Chester - Milton Keynes - London

[BangOnBeef]

I have an off peak return from Chester to MKC leaving Chester on Thursday Night and planned return was the 1841 from MKC to Chester on Friday. Work plans have changed and I now need to pop to Euston for a second meeting. I plan to get the 1602 from MKC to Euston and was hoping to get the 1810 back to Milton Keynes (using an Anytime Return) and then onto Chester but the 1810 doesn't show on any journey planners. Will it be alright to get this service with split ticketing at Euston?

Thanks in anticipation of a speedy response

 

[AlterEgo]

Can you confirm exactly which tickets you’ll hold?

 

[BangOnBeef]

Hi, an Off Peak return Chester - MKC and an Anytime Return MKC - Euston. However the latter tickets have not yet been booked.

 

[A0]

Looking on VT's timetable - I don't think you can't do what you want.

The reason being the 18.10 from Euston is marked as 'U' at Milton Keynes which is pick up only, so your ticket from Euston - MK would be invalid.

Your off-peak Chester - MKC ticket should be fine though.

 

[AlterEgo]

Looking on VT's timetable - I don't think you can't do what you want.

The reason being the 18.10 from Euston is marked as 'U' at Milton Keynes which is pick up only, so your ticket from Euston - MK would be invalid.

Your off-peak Chester - MKC ticket should be fine though.

It’s unclear whether this relates to ticketing or the physical act of picking up. The OP doesnt intent on actually setting down at MKC.

I’d say a cautious yes, it’s okay.

 

[Merseysider]

Get the previous service (1749 from EUS) to MKC and pick up your intended train there

 

[Merseysider]

It’s unclear whether this relates to ticketing or the physical act of picking up. The OP doesnt intent on actually setting down at MKC.

I’d say a cautious yes, it’s okay.

VTWC can be quite arsey at Euston and I wouldn’t count on getting through the barriers with a technically invalid ticket

 

[AlterEgo]

VTWC can be quite arsey at Euston and I wouldn’t count on getting through the barriers with a technically invalid ticket

Nor would I.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Inconveniently you will have to go to Milton Keynes on WMT and change there.

Getting a single to Euston and then Excessing your return ticket from Chester is not an option (unless you want to pay mega £) as the Off Peak Returns to Chester are not valid on the 1810 from Euston.

 

[Bletchleyite]

VTWC can be quite arsey at Euston and I wouldn’t count on getting through the barriers with a technically invalid ticket

Pretty certain the OP would not be allowed to board.

 

[Albion91]

Presumably if the service did not call at all at MKC, the split would be valid? Bizarre that he can't board because it calls at his split point!

 

[Merseysider]

Presumably if the service did not call at all at MKC, the split would be valid? Bizarre that he can't board because it calls at his split point!

Not quite right, no.

If one ticket is a season or area-based ticket (eg a rover or ranger) then the train wouldn’t need to stop.

 

[AlterEgo]

Pretty certain the OP would not be allowed to board.

If it happened to me I would challenge it. Denial would be both against the rules as written as well as the spirit of the rules.

 

[causton]

If it happened to me I would challenge it. Denial would be both against the rules as written as well as the spirit of the rules.

In that case I would hope you have a reservation for the 1910!

Unfortunately being right does not mean you will be allowed to board the train. And with what I have experienced in similar situations but a different place, sometimes the colleagues would rather back each other up (e.g. if you asked someone else, then asked the Train Manager) than make sure the decision is actually correct in the first place.

 

[6Gman]

Surely the principle of split-ticketing is that you could make the journey in two stages if you so choose. If your first leg is set-down only then that principle is not met. Get the Desiro!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Surely the principle of split-ticketing is that you could make the journey in two stages if you so choose. If your first leg is set-down only then that principle is not met. Get the Desiro!

You cant set down at MKC on the 1810 therefore any ticket to MKC is invalid regardless of intention thereafter. Its not as though there's a shortage of Desiros heading that way. Or the OP can wait on the 1910....

 

[AlterEgo]

You cant set down at MKC on the 1810 therefore any ticket to MKC is invalid regardless of intention thereafter. Its not as though there's a shortage of Desiros heading that way. Or the OP can wait on the 1910....

The OP is not intending to set down at Milton Keynes. The restriction is not ticket-related.

It simply means you can’t get off there. He isn’t going to get off.

The ticket and combination are valid.

