My idea: Replace Worcester Foregate with cable car to Shrub Hill

[squizzler]

I am a frequent traveller through Worcester and the station situation there strikes me as quite messy because the small cramped Foregate Street station is in the city centre where users of the city want to be. And there is the spacious Shrub Hill station half a mile away where, I imagine, the rail operators would rather be.

This proposal is for Foregate street to close and some form of people mover system installed between the city centre and Shrub Hill. This might take the form of a people mover alongside the rail alignment to the Foregate Street site or (and this is my suggestion) an aerial ropeway to a different central location. All rail traffic will then use Shrub Hill station allowing for an integrated city centre interchange. Here are some current operational disadvantages I think my proposal would solve:

• The expense of running two stations
• Cotswold - Malvern services having to stop twice in central Worcester
• Most passengers go to Foregate Street for convenience so services from there would get crowded. So the Snow Hill route services to/from Shrub hill now have to call there to balance the loadings. This means your frequent Worcester-Birmingham service is now reversing in that two platform station.
• The above means that the mouth of the Worcester-Hereford line is now getting gummed up with services to/from Shrub Hill and this must eventually reduce the potential to increase services through the Malverns.

Regarding the aeriel ropeway, I suggest the terminus can be somewhere around Queen Street / The Trinity which is closer to the city centre than Foregate Street. This is because the intervening land to Shrub hill is almost exclusively big box retail, so the cablecar would not go over housing. Far from invading the privacy of those below, this facility would provide visitors to the city with a fine view of the ancient cityscape and distant malvern hills.

I personally would be inconvenienced by my own proposal because I often go from Hereford to Droitwich and my proposal would result in a slower journey due to change of direction at Shrub Hill. However I hope this would be outweighed by the advantages of a single spacious hub in Worcester. The Hereford services, for instance, could use this reversal to split or rejoin at Shrub Hill, providing additional capacity for their more popular New Street (rather than Snow Hill) route

Removing the bottleneck at Foregate Street might have the further benefit of allow a new station for local services to open on the West side of the river. This in turn would help redress the cities notorious cross town traffic.

What do others think? I would be surprised if no such thing had previously been proposed, but could not find it before writing this post.

EDIT: Attached map of my cablecar route

 

[Dr Hoo]

Well, the Emirates Airline in London broadly interchanges with rail/tube/DLR stations at both ends. There is also a cable car from Matlock Bath to the Heights of Abraham. Neither of these involved closing an existing station, of course.

 

[nuts & bolts]

I am a frequent traveller through Worcester and the station situation there strikes me as quite messy because the small cramped Foregate Street station is in the city centre where users of the city want to be. And there is the spacious Shrub Hill station half a mile away where, I imagine, the rail operators would rather be.

This proposal is for Foregate street to close and some form of people mover system installed between the city centre and Shrub Hill. This might take the form of a people mover alongside the rail alignment to the Foregate Street site or (and this is my suggestion) an aerial ropeway to a different central location. All rail traffic will then use Shrub Hill station allowing for an integrated city centre interchange.

Regarding the aeriel ropeway, I suggest the terminus can be somewhere around Queen Street / The Trinity which is closer to the city centre than Foregate Street. This is because the intervening land to Shrub hill is almost exclusively big box retail, so the cablecar would not go over housing. Far from invading the privacy of those below, this facility would provide visitors to the city with a fine view of the ancient cityscape and distant malvern hills.

I personally would be inconvenienced by my own proposal because I often go from Hereford to Droitwich and my proposal would result in a slower journey due to change of direction at Shrub Hill. However I hope this would be outweighed by the advantages of a single spacious hub in Worcester.

Removing the need for trains to stop at Foregate Street might allow a new station to open on the West side of the river. This in turn would help redress the notorious cross town traffic.

What do others think? I would be surprised if no such thing had previously been proposed, but could not find it before writing this post.

How about a Funicular?

 

[Mag_seven]

How about we just keep the railway as it is - I seem to manage OK whenever I visit Worcester as do no doubt many others.

 

[Unixman]

How about just try walking? Unless you are disabled then that is the easiest suggestion.....

You could always stop off at the West Midland Tavern for sustenance ...

