Expansions for Scotland's rail network proposed

[Highland37]

Thats not how the SOFA works.



I agree its complex. SO why the song-and-dance grievance routine before all the facts were known? The fact that they are being very quiet, rather that celebrating yet another victory for Scotland that shows how the SNP are the only ones looking out for us, suggests they know very well what they said a few months ago was pish.

Or shows they know how to run a good campaign which offsets the huge cuts made by the UK Government which has left pretty much every public service in the UK in quasi crisis most of the time.

The SNP are doing a better job on railways in Scotland than any party before them.

 

[JohnR]

Or shows they know how to run a good campaign which offsets the huge cuts made by the UK Government which has left pretty much every public service in the UK in quasi crisis most of the time.

The SNP are doing a better job on railways in Scotland than any party before them.

When you run a good campaign that succeeds, you tell people about it.

And while trying not to get TOO political, I dont think they're doing a better job, especially as many of their big successes were built on foundations laid by previous administrations. Partly thats the nature of the beast - rail projects take a long time to come to fruition.

 

[clc]

Have just seen the figures in the Scotland Route Strategic Plan which confusingly don’t square with those given by Humza Yousaf in Parliament. According to Network Rail total required income in CP6 will be £5.549 billion and grant income requested from the Scottish Government is £4.844 billion which is what is being made available. So no ‘extra’ money as I originally thought but no shortfall either.

The enhancement projects Network Rail considers most likely to be progressed in CP6 (and presumably included in it’s costings) are:-

Edinburgh Suburban Enhancement programme

Dunblane to Perth corridor enhancements

Carstairs re-modelling

West of Waverley capacity enhancement

Edinburgh Waverley lengthening platforms 1 & 20

Greenhill Junction grade separation

East Kilbride line enhancement / electrification

Prestonpans to Drem four- tracking

https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Scotland-Route-Strategic-Plan.pdf

 

[mcmad]

Have just seen the figures in the Scotland Route Strategic Plan which confusingly don’t square with those given by Humza Yousaf in Parliament. According to Network Rail total required income in CP6 will be £5.549 billion and grant income requested from the Scottish Government is £4.844 billion which is what is being made available. So no ‘extra’ money as I originally thought but no shortfall either.

The 5549 figure is total expenditure including some non SoFA elements, subtracting these takes the figure down to £4.904b but this doesn't (I think) include any new enhancements schemes not already funded. However you need to add on the other funding sources from access charges etc but I don't think there's anything close to the £3b for enhancements in CP6 that you first thought upthread.

edit appendix E shows £950m available for enhancements but it isn't clear if this includes the £132m for projects continuing from CP5 or not. Worst case around £820m for enhancements in CP6?

 

[clc]

Something I’ve been wondering, in projects with ‘renewals synergy’ such as Carstairs remodelling and Dunblane to Perth corridor enhancements how do they decide which elements of the work are charged to the renewals budget as opposed to the enhancements budget? What would a signalling upgrade be classed as for example?

 

[clc]

The 5549 figure is total expenditure including some non SoFA elements, subtracting these takes the figure down to £4.904b but this doesn't (I think) include any new enhancements schemes not already funded. However you need to add on the other funding sources from access charges etc but I don't think there's anything close to the £3b for enhancements in CP6 that you first thought upthread.

edit appendix E shows £950m available for enhancements but it isn't clear if this includes the £132m for projects continuing from CP5 or not. Worst case around £820m for enhancements in CP6?

Yes when doing my fag packet calculation I didn’t factor in operating costs and for some reason assumed the renewals budget included maintenance. £820m for enhancements looks correct.

 

[edwin_m]

Something I’ve been wondering, in projects with ‘renewals synergy’ such as Carstairs remodelling and Dunblane to Perth corridor enhancements how do they decide which elements of the work are charged to the renewals budget as opposed to the enhancements budget? What would a signalling upgrade be classed as for example?

I think they would work out the cost of doing the renewal "like for like" and any extra is an enhancement cost.

 

[Stopper]

No Stirling trains from Polmont and Linlithgow is bonkers like 90% of passengers travelling from the other side of that platform travel to Falkirk and Stirling ect.

I guess the Glasgow service won’t start from Falkirk now?

The whole Scotrail franchise is a disaster now old trains coming in, new trains which are less superior than current ones seating wise...