Of course, Euston barrier line will probably hold the same view as you, which unfortunately is the wrong view.

 

[Albion91]

Surely the principle of split-ticketing is that you could make the journey in two stages if you so choose. If your first leg is set-down only then that principle is not met. Get the Desiro!

I don't think so. If so, you would always have to split at a station at which the train calls.

 

[Hadders]

I don't think so. If so, you would always have to split at a station at which the train calls.

The train does need to call at the station where you switch from one ticket to another (season tickets etc excepted but that isn’t relevant here).

The key issue is does a call to pick up only count as a call. Personally I wouldn’t wish to risk it.

 

[Elecman]

Why not ask Virgins Twitter feed or direct chat they are reasonably au fait with these things and if they agree keep the message transaction to show the barrier line staff.?

 

[AlterEgo]

Why not ask Virgins Twitter feed or direct chat they are reasonably au fait with these things and if they agree keep the message transaction to show the barrier line staff.?

Neither of those sources will have a bloody clue.

 

[Elecman]

They did when I had a problem got it sorted for me and thier written advise was accepted by station staff and the respective TM as valid authorisation

 

[AlterEgo]

They did when I had a problem got it sorted for me and thier written advise was accepted by station staff and the respective TM as valid authorisation

Was it about something as specific and technical as whether a set down restriction in the timetable translates to a restriction on the combination of tickets used?

 

[Albion91]

The train does need to call at the station where you switch from one ticket to another (season tickets etc excepted but that isn’t relevant here).

The key issue is does a call to pick up only count as a call. Personally I wouldn’t wish to risk it.

I don't see why the season ticket bit isn't relevant? It shows that often, split tickets are acceptable even if the individual parts are not manageable on that train.

 

[Starmill]

Unfortunately being right does not mean you will be allowed to board the train.

Indeed not. Welcome to the railway industry.

 

[Starmill]

Surely the principle of split-ticketing is that you could make the journey in two stages if you so choose. If your first leg is set-down only then that principle is not met. Get the Desiro!

No. The principle is quote the opposite - two or more tickets can be used to make one journey. One journey is being made. Both tickets are valid together under this condition.

 

[Starmill]

The key issue is does a call to pick up only count as a call.

Yes. Is there evidence that a pick up or set down only call isn't a call? If there is, I'm not aware of it.

 

[Hadders]

I don't see why the season ticket bit isn't relevant? It shows that often, split tickets are acceptable even if the individual parts are not manageable on that train.

These are the conditions applicable to split tickets. In this case the OP isn't using a season ticket so condition 14.1 says the train must call where you change from one ticket to the other. The issue here is does a call to pick up only count as a station call.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/National Rail Conditions of Travel.pdf

14. Using a combination of Tickets
14.1 Unless shown below, you may use a combination of two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train services you use call at the station(s) where you change from one Ticket to another. 1

4.2 If you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger or rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.

14.3 Some Tickets specifically exclude their use in conjunction with other Tickets. This will be made clear in the terms and conditions when buying such Tickets, and you cannot use such a Ticket in conjunction with another except as set out in 14.1 above. 14.4 In all cases you must comply with the specific terms and conditions of each of the Tickets you are using (for example, keeping to the valid route(s) and train services for which each Ticket is valid). It is your responsibility to check that you comply with the Conditions listed above.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

These are the conditions applicable to split tickets. In this case the OP isn't using a season ticket so condition 14.1 says the train must call where you change from one ticket to the other. The issue here is does a call to pick up only count as a station call.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/National Rail Conditions of Travel.pdf

I hate to drone on about it, and I wouldn't want to rely solely on this as a defence to a prosecution, but Section 69 of the Consumer Rights Act resolves any potential different interpretations of 'calls at' in the consumer's favour. So I think for these purposes, the fact that it stops and opens the doors at MKC - whether officially for set down only or pick up only - it counts as a 'calls at'.

 

[AlterEgo]

The train does call at Milton Keynes. There is absolutely no doubt about that fact whatsoever.

The only thing “not standard” about this is the customer may alight at Milton Keynes Central.

He won’t be doing that, so the combination is valid. Even if he did alight there, there is no ticketing penalty that may be applied to him in this situation.

Not only does the combination pass the rules as written, it also abides by the spirit of the rules. The reason the 1810 is pick up only at Milton Keynes is because they don’t want it crammed with commuters coming home from London. The OP is going to Chester.