 

[BrunswickGreen]

I am a frequent traveller through Worcester and the station situation there strikes me as quite messy because the small cramped Foregate Street station is in the city centre where users of the city want to be. And there is the spacious Shrub Hill station half a mile away where, I imagine, the rail operators would rather be.

This proposal is for Foregate street to close and some form of people mover system installed between the city centre and Shrub Hill. This might take the form of a people mover alongside the rail alignment to the Foregate Street site or (and this is my suggestion) an aerial ropeway to a different central location. All rail traffic will then use Shrub Hill station allowing for an integrated city centre interchange.

Regarding the aeriel ropeway, I suggest the terminus can be somewhere around Queen Street / The Trinity which is closer to the city centre than Foregate Street. This is because the intervening land to Shrub hill is almost exclusively big box retail, so the cablecar would not go over housing. Far from invading the privacy of those below, this facility would provide visitors to the city with a fine view of the ancient cityscape and distant malvern hills.

I personally would be inconvenienced by my own proposal because I often go from Hereford to Droitwich and my proposal would result in a slower journey due to change of direction at Shrub Hill. However I hope this would be outweighed by the advantages of a single spacious hub in Worcester.

Removing the need for trains to stop at Foregate Street might allow a new station to open on the West side of the river. This in turn would help redress the notorious cross town traffic.

What do others think? I would be surprised if no such thing had previously been proposed, but could not find it before writing this post.

April 1st comes early!

 

[Llanigraham]

Other than I like some of whatever the OP is using, I wonder if he has realised that his crazy proposal would require Birmingham - Malvern trains to reverse in Shrub Hill.

And Unixman, The Paul Pry is better! When I last used The West Mids it looked as if was about to fall down!

 

[takno]

I am a frequent traveller through Worcester and the station situation there strikes me as quite messy because the small cramped Foregate Street station is in the city centre where users of the city want to be. And there is the spacious Shrub Hill station half a mile away where, I imagine, the rail operators would rather be.

In 20 odd years of living there I can't recall a single time I *wanted* to be in the centre of Worcester. And that was 20 years ago when there were actually still some shops.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

As the stations are nice and close together, why not a simple catapult and catchnet system?

 

[satisnek]

A 'metro' style station in the city centre and a 'railhead' style station half a mile away up the hill... With the triangular layout at Worcester I can't see an easy way of rationalising this, which is probably why it never has been rationalised.

How about just try walking? Unless you are disabled then that is the easiest suggestion.....

You could always stop off at the West Midland Tavern for sustenance ...

Yes I've tried walking. With a 10 minute connection I've discovered that the fastest time I can walk it (platform to platform) is 10½ minutes. Twice.

I would recommend the Imperial Tavern (Black Country Ales) as the definitive stop-off point

In 20 odd years of living there I can't recall a single time I *wanted* to be in the centre of Worcester. And that was 20 years ago when there were actually still some shops.

There still are! Unlike certain towns in the northern part of the county...

 

[The Ham]

A 'metro' style station in the city centre and a 'railhead' style station half a mile away up the hill... With the triangular layout at Worcester I can't see an easy way of rationalising this, which is probably why it never has been rationalised.

Would the OP's suggestion, but omitting the station closure, of a cable car connection be helpful?

Yes I've tried walking. With a 10 minute connection I've discovered that the fastest time I can walk it (platform to platform) is 10½ minutes. Twice.

I would recommend the Imperial Tavern (Black Country Ales) as the definitive stop-off point

A quick question, does your fastest connection time include a stop off at the pub?

 

[squizzler]

I think some of the ribbing of this proposal might be because I have floated it without elaborating on the problem its meant to solve. I might add some of the following to the OP and change the title too Worcester has problems with its rail geography both in terms of the wider network (the main cross country line between Birmingham and Bristol misses the city) and compounds this within the city with reverse branching of traffic from the north and splitting traffic between the two stations. There are several operational disadvantages I think my proposal would solve:

• The expense of running two stations
• Cotswold - Malvern services having to stop twice in central Worcester
• Most passengers go to Foregate Street for convenience so services from there would get crowded. So the Snow Hill route services to/from Shrub hill now have to call there to balance the loadings. This means your frequent Worcester-Birmingham service is now reversing in that two platform station.
• The above means that the mouth of the Worcester-Hereford line is now getting gummed up with services to/from Shrub Hill and this must eventually reduce the potential to increase services through the Malverns, or perhaps to introduce a west Worcester station.

