GWR Taking me to court!!

[yasmin]

I need advice
GWR train company.

On the 31st of October it was my day off and had a call from my area manager saying that no one had opened the store and could i get there as soon as i could. As i was the only other member of staff with keys and the store had to be opened! So i got ready and jumped on the first bus i could get that was running slightly late. I checked on the app what train i should get as i had never got the train to work before. As the buses were pulling into bodmin parkway they got stuck opposite each other i was very conscious of the fact that i had 1 min to get on the train or have to wait over 1 hour to the next one which i couldn't do i ran across the bridge and on to the train with money in my hand waiting for the conducer to get to me. When she did she took me to the side and began treating me like a criminal. I had no reason to want to dodge the fair. If i had wanted to i could of hid in the toilets but i didn’t as i had nothing to hide. The conductor said it would be easy for me to appeal so i just wrote a short summary and didn’t think anything of it! November was my birthday so id been to see my family and had gone on holiday! I didn’t go back to my house share till December as i was staying at my boyfriends. When i got my mail i had two very threatening letters demanding different sums of money. They are now saying i need to pay 134.50 or go to court. 4.50 the fair and 130 contribution?!?! Ive always lived in Birmingham and have always been able to buy a ticket on the train and have done it many times in Cornwall! I didn’t think i was doing anything wrong! I was just trying to get to work! The amount of times the trains been late and ive had to fork out for a taxi! I have had no human contact during this experience. The language and the text used on the letters made me feel bullied and anxious threating my job and personal life! ive also found articles saying that inspectors have quotas to fill?

Do i go to court??

 

[mikeg]

Leaving aside the waffle about why you got on the train without a valid ticket, which they won't be the slightest bit interested in, I have a few questions and a couple of points to make:

Were you offered a penalty fare? Bodmin Parkway is a penalty fare station and unless all of the ticket machines are kaput or otherwise inaccessible boarding without a valid ticket is not permitted and you may be charged a penalty fare if caught by an authorised collector. Even if you weren't, they don't have to offer one, but your mention of appeal says to me you might have been. If you were it would have been better to pay up and then appeal. Anyway it is of scant relevance now.
Whereabouts in Birmingham did you live? Similar policies apply there.
Even in a non penalty fare area boarding without first having a ticket is not permitted where facilities to purchase one exist at the station or unless there's a sign saying it's okay to pay on the train.

A few points to make: GWR usually leave prosecution as a last resort, they prefer to settle out of court, so my suggestion is to man up and apologise and pay the money. It's the only way it's going to go away.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse in any case. Nor is 'I got away with it before' or 'others got away with it before'. Try to view it from the train companies' standpoint: IF everyone paid on board, the guard would not have time to sell everyone a ticket. Then there would be massive queues to exit the station and many would simply get a free ride.

Again this about bullying. I don't think it is, they have to point out the real consequences and if they didn't and it went to court, you received a fine and criminal record I'm sure there'd be ground for complaint from you about that. There has in my opinion been some shady goings on by prosecutions departments, but this is not one of them.

 

[cuccir]

Mikeg covers a lot of what needs saying above. Although people are not always aware of this, it is a criminal offence to travel without a ticket if you board at a station where it was possible to buy one beforehand, and people do get prosecuted for this on a daily basis. You may have had a good reason: but lots of people who get prosecuted for this have what they see to be good reasons.

I've got sympathy with people who get caught out when they've lived in areas where it's common to buy on board because stations don't have the facilities, or where train companies chose to allow it anyway: I can understand why this leads to confusion. This sympathy doesn't change the facts, however.

I'd advise you to pay the £134.50 - it is likely that any prosecution would succeed, and would result in you paying a fine that is higher than this figure.

 

[telstarbox]

You should also tell your area manager to get a better backup plan in place.

 

[Merseysider]

Pay the amount requested and it all goes away, is the essence of it.

Then, you can seek redress from your employer if you wish.

