Splits when ticket office unstaffed

[greatkingrat]

Quite sympathetic to this argument - surely there is no tech reason preventing it. But if that really is too much of an ask why can't TVMs simply include a permit to travel option (and perhaps only available "out of hours") , to at least offer the would-be passenger a legitimate means of embarking on their journey

I'm not sure putting 10p in a PTT machine would help much in this situation. It is already possible to buy a ticket to cover the first part of the intended journey from the TVM, so buying a permit to travel as well would be superfluous.

 

[RobLawrence]

I'm not sure putting 10p in a PTT machine would help much in this situation. It is already possible to buy a ticket to cover the first part of the intended journey from the TVM, so buying a permit to travel as well would be superfluous.

In sofar as it would indicate there was no intention to willfully travel beyond the validity of the first ticket but without a second one being available to purchase? (And particularly because there are never staff on board to approach to purchase it during the first half of the journey....). Thus making the case at the destination for an excess rather than a fine or notice of intended prosecution!

 

[philthetube]

The best thing to do is probably to ask the train company. Explain that you wish to buy a ticket from an unstaffed station and the ticket isn't available. Ask what you should do under those circumstances.

He/she may not want to inform the train company about the saving.

 

[Starmill]

There is no need to give the specific tickets and journey. Just state the origin station and that the tickets are not all available from the machine.

 

[thedbdiboy]

It is quite ludicrous that TVMs aren't able to sell the full range of walk up tickets anyway.

Without a doubt.

And make them even more complicated to navigate?

 

[jon0844]

If you buy online and collect at a TVM I think the advertised time is now 15 minutes, whereas before it was two hours. We know it usually took a matter of minutes, but if it didn't for any reason then you were pretty much buggered.

FWIW, GTR machines are going to be updated to sell tickets from any origin, as the old machines did, but I am not sure when the software update will actually happen. They STILL sell Travelcards under the '.' menu instead of 'Any permitted' which has been going on for 6+ months and confuses the hell out of people.

 

[Albion91]

And make them even more complicated to navigate?

Why would it be complicated? Just put a button which says 'Tickets from other stations' like many of them do.

 

[RJ]

Why would it be complicated? Just put a button which says 'Tickets from other stations' like many of them do.

In some cases, less is more.

Even at something like an ATM, you get people who stand there and spend time reading every single available option and really think before committing to select one. Some people will see all the options, be overwhelmed and give up. Not everybody can whizz through at the speed of light and ignore the options that don't apply.

Same thing with TVMs - the more you clutter the screens with text and options, the less accessible you make it to people.

 

[jon0844]

In some cases, less is more.

Even at something like an ATM, you get people who stand there and spend time reading every single available option and really think before committing to select one. Some people will see all the options, be overwhelmed and give up. Not everybody can whizz through at the speed of light and ignore the options that don't apply.

Same thing with TVMs - the more you clutter the screens with text and options, the less accessible you make it to people.

I won't bring it up again (okay, I just have) but I do think TVMs could have a simple menu to offer simple tickets through a wizard based system for irregular travellers, and a more advanced option for those who know what they want.

You can then satisfy two types of user without confusing/frustrating the other.

 

[alistairlees]

If you buy online and collect at a TVM I think the advertised time is now 15 minutes, whereas before it was two hours. We know it usually took a matter of minutes, but if it didn't for any reason then you were pretty much buggered.

What do you mean by "the advertised time"?

When you buy online tickets can be made available virtually instantly (seconds) for collection from TVMs. This is because online retailers place a Customer Transaction Record (CTR) within a central rail industry database (Live Sales Management, or LSM, if you want to know) which is then queried by the TVM (when you put your 8-character reference in) in order to retrieve the ticket details.

Online websites vary in the speed with which they send details of the ticket booking to LSM because they wish to minimise fraud, and may wish to carry out checks. Fraud is a real and present risk.

As a result, the speed with which you can collect tickets from TVMs varies - but it's not really for technical reasons. The "advertised time" will vary from outlet to outlet because of counter-fraud considerations.

It matters not a jot whether the TVM and the website belong to the same company.