I feel an automated link between station and town accords with current thinking as adopted by, at one end, HS2 Birmingham Interchange with people mover to connect with the established development, or if you want a more humble example, the inclined lift at Ebbw Vale town. A cable car strikes me as well suited to this specific application where the station s built above the town and the land use between the station and city centre is commercial development not sensitive to visual intrusion. Yes it's walkable but its not a very pleasant environment to do so. Modern aerial ropeway technology is very responsive to demand as the gondolas can be added or removed from the system during the day.

Other than I like some of whatever the OP is using, I wonder if he has realised that his crazy proposal would require Birmingham - Malvern trains to reverse in Shrub Hill.

Yes, but the terminating Worcester trains won't *have* to reverse at Foregate street. There is more platform space for reversing at Shrub Hill. The lesser of the two evils, surely?

Would the OP's suggestion, but omitting the station closure, of a cable car connection be helpful?

I think the problem is that people in the centre of Worcester would probably continue to default to Foregate Street for as long as its possible to catch direct Birmingham trains, so the few remaining trains will get more busy. I reckon it's better just to get rid of it so people know to just go to Shrub Hill. The quid pro quo might be to provide a new station on the West of the river for local services only.

 

[jimm]

You seem to be forgetting the large car park with railway station attached that the county council is currently building in the fields south-east of Worcester, which is likely to have a far greater impact on the current level of use at Shrub Hill station than Foregate Street - especially if XC gets trains that are actually able to cope with current demand between Birmingham, Bristol and Cardiff and allow for growth from Worcester Pakrway and extra calls at Ashchurch.

For all its limitations due to being perched on a viaduct, Foregate Street has an excellent city centre location right where people want to go. Closing it would be commercial suicide.

Any investment in central Worcester should be on replacing the track layout around the triangle and across the river to get rid of the current limitations of the set-up created in 1971 when far fewer trains were running - and replacing the antique signalling.

 

[Unixman]

Other than I like some of whatever the OP is using, I wonder if he has realised that his crazy proposal would require Birmingham - Malvern trains to reverse in Shrub Hill.

And Unixman, The Paul Pry is better! When I last used The West Mids it looked as if was about to fall down!

Bit of a detour that ... The West Mid Tavern is on the route Must admit my personal preference is the Plough which ran, until recently, the Paul Pry ...

 

[306024]

As the stations are nice and close together, why not a simple catapult and catchnet system?

Sounds simple, but have you factored wind speed and direction? Your catapult would need variable tension, and the catchnet would need to be on, err......rails.

Meanwhile back in London, where there is a slightly greater population, the finances of the Emirates Airline are not a resounding success.

 

[Cowley]

Sounds simple, but have you factored wind speed and direction? Your catapult would need variable tension, and the catchnet would need to be on, err......rails.

And you’d shoot right over the top of the pub...

 

[jhy44]

I'd argue this is a pretty awful suggestion.

As other readers have already pointed out, Foregate Street is the 'Central' station, the place people want to be. If anyone of them were needed to be closed for some reason, Shrub Hill would be the one most would opt for. People don't like 'Changing trains'. And Hereford/Malvern bound trains have to pass through Foregate St anyway, it isn't a diversion, it's a direct through route. It would be like arguing to close down Birmingham New Street and replacing it with a station out on Proof House Junction.

A much simpler solution would be to:
• re-configure the track through, and junction to the East of, Foregate St, so that both lines are bi-directional
• build a new station West of the River somewhere in the St Johns / Rushwick area (Worcester West) where there is much more space and land, which has four platforms (two east-facing bay terminus ones for the Snow Hill trains and anything GWR don't want to run through to Malvern), with ample park and ride spaces. Means nothing has to terminate and block Foregate Street, and would be of great benefit to everyone West of Worcester and probably reduce traffic a fair bit.

Foregate Street only has a maximum of 6tph in each direction, two platforms is adequate to cope as long as nothing terminates there.