 

[yasmin]

i didnt return to my house share during the time i had the penatly fair issued as i was in Birmingham with my family and then went out the country because it was my birthday! i was gone fotlr iver a month and didnt recive my post when i got back i had these letters and by that point i couldnt pay! i provided them with a bus ticket and the bus drivers name so they could check my ticket and my story on the apel as thats all the inspector said i would have to do! the only time ive been on the train i have paid on the app while i was in cornwall and i havent lived in birmingham for four years and by walsall! this was the first letter with a phone number for me to tell them i hadnt been home. phoned up and asked if i can pay in instalments and was refused and i simply cant pull money out my ass! the reson i didnt pay on the app is i didnt have my bank card if i did i would of instantly paid the fine and had done with is but as i only had cash on me it wasn't possible and my work could of covered it! all i need to know is if i didnt have the money and it gose to court can i pay in instalments. and i have the messges and proof on my phone that my area manager had told me to get in! and he was more than willing to tell gwr but as ive said this was the first number i have recived

 

[RPI]

Bodmin Parkway is, as has been pointed out, a penalty fare station, if you were travelling towards Plymouth you would have passed 3 penalty fare signs, if you were travelling west you would have walked past at least one, in both cases you would have walked past the ticket office and TVM, the TVM at this station accepts cash and card.
You mention an appeal so I'm assuming that you were issued a Penalty Fare, you would have been given a notice on which was information about how to pay or appeal.
If the costs have gone up to £130 then its obviously gone well over 28 days since the first letter so whatever you intend to do I'd do it quick as otherwise it'll just go to court in your absence

 

[cuccir]

i didnt return to my house share during the time i had the penatly fair issued as i was in Birmingham with my family and then went out the country because it was my birthday! i was gone fotlr iver a month and didnt recive my post when i got back i had these letters and by that point i couldnt pay! i provided them with a bus ticket and the bus drivers name so they could check my ticket and my story on the apel as thats all the inspector said i would have to do! the only time ive been on the train i have paid on the app while i was in cornwall and i havent lived in birmingham for four years and by walsall! this was the first letter with a phone number for me to tell them i hadnt been home. phoned up and asked if i can pay in instalments and was refused and i simply cant pull money out my ass! the reson i didnt pay on the app is i didnt have my bank card if i did i would of instantly paid the fine and had done with is but as i only had cash on me it wasn't possible and my work could of covered it! all i need to know is if i didnt have the money and it gose to court can i pay in instalments. and i have the messges and proof on my phone that my area manager had told me to get in! and he was more than willing to tell gwr but as ive said this was the first number i have recived

The content of this post doesn't really change things. It's unfortunate you missed the chance to pay the lower penalty fare, but that's now gone. Believe us when we say that the train company will hear many excuses as to why people can't pay: yours is not that exceptional.

The only way we can be sure this won't go to court is if you find the money and pay them; if this goes to court you will probably lose, probably pay more, and may get s criminal record.

If money is very tight, you could write to the train company and explain this (perhaps include a payslip) with a cheque for an amount that's close to the £132.50 but affordable to you. Apologize, don't try and justify what happened, and explain that you hope this covers their costs. Dont go much under £100. This is a risky option however and I'd only suggest this if (1) you are able to write a letter much more coherent and readable than your posts on this forum and (2) money really is that tight.

My advice would remain that paying the amount asked for is the best and only way to guarantee this doesn't go to court.

 

[richw]

for Your reference see this article for local court fine amounts and how much more they’ll be.
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/local-news/stark-warning-those-who-dodge-961330
Please consider this and pay the £134.50. It’s an open and shut case unfortunately from what you’ve told us.

 

[malc-c]

I'm no expert in these matters, but I'm sure that if you were found without a ticket when there was every opportunity to purchased one from the station, be that from a vending machine or manned kiosk then it matters no what story you tell to explain how you came to be on the train without having purchased a ticket. These companies just look at the facts as they see it, and as others have pointed out, there appears to be up to four vending machines available at the station.

