Chester - Milton Keynes - London

[sjb-2812]

As both tickets will already be held, why not show both at the gateline at Euston (to make it clear that you're not alighting) - or will that cause more hassle?

 

[AlterEgo]

As both tickets will already be held, why not show both at the gateline at Euston (to make it clear that you're not alighting) - or will that cause more hassle?

This is exactly what I would suggest (though I cannot guarantee it will work).

Showing the combination of tickets should satisfy any reasonable member of staff that the OP does not intend to alight at Milton Keynes. It is only the physical action of alighting that is banned under the timetable and is not in any way a ticket restriction.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

No. The principle is quote the opposite - two or more tickets can be used to make one journey. One journey is being made. Both tickets are valid together under this condition.

I agree with this whole heartedly ......

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is exactly what I would suggest (though I cannot guarantee it will work).

Showing the combination of tickets should satisfy any reasonable member of staff that the OP does not intend to alight at Milton Keynes. It is only the physical action of alighting that is banned under the timetable and is not in any way a ticket restriction.

But knowing the Euston barrier staff (and knowing that I actually don't agree with you) the OP would be ill-advised to rely on this and would be best planning to take a LNR service to MKC and change.

I know the purpose of it is avoiding peak crowding, but it will also be seen as avoiding peak restrictions. Indeed, you could argue that because you are *boarding* at Euston the peak restrictions apply and the ticket from MKC is not valid, in any case.

 

[yorkie]

But knowing the Euston barrier staff (and knowing that I actually don't agree with you) the OP would be ill-advised to rely on this and would be best planning to take a LNR service to MKC and change.

On the contrary. Let's put this to the test: if they refuse to accept it, lets escalate the matter, and put in a Delay Repay claim.

If it was me, I would obtain a reservation on the MKC-CTR train (ideally at the time of purchase, to demonstrate the contract clearly being to take that train from the outset); this demonstrates validity on that service, as well as the fact that the train does "call" there.

I know the purpose of it is avoiding peak crowding, but it will also be seen as avoiding peak restrictions. Indeed, you could argue that because you are *boarding* at Euston the peak restrictions apply and the ticket from MKC is not valid, in any case.

This is totally incorrect.

The ticket restrictions for a ticket not held do not come into it. The ticket restrictions are what they are. Condition 15 of the Conditions of Travel is what it is.

You cannot make up your own rules. Neither can the Euston gateline.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The ticket restrictions for a ticket not held do not come into it. The ticket restrictions are what they are. Condition 15 of the Conditions of Travel is what it is.

The same restriction code applies for tickets from Euston to the North West as MKC to the North West. It has sections for boarding at each station (it actually says "trains from" but clearly means "boarding at" otherwise it does not make sense). Arguably in this case you have boarded at Euston, not MKC.

 

[yorkie]

The same restriction code applies for tickets from Euston to the North West as MKC to the North West. It has sections for boarding at each station. Arguably in this case you have boarded at Euston, not MKC.

It would be illegal for Virgin Trains to deny a passenger holding a Milton Keynes to Chester Off Peak Return from travelling on the 1641 from Milton Keynes to Chester. That's because that ticket cannot have evening peak restrictions applied to it, under fares regulation.

I would ensure that a reservation was held, demonstrating validity.

Are you saying that a passenger travelling from London to York cannot use a Peterborough to York ticket for travel between Peterborough and York on a train that happened to leave London at a time that was considered "peak" for a London to York ticket, if they were combining tickets at Peterborough and had another ticket between London and Peterborough? (If you are, you are incorrect!)

 

[AlterEgo]

But knowing the Euston barrier staff (and knowing that I actually don't agree with you) the OP would be ill-advised to rely on this and would be best planning to take a LNR service to MKC and change.

I know the purpose of it is avoiding peak crowding, but it will also be seen as avoiding peak restrictions. Indeed, you could argue that because you are *boarding* at Euston the peak restrictions apply and the ticket from MKC is not valid, in any case.

I get the point. I don't necessarily agree that it's a contravention of peak restrictions (IIRC this came up in a different thread recently where I was successfully persuaded that it wouldn't be).

However I agree that you should expect to be denied boarding if you try this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be illegal for Virgin Trains to deny a passenger holding a Milton Keynes to Chester Off Peak Return from travelling on the 1641 from Milton Keynes to Chester. That's because that ticket cannot have evening peak restrictions applied to it, under fares regulation.

Is that the actual wording on the franchise agreement restriction (which I agree exists), or is the wording that passengers travelling from/boarding at Milton Keynes Central cannot have evening peak restrictions placed on them? A subtle but key difference.

But anyway this is a bit moot - I would be near certain the OP would find themselves being unable to board, unless they were lucky enough to find that no check was carried out on that train as is sometimes the case. If the journey is important, therefore, relying on this is a bad idea. Of course, if they don't mind if they don't travel and would happily pursue compensation, it may be worth a go, but I suspect their timely journey is a bit more important than making a point over an hour's Delay Repay.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I don't really think we should be encouraging Virgin to apply evening northbound peak fairs from Milton Keynes, yes there is a workable split but it involves using LNWR from Euston to Milton Keynes

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't really think we should be encouraging Virgin to apply evening northbound peak fairs from Milton Keynes

They can't, their franchise agreement precludes doing so. If they could I'm certain they would. Indeed, they tried and had to remove them.

yes there is a workable split but it involves using LNWR from Euston to Milton Keynes

That is my opinion, yes, though not that of others.