It is pretty bonkers if you ask me. However passengers from Stirling and Falkirk will enjoy a very lightly loaded service to work, as apart from Stirling passengers, that service is mostly used by Linlithgow/Polmont passengers.

Similarly the E-G via Cumbernauld will probably be very lightly loaded, apart from between Polmont and Edinburgh. EGIP was supposed to bring a better service, instead it has brought a downgrade for 2 of the busiest stations on the actual line, while improving the service of stations on another line.

 

[clc]

East Renfrewshire Council’s budget for the next 3 years includes funding for the new Barrhead South station:

http://www.eastrenfrewshire.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=21976&p=0

 

[Altnabreac]

Rail Enhancements and Capital Investment Strategy for next ten years has been published by Transport Scotland
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/scotland-s-rail-investment-strategy-for-next-decade-published/

As expected it is a pipeline approach with projects being judged by performance against STAG criteria and TS will provide funding to help scheme developers take projects through the GRIP 1&2 stages. On passing GRIP 2 a project will be passed from a local promoter to Transport Scotland who can either Reject the scheme, hold it in suspension or progress the scheme to the Pipeline.

GRIP 3-8 will be lead by Transport Scotland.

The following high level objectives are set:

• Completion – projects which commenced in Control Period 5 and which are scheduled to complete early in Control Period 6
• Capacity – projects which will enhance the capacity of the network and help to meet future forecast demand projections
• Connectivity – projects which will improve connectivity including the consideration of new stations and enhanced integration with other modes including cycling and walking
• Competitiveness - projects which will further improve the competitiveness of rail as a mode of travel, with a focus on improved journey times and connections between key city hubs, promoting modal shift
• Committed obligations – projects which address franchisee obligations
• Innovation and low-carbon – projects which address the Government’s desire to move towards a low carbon economy by greater use of modern, greener technologies

 

[JohnR]

This seems to be about how the pipeline will work, rather than whats going into the pipeline.

 

[Altnabreac]

This seems to be about how the pipeline will work, rather than whats going into the pipeline.

Exactly that's the whole point. There is no set list of schemes for CP6. Nothing is "In" and nothing is "Out". Schemes promoted by campaign groups, local authorities, housing developers, regional transport partnerships, Transport Scotland, Network Rail or Scotrail have exactly the same process to go through to get included in the pipeline.

The organisation proposing a scheme takes it through GRIP 1 and GRIP 2. There is a funding stream available to help with this process for the smaller organisations.

A decision is then made by Transport Scotland whether to put the scheme into the pipeline. But nothing is guaranteed to be in the pipeline just because it has previously been proposed. The flip side is that it allows other new schemes to quickly come along and make their way into the pipeline without having to wait five years for a new SoFA to come along.

 

[JohnR]

Yes, I think the problem is that it seems to result in a pause while schemes for CP6 are worked up through the pipeline. At the very least we should have some schemes for the first 2 years or so of CP6.

If I was being cynical, it would be that it allows for Government to punt major spending down the road a few years.

 

[Altnabreac]

Yes, I think the problem is that it seems to result in a pause while schemes for CP6 are worked up through the pipeline. At the very least we should have some schemes for the first 2 years or so of CP6.

If I was being cynical, it would be that it allows for Government to punt major spending down the road a few years.

I suspect the "Completion" above of finishing off CP5 schemes will keep everyone busy for the next wee while without adding any new schemes immediately.

 

[InOban]

Which cp5 schemes will not be completed by March next year?
Surely the current egip/Shotts will be done or almost.
There will still be work between Aberdeen and Inverness, and some minimal improvements to the HML.
What else?

 

[Altnabreac]

Network Rail wanted to tackle Carstairs remodelling and Edinburgh South Sub electrification in CP5 but they were removed from HLOS by ORR so suspect they'll want to get on with those early in CP6.

I think Motherwell stabling and Perth Depot were also floating about as potential CP5 schemes and Montrose - Usan has some City Deal money that needs spending as well.

 

[clc]

Which cp5 schemes will not be completed by March next year?
Surely the current egip/Shotts will be done or almost.
There will still be work between Aberdeen and Inverness, and some minimal improvements to the HML.
What else?

Queen St station redevelopment won’t be finished by next March.

 

[InOban]

Of course. Should have remembered that.