I have always advised people to pay whatever penalty charge, be that for a parking violation or travelling on public transport without a valid ticket, and then appeal the case afterwards. This thus prevents the costs spiralling, and matters escalating to to point where you then find yourself with a criminal record after a court fine. I would suggest you pay the £134, put the matter behind you and get on with life

 

[Fare-Cop]

i didnt return to my house share during the time i had the penatly fair issued as i was in Birmingham with my family and then went out the country because it was my birthday! i was gone fotlr iver a month and didnt recive my post when i got back i had these letters and by that point i couldnt pay!

Something else doesn't add up here too.

If indeed this was a case where a Penalty Fare Notice was issued then the matter of receiving, or not receiving post is something of a 'red herring'. If the OP was issued a Penalty Fare Notice then she would not have had to wait for any post, the notice would have been physically handed to her at the time and printed on it she would have seen the conditions informing the need to pay the penalty, or to send a written appeal within 21 days.

If the matter proceeds to Court action I'm sure any prosecutor will raise that point before addressing the matter of boarding without paying and the Appeal Court judgment in Corbyn, which appears to have been the basis of cases reported in the Devon & Cornwall press in December last year.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Borrow the money (?parents), pay the outstanding PF and take the matter up with your manager/employer.

If they had better contigency plans in place, you might not have been in this predicament...

 

[MG11]

I need advice
GWR train company.

On the 31st of October it was my day off and had a call from my area manager saying that no one had opened the store and could i get there as soon as i could. As i was the only other member of staff with keys and the store had to be opened! So i got ready and jumped on the first bus i could get that was running slightly late. I checked on the app what train i should get as i had never got the train to work before. As the buses were pulling into bodmin parkway they got stuck opposite each other i was very conscious of the fact that i had 1 min to get on the train or have to wait over 1 hour to the next one which i couldn't do i ran across the bridge and on to the train with money in my hand waiting for the conducer to get to me. When she did she took me to the side and began treating me like a criminal. I had no reason to want to dodge the fair. If i had wanted to i could of hid in the toilets but i didn’t as i had nothing to hide. The conductor said it would be easy for me to appeal so i just wrote a short summary and didn’t think anything of it! November was my birthday so id been to see my family and had gone on holiday! I didn’t go back to my house share till December as i was staying at my boyfriends. When i got my mail i had two very threatening letters demanding different sums of money. They are now saying i need to pay 134.50 or go to court. 4.50 the fair and 130 contribution?!?! Ive always lived in Birmingham and have always been able to buy a ticket on the train and have done it many times in Cornwall! I didn’t think i was doing anything wrong! I was just trying to get to work! The amount of times the trains been late and ive had to fork out for a taxi! I have had no human contact during this experience. The language and the text used on the letters made me feel bullied and anxious threating my job and personal life! ive also found articles saying that inspectors have quotas to fill?

Do i go to court??

I have one question, what happened between December and now? Three months is a long time without correspondence.

 

[221129]

Borrow the money (?parents), pay the outstanding PF and take the matter up with your manager/employer.

If they had better contigency plans in place, you might not have been in this predicament...

There is no penalty fare?

 

[island]

I don't think anything you've posted excuses the fact that you committed a criminal offence when you chose to join a train without a ticket at Bodmin Parkway, a station with ticket-selling facilities. You now need to pay the requested sum promptly to avoid further escalation and a possible criminal record.

 

[farleigh]

I don't think anything you've posted excuses the fact that you committed a criminal offence when you chose to join a train without a ticket at Bodmin Parkway, a station with ticket-selling facilities. You now need to pay the requested sum promptly to avoid further escalation and a possible criminal record.

Second sentence was good. First unnecessary

 

[MikeWh]

Second sentence was good. First unnecessary

No it isn't. The first sets the scene in a factual way to justify the second.