 

[Haywain]

When you buy online tickets can be made available virtually instantly (seconds) for collection from TVMs. This is because online retailers place a Customer Transaction Record (CTR) within a central rail industry database (Live Sales Management, or LSM, if you want to know) which is then queried by the TVM (when you put your 8-character reference in) in order to retrieve the ticket details.

Online websites vary in the speed with which they send details of the ticket booking to LSM because they wish to minimise fraud, and may wish to carry out checks. Fraud is a real and present risk.

As a result, the speed with which you can collect tickets from TVMs varies - but it's not really for technical reasons. The "advertised time" will vary from outlet to outlet because of counter-fraud considerations.

I believe it is also the case that some retailers send the records to LSM in batches, rather than individually, which is part of the reason for advising longer collection times.

 

[Starmill]

And make them even more complicated to navigate?

So let me get this straight. Impenetrably complicated products should exist but just not be retailed at many locations. And that's somehow better for the customer?

 

[jon0844]

If your website/app says to allow 15 minutes then buying a ticket 5 minutes before your train next to the TVM and then not being able to collect it means you're unlikely to get much sympathy. If you go to the ticket office, they'll not be able to issue it either and you may need to buy a new ticket to travel.

It used to be two hours. I always got my ticket within minutes, except once. I had to buy a new ticket because the ToD code simply did not work and nobody could do anything about it.

 

[Mathew S]

So let me get this straight. Impenetrably complicated products should exist but just not be retailed at many locations. And that's somehow better for the customer?

It's not just the products though, it's the interface and the machines themselves. Twice since Christmas I've managed to buy the wrong ticket from a TVM. Once a single when I wanted a return, and once a TOC specific ticket when I needed a flexible one. Both occasions, it was a combination of not wanting to miss my train, and a less than clear TVM interface.

I'm better than average with technology - I regularly 'drive' radio studios, for example - so if the combination of an unintuitive interface and time pressure leads me into errors then I can see why some others really do struggle with them.

 

[Starmill]

It's not just the products though, it's the interface and the machines themselves. Twice since Christmas I've managed to buy the wrong ticket from a TVM. Once a single when I wanted a return, and once a TOC specific ticket when I needed a flexible one. Both occasions, it was a combination of not wanting to miss my train, and a less than clear TVM interface.

I'm better than average with technology - I regularly 'drive' radio studios, for example - so if the combination of an unintuitive interface and time pressure leads me into errors then I can see why some others really do struggle with them.

I agree, so better UI is called for. Rather than the current situation where it's a complete lottery if some tickets are available or not? If your ticket machine cannot offer at least almost all relevant products then clearly it cannot be relied upon as an opportunity to purchase.

 

[alistairlees]

I believe it is also the case that some retailers send the records to LSM in batches, rather than individually, which is part of the reason for advising longer collection times.

I agree, though there is no need for those batches to be up to 2 hours apart; they could be every minute or every five minutes, for example. And they in fact are, on at least some TIS that I can think of.

 

[PeterC]

I agree, though there is no need for those batches to be up to 2 hours apart; they could be every minute or every five minutes, for example. And they in fact are, on at least some TIS that I can think of.

The recommended time should always assume that a transaction will miss a batch by a fraction of a second and the next batch will fail and have to be resent. If 99% of people get their tickets "early" then that is good PR.

In my view a TVM should be a double unit, one that supports complex sales, ToD etc and a fast ticket screen for the most popular fares for immediate travel. Having said that whatever you do there are people who will be confused and others who seem to make a point of "misunderstanding".

 

[Mathew S]

I agree, so better UI is called for. Rather than the current situation where it's a complete lottery if some tickets are available or not? If your ticket machine cannot offer at least almost all relevant products then clearly it cannot be relied upon as an opportunity to purchase.

Yes, exactly.

 

[bakerstreet]

I was interested to see the later machines South West Trains installed towards the end of their franchise (as yet not improved) which have a comprehensive list of ticket types they do sell and those they don’t and the don’t list is longer than the dos. The station I was at today has no ticket office on a Sunday, and only half day the rest of the week.

 

[AlterEgo]

Why would it be complicated? Just put a button which says 'Tickets from other stations' like many of them do.

That still wouldn’t give you the full range of splitting options.