 

[squizzler]

For all its limitations due to being perched on a viaduct, Foregate Street has an excellent city centre location right where people want to go. Closing it would be commercial suicide.

As other readers have already pointed out, Foregate Street is the 'Central' station, the place people want to be. If anyone of them were needed to be closed for some reason, Shrub Hill would be the one most would opt for. People don't like 'Changing trains'. And Hereford/Malvern bound trains have to pass through Foregate St anyway, it isn't a diversion, it's a direct through route. It would be like arguing to close down Birmingham New Street and replacing it with a station out on Proof House Junction.

I agree that Foregate is the most convenient of the two for the city centre, however it is not precisely in the centre of town and our proposed gondola would be nearer. Guiding people to take a longer route than they would choose left to their own devices isn't always commercial suicide, just consider a visit to Ikea! I think many problems with Foregate are insoluble within the constraints of its site:

• Only two platforms, limiting scope to increase capacity with more trains.
• Too short, limiting capacity to increase capacity with greater train lengths.
• Limited modal interchange opportunity due to lack of a forecourt at Foregate

Perhaps imagine for a moment that Foregate street didn't already exist. Would we now be demanding that a couple of platforms be nailed onto the side of a viaduct high above the city streets only half a mile round a bend from the existing mainline station and introducing a massive operational bottleneck in the process? To get an idea of the responses anybody who suggested such a thing on this forum would face, see this thread passim

A much simpler solution would be to:
• re-configure the track through, and junction to the East of, Foregate St, so that both lines are bi-directional
• build a new station West of the River somewhere in the St Johns / Rushwick area (Worcester West) where there is much more space and land, which has four platforms (two east-facing bay terminus ones for the Snow Hill trains and anything GWR don't want to run through to Malvern), with ample park and ride spaces. Means nothing has to terminate and block Foregate Street, and would be of great benefit to everyone West of Worcester and probably reduce traffic a fair bit.

Hey, neat idea! I concur it would help address the turnaround issue at Foregate, however the platform lengths and other site constraints would still be a hinderance. You know both lines are already bi-directional (contrary to your first bullet point) - do you mean rather that Foregate should revert to left hand running? I don't agree it would be a simpler solution as it would require a new station rather than a large spacious site that already exists.

Meanwhile back in London, where there is a slightly greater population, the finances of the Emirates Airline are not a resounding success.

I don't know it from experience but we are looking at a much bigger project all round. Our proposed one would be 600-700m rather than the 1100m of AirLine. The spans would be shorter, it would not go over water, and the topography should allow shorter pylons. The AirLine takes 5-10 minutes (less at peak times). Our shorter proposed gondola would take correspondingly less time on journey. I envision Worcester's gondola as a free service, cost neutral on account of savings from closure of Foregate.

 

[tbtc]

Would it not be a lot simpler to find a 230 to run a fairly frequent shuttle to Foregate Street (since not every service will pass through the heart of Worcester)?

Maybe, if you want to be ambitions, stretch the budget to a couple of 230s, with Park And Ride stations near both locations where the A440 crosses the railway, thus providing a fairly frequent service into the heart of Worcester, making it simpler for passengers (who'd know which station to head to in the first instance for the majority of direct trains) and requiring fewer crayons?

 

[jhy44]

You know both lines are already bi-directional (contrary to your first bullet point) - do you mean rather that Foregate should revert to left hand running? I don't agree it would be a simpler solution as it would require a new station rather than a large spacious site that already exists.

Apologies, I made this comment pre-coffee, what I meant to say was bi-directional as in both lines can serve both the Droitwich-direction and the Ashchurch-direction, and actually become non-bi-directional , rather than the current bizarre situation we have where one platform is on a single-track branch from the Ashchurch line and the one a single-track branch from the Droitwich line.
it should be resignalled to become a normal double-tracked line to allow all Westbound trains to depart from Platform 1, and all Eastbound trains to depart from Platform 2, as is the case at normal stations.

I don't agree it would be a simpler solution as it would require a new station...

A new station built on an existing line would be cheaper than building an 'aerial ropeway'. It would also mean passengers can still travel to Worcester City Centre directly from London & Birmingham without having to change. If you're in a Wheelchair, have a bike, have pushchairs or tonnes of Luggage, having to change from a train to Cable-Car in order to reach your final destination would likely push you to finding alternative travel methods, likely a car.