 

[farleigh]

No it isn't. The first sets the scene in a factual way to justify the second.

Factual - agreed. I thought this thread was to offer advice that is useful to the OP. This factual information was stated in post 3. In this case you are wrong IMO.

 

[farleigh]

...but I would wager that you will not admit you are wrong.

 

[MikeWh]

Factual - agreed. I thought this thread was to offer advice that is useful to the OP. This factual information was stated in post 3. In this case you are wrong IMO.

...but I would wager that you will not admit you are wrong.

Your opinion is that I am wrong. I do not share that opinion, therefore it would be silly of me to admit otherwise. One of the problems of visting the forum every day is that you only see updates to threads by default. I had forgotten the exact nature of the early replies. It is therefore good to re-state really important information where necessary. Perhaps @island could have quoted post 3 rather than stating it again, but you'd probably think that even that was unnecessary.

It is a sad fact that many people coming to this part of the forum struggle to grasp the seriousness of what they have done. I am therefore quite happy for factual statements to be made whenever is deemed sensible.

 

[AlterEgo]

Factual - agreed. I thought this thread was to offer advice that is useful to the OP. This factual information was stated in post 3. In this case you are wrong IMO.

A lot of people aren’t really aware of the fact that travelling without a ticket really *is* a crime in some circumstances and a lot of the opening posters in this area of the forum are hopelessly optimistic and naive (this is not a criticism but an observation).

@island’s post was factual in its entirety and offered reasonable advice.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

There might be an argument for the OP to pay the outstanding monies due and claim back from his employer

On the other hand, his employer might dismiss the claim on the grounds that they are not responsible for the OP jumping on the train without a ticket.

Not sure if I've missed this but if the OP makes this journey every day, doesn't she hold a season ticket?

 

[Clip]

There might be an argument for the OP to pay the outstanding monies due and claim back from his employer

In what world would this possibly be a rational proposal?

 

[aye2beeviasea]

Not sure if I've missed this but if the OP makes this journey every day, doesn't she hold a season ticket?

OP has never made the journey by train before, and probably never will again now.

In what world would this possibly be a rational proposal?

It's a long shot, that's true, but how about a world where missing the train and losing another hour's worth of business costs more than £130?

 

[221129]

OP has never made the journey by train before, and probably never will again now.

Where in the OP does it state that?

 

[Mister Ed]

Where in the OP does it state that?

It looks like the OP usually used the bus but from her initial account she was in a hurry due to being called in on her day off and required to open the shop, and the train would be quicker.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

In what world would this possibly be a rational proposal?

You fail to acknowledge the second sentence in which I allude this is unlikely and I quote again:

"On the other hand, his employer might dismiss the claim on the grounds that they are not responsible for the OP jumping on the train without a ticket"

 

[221129]

It looks like the OP usually used the bus but from her initial account she was in a hurry due to being called in on her day off and required to open the shop, and the train would be quicker.

They said they use the trains in Cornwall quite a lot...

 

[robbeech]

Despite what appears to be accepted as normal with a few people here there are actually people who have a good relationship with their employers and care about their job and the customers enough to want to help where they can.

If you feel that being asked in a difficult situation by your boss requires a formal complaint to higher powers or you feel it necessary to hang up the phone on them then that is more than fine. Other people wouldn’t dream of that, not because they’re worried they’ll lose their job but because they actual care about their job.

If this had happened to someone who was working for me I would not be waiting for them to ask, I would be offering to pay any fees in full. I wouldn’t be checking timings to make sure they weren’t pulling a fast one as I have trust in them.

 

[Clip]

You fail to acknowledge the second sentence in which I allude this is unlikely and I quote again:

"On the other hand, his employer might dismiss the claim on the grounds that they are not responsible for the OP jumping on the train without a ticket"

Oh I did read it but I simply can't think of any way that an employer would ewver be responsible for you not purchasing your ticket to work so I didn't quote your whole fantasy