If a project, like the Edinburgh south electrification, was removed from cp5, rather than not completed, does it have to start from scratch in the new approval process?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Apart from this bullet:
QUOTE[Innovation and low-carbon – projects which address the Government’s desire to move towards a low carbon economy by greater use of modern, greener technologies]END QUOTE

I do not see the Scottish Government being quite as horny for electrification per se as they were/are in CP5

 

[clc]

Network Rail wanted to tackle Carstairs remodelling and Edinburgh South Sub electrification in CP5 but they were removed from HLOS by ORR so suspect they'll want to get on with those early in CP6.

What are the journey time savings from Carstairs remodelling and wouldn’t it be a poor investment in view of future high speed bypasses being proposed by the Scottish Government?

 

[JohnR]

Network Rail wanted to tackle Carstairs remodelling and Edinburgh South Sub electrification in CP5 but they were removed from HLOS by ORR so suspect they'll want to get on with those early in CP6.

I think Motherwell stabling and Perth Depot were also floating about as potential CP5 schemes and Montrose - Usan has some City Deal money that needs spending as well.

Montrose-Usan is currently sitting at GRIP 0. Theres been some meetings about it between NR and TS, but nothing has actually been done on it. I was hoping to see it as a committed project for CP6.

 

[Altnabreac]

Montrose-Usan is currently sitting at GRIP 0. Theres been some meetings about it between NR and TS, but nothing has actually been done on it. I was hoping to see it as a committed project for CP6.

I believe Keith Brown is a big fan of it so I suspect it will make it into the pipeline unscathed.

 

[JohnR]

I believe Keith Brown is a big fan of it so I suspect it will make it into the pipeline unscathed.

Then there needs to be some movement. As I said, pretty much nothing has happened in the 2 years since the funding was announced. Hardly the actions of "a big fan".

 

[clc]

Montrose-Usan has a 10 year timescale so I’ve always assumed it would be delivered in CP7.

See TS letters: https://beta.gov.scot/publications/... questions and correspondence.pdf?inline=true

 

[JohnR]

Montrose-Usan has a 10 year timescale so I’ve always assumed it would be delivered in CP7.

See TS letters: https://beta.gov.scot/publications/foi-17-01662/FOI - 17 - 01662 - written questions and correspondence.pdf?inline=true

"Up to 10 years". CP6 ends 8 years in. The final letter indicates that initial requirements will be set up in the HLOS for CP6 (which it wasnt).

PS - who do you think submitted the FOI request?

 

[DuncanS]

Times leading on John Mason, the idiot MSP who thinks Skye isn't an island, bumping his gums over a new station at the Forge,

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/...tation_at_Parkhead_Forge_on_the_Airdrie_line/

A POLITICIAN is asking the Scottish Government whether consideration had been given to a new railway station on the Airdrie line at Parkhead Forge.

MSP John Mason said the area is not currently served by a station despite the nearby Forge Shopping Centre, Market and Retail Park and Celtic Park.

There is also plans to upgrade Parkhead Hospital.

He said: “Parkhead is one of the most bustling areas in Glasgow thanks to all the area has to offer, unfortunately the rail links to the area do not reflect this as well as they could.

 

[adrock1976]

Perhaps Mason is approaching this from the wrong angle here.

I believe that the eastern section of the former Glasgow Central Railway is still intact east of Bridgeton Cross. There was formerly a station at London Road in Parkhead.

Maybe this alignment could be used to bring back trams?

 

[backontrack]

You have to work out both sides of the equation and add up the winners and losers to decide which is the best timetable. Personally I think maybe a Linlithgow call remaining in the Stirling services would have been worth considering but it's clear the new timetable does have many benefits as well.

Perhaps some Linlithgow calls could be retained in the peaks?

 

[clc]

A local councillor proposing the reopening of Ibrox station:

“It’s very easy to do. It wouldn’t take long. The tracks are there, it’s just a matter of the train stopping. How easy is that?

“I’m hoping that this will happen within the next year.”

Ah, bless!

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/16174335.Plans_for_a_station_at_Ibrox/

 

[adrock1976]

Perhaps David Murray could stump up some money towards the reopening as reparation for the tax dodging scam that he operated while in charge of the original incarnation of Glasgow Rangers FC, which have not existed since 2012 when they went into liquidation.