...rather than a large spacious site that already exists.

Yes, a large spacious site does already exist, but it's on the wrong side of town, the majority of traffic coming into Worcester does so form the East (Birmingham, London, Gloucester), so traffic cannot serve both aforementioned large space and the city centre without reversing. Building a Shrub-Hill sized station to the West of Foregate Street, where there is ample land already available next to the railway tracks to do so, would resolve this problem.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

In 20 odd years of living there I can't recall a single time I *wanted* to be in the centre of Worcester. And that was 20 years ago when there were actually still some shops.

You're kidding, right? Worcester city centre is thriving these days. If you want to see a place where the shops have left, go to Gloucester.

On the pub front, I've found the Firefly to be a pleasant waiting room for that "45 minutes to kill at Shrub Hill" situation (particularly if you have a bike with you), though not as good as when it used to be the Apple Tree. But the Cardinal's Hat is still my favourite Worcester pub.

 

[ac6000cw]

You seem to be forgetting the large car park with railway station attached that the county council is currently building in the fields south-east of Worcester, which is likely to have a far greater impact on the current level of use at Shrub Hill station than Foregate Street - especially if XC gets trains that are actually able to cope with current demand between Birmingham, Bristol and Cardiff and allow for growth from Worcester Pakrway and extra calls at Ashchurch.

For all its limitations due to being perched on a viaduct, Foregate Street has an excellent city centre location right where people want to go. Closing it would be commercial suicide.

Any investment in central Worcester should be on replacing the track layout around the triangle and across the river to get rid of the current limitations of the set-up created in 1971 when far fewer trains were running - and replacing the antique signalling.

I agree entirely - it's Shrub Hill that should be closed once the parkway station is open.

Worcester is still 'paying' for the Birmingham and Gloucester Railway's lack of money to buy land in already prosperous towns and cities, so it built a route through - cheap to buy - open country instead. It would have liked (but couldn't afford) to serve industrial places like Stourbridge as well, but left that to the Oxford, Worcester and Wolverhampton Railway, 10 years later (which finally put Worcester properly on a - secondary - mainline). Maybe the nickname the O,W&W later acquired is appropriate to some aspects of the railway situation in Worcester - the 'Old Worse and Worse'

 

[Kettledrum]

I'd argue this is a pretty awful suggestion.


A much simpler solution would be to:
• re-configure the track through, and junction to the East of, Foregate St, so that both lines are bi-directional
• build a new station West of the River somewhere in the St Johns / Rushwick area (Worcester West) where there is much more space and land, which has four platforms (two east-facing bay terminus ones for the Snow Hill trains and anything GWR don't want to run through to Malvern), with ample park and ride spaces. Means nothing has to terminate and block Foregate Street, and would be of great benefit to everyone West of Worcester and probably reduce traffic a fair bit.
.

Goodness me, I'm just wondering how many stations Worcester needs: Worcester Foregate Street, Worcester Shrub Hill, Worcester Parkway and now a suggestion for Worcester West. I think 4 would be too many.

 

[Llanigraham]

Goodness me, I'm just wondering how many stations Worcester needs: Worcester Foregate Street, Worcester Shrub Hill, Worcester Parkway and now a suggestion for Worcester West. I think 4 would be too many.

There has been a movement to reopen the old Henwick Rd station for years in Worcester. I left there 15 years ago it was being mentioned then.

 

[squizzler]

Apologies, I made this comment pre-coffee, what I meant to say was bi-directional as in both lines can serve both the Droitwich-direction and the Ashchurch-direction, and actually become non-bi-directional , rather than the current bizarre situation we have where one platform is on a single-track branch from the Ashchurch line and the one a single-track branch from the Droitwich line.
it should be resignalled to become a normal double-tracked line to allow all Westbound trains to depart from Platform 1, and all Eastbound trains to depart from Platform 2, as is the case at normal stations.

That's certainly one thing we can both agree on, however Foregate nullifies most benefits unless your proposed West station (or some sort of turn back facility that does not necessitate almost empty stock making an excursion to Malvern) were built.

A new station built on an existing line would be cheaper than building an 'aerial ropeway'. It would also mean passengers can still travel to Worcester City Centre directly from London & Birmingham without having to change. If you're in a Wheelchair, have a bike, have pushchairs or tonnes of Luggage, having to change from a train to Cable-Car in order to reach your final destination would likely push you to finding alternative travel methods, likely a car.

I wouldn't be so sure. The station will require considerable land acquisition costs, lots of materials, road junctions, and remember you are building it next to a live railway. I have no idea how costs compare, but have a hunch that gondola systems are quite cheap, off-the-peg products, which is why they are merrily thrown up all over alpine leisure resorts.

The Wikipedia page for Emirates Skyline shows a wheelchair user embarking, it looks like its going to be much easier than getting into an actual train. If you got a bike you'll probably ride the short hop across town. Got heaps of luggage? You will want a station big enough for a taxi rank out front, not Foregate!

Goodness me, I'm just wondering how many stations Worcester needs: Worcester Foregate Street, Worcester Shrub Hill, Worcester Parkway and now a suggestion for Worcester West. I think 4 would be too many.

I would probably go for four: Shrub hill with gondola link downtown, Parkway to the Southeast, our proposed West station and a North station serving the industrial estates and A449 to the north of town

 

[Class172]

Goodness me, I'm just wondering how many stations Worcester needs: Worcester Foregate Street, Worcester Shrub Hill, Worcester Parkway and now a suggestion for Worcester West. I think 4 would be too many.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, how many stations does Exeter have? Neither places are exactly large.

 

[DarloRich]

May i ask if this is a dress rehearsal for the 1st of April?

 

[Bald Rick]

Disclaimer for any journalists local to Worcester who happen to be reading:

this is not a serious proposal, nor one that the rail industry will pay any attention to. There is no need to run a story on it.

 

[DavidGrain]

I use the Stourbridge Line in and out of Birmingham quite a bit, sometimes changing between train and tram at Jewellery Quarter. Last week fairly late in the evening, I was chatting to a fellow traveller on the platform at JQ and said, at least it will not be a Shrub Hill train. When the evening service is down to 2tph, it is ridiculous to put on a 2 car unit because nobody goes to Shrub Hill and forget all the people who want to go to the 14 stations in between. His reply to me was to ask me if I watched the TV programme Pointless as Shrub Hill ought be one of the answers on that programme.

I should mention that I have twice walked up the hill from Worcester city centre to Shrub Hill and it is not an easy walk and I was only doing it because I am a railway nut and I wanted to look at the semaphore signals at Shrub Hill before they disappeared. I think it would take me more than 10 minutes to do that walk.

For those who are not familiar with Worcester Foregate Street, this is not a convention double-track station with side platforms. The two tracks are two parallel single tracks so a train to Birmingham (and you have a choice of routes to New Street or to Snow Hill) could leave from either platform depending on whether or not the train will call at Shrub Hill. The junction was moved to the other side of the river to avoid conflicting movements in the triangular layout in Worcester.

I think we need to know more about planned services at Worcester Parkway before we can talk about the future of the two present stations. For example will XC trains stop there? At present XC trains from Birmingham and the north to Bristol and the west run straight through the whole county of Worcestershire without stopping anywhere. Will WMR trains which currently terminate or reverse at Shrub Hill continue to Parkway? Without these trains the only trains calling at Parkway will be the GWR Cotswold Line trains.

How much local traffic does Shrub Hill have? My thoughts are that the main use for Shrub Hill is to provide a connection between GWR trains and WMR trains but as not all WMR trains run via Shrub Hill then many of these passengers would change at Foregate Street anyway. Other than local traffic from the area round Shrub Hill, I would think that the only use for originating passengers is because there are some parking facilities there and the obvious need for a Parkway station is to provide inter connection between trains and cars.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Goodness me, I'm just wondering how many stations Worcester needs: Worcester Foregate Street, Worcester Shrub Hill, Worcester Parkway and now a suggestion for Worcester West. I think 4 would be too many.

Surely it depends on the question: Are they used adequately? I don't know the area, but given the conditions as I understand them, a station at or near