.

 

[mpthomson]

And as one Vauxhall buyer found out, daytime running lights can just be sidelights on all the time, not fancy LED's.

There’s nothing ‘fancy’ about LEDs .....

 

[route:oxford]

I don't have an issue with LED lights, they produce a great deal of light for very low power - which is fantastic.

Sadly their implementation is very poorly thought out. Yesterday, I went into a retailer to buy some disposable holiday clothing. The upper menswear floor is lit by LED spotlights - each around 45-50 cm above my head. I couldn't see most of the stock as I had spots in my eyes from the brightness of the LEDs and with my eyes pinpointing couldn't see the anything at ground level in the gloom that was created by having spotlights rather than diffused lighting.

Two weeks ago, at a pedestrian crossing on Oxford Road:-

https://goo.gl/maps/XTtcr3rcY2N2

It was wild and wet, and dark. With the intense LED above the shiny wet road, the pedestrians in dark clothing on the crossing completely disappeared in the glare off the road. If one of them hadn't been frobbing their mobile phones, I would never have seen them.

I'm also finding that a motorbike or bike, driving/riding in front of a bus, can completely disappear in the glare of a bus's headlights.

That's all a bit OT

I should add then that the intense white lights in a station can result in my eyes pinpointing at night with the consequence that anything in the shadows can become invisible, this could include bridge steps or junkies in doorways.

 

[Ianno87]

Daytime running lights have been mandatory for new cars since February 2011

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/daytime-running-lights

New *types* of cars. My 2012-built Yaris didn't have them (the model design predating 2011)

 

[randyrippley]

The LO 317 and 315s have an odd modification Rather than being fitted with headlights they've had either 1940s searchlights or orbital lasers fitted.

Those are not comfortable to pass.

must be lasers...........last I heard there were only seven of those WWII searchlights left working, used for fireworks events and similar

 

[pompeyfan]

must be lasers...........last I heard there were only seven of those WWII searchlights left working, used for fireworks events and similar

Can anyone please link a picture of said modification please?

 

[E_Reeves]

I've found class 88s to be rather bright, so much I couldn't see the number!

 

[D365]

There’s nothing ‘fancy’ about LEDs .....

In car terms they are, they’ve only started to appear on new builds this side of the decade...

I’m in total agreement about the dazzling issue, especially with the “pretend SUVs” (I’m looking at you, Nissan) that seem to be all the rage at the minute.

 

[EssexGonzo]

Re cars - whilst the brightness, colour temperature and type of source are often issues, my own observations are that the type of lens/projector and adjustment level are greater factors casing glare.

Modern car lenses used with LED / HID tend to be small projector units which have a very sharp cut-off when dipped. It's unforgiving and any road undulations cause the instant glare which would have been more gradual with halogen bulbs. On top of that, the manufacturers who charge thousands for these options give them the longest possible range by adjusting them to only just below the glaring point at the legal distance range to show punters that they're lighting up more of the road and that it was a worthwhile purchase.

On top of that, the auto-dip systems that these lights nearly always come with are rubbish. My wife's car has LED lights and auto-dip and when in use (which is never now), it dazzles someone 100% of the time. Some of these things should not be allowed.

 

[LAX54]

Daytime running lights have been mandatory for new cars since February 2011

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/daytime-running-lights

Can still have 17 and 67 plate cars with no DRL tho

 

[whhistle]

Maybe it's time cars had 4 light settings - sidelights, urban, dipped and full?

Most people barely understand their vehicle lights as it is.
It's just laze.

I personally read through the manuals for everything... the TV, Washing Machine, Dishwasher and Car. It means I know what settings to use, when, and how to get the best set up from the device.
But people don't want to spend the time doing this, so don't bother.

I drove a Vauxhall car at one point. When switching the car on, it automatically put the driving lights on. Turning the side lights on gave a lower light beam strength than the DRLs. So I then questioned the point in the side lights as nobody parks up and leaves side lights on these days.

I made a post once about DRLs but was shot down by some who said they were "safer". I retored that during the days where the sun is out and it's pretty bright, you'd be hard pushed to NOT see any car with or without lights.
Some of these DRLs are also far too bright.

 

[PeterC]

I made a post once about DRLs but was shot down by some who said they were "safer". I retored that during the days where the sun is out and it's pretty bright, you'd be hard pushed to NOT see any car with or without lights.
Some of these DRLs are also far too bright.

Where I live there are some very heavily wooded areas and on a bright sunny day the contrast means that you can't always see what is under the trees. Before I had a car with DRLs I always made a point of driving with the lights on anywhere away from an A road.

 

[Domh245]

Can still have 17 and 67 plate cars with no DRL tho

What the post you're responding to should have said is "new types of car" - so if those new 17 and 67 reg cars haven't got DRLs, it's because they were designed, introduced, certified (and the rest of it) before February 2011

 

[87 027]

Correct. As the gov.uk link makes clear, "new" means new models, no requirement to to retrofit to existing cars including models from before the change that haven't been updated and are still on sale.

Some EU countries require headlights in daytime for cars not fitted with DRLs.

 

[whhistle]

The problem with DRLs is they're not really needed.
I mean, having lights on in this scene wouldn't make any difference:

Lights on in the sunshine? Not exactly efficient is it :P

 

[trainmania100]

There's always someone who has full beam on when I'm driving home Friday nights it completely blinds you and I can't see where I'm driving good thing the clocks have changed and I can see in the evenings now

 

[mallard]

It seems to be a general fallacy with advances in lighting technology that brighter is always better. Just because new LEDs mean you can have 5x the brightness for a tenth of the power requirement doesn't mean you should...

 

[antharro]

Back in the late 80ies/early 90ies, UK cars had "dim-dip" - dip beam headlights but run at around 20% of normal brightness. So more than a sidelight, less than dip beam. A good way of making your car that little bit more visible but without blinding someone. It was killed off by the EC as it wasn't an EC regulation (i.e., the UK had come up with it alone). I had it on a Honda Accord and it seemed to be a very good idea.

I also hate the brightness of headlights and taillights on modern cars. I particularly hate certain models of Mercedes - the tail lights are absolutely blinding, and with most of them being automatic, the drivers tend to sit on the brakes at junctions, traffic lights, etc. Modern emergency vehicles are also too bright. They need to be brighter than the old rotating blue light, but the current LED lights mounted on modern emergency vehicles are ridiculously bright, to the point where my vision is impaired for a short while after it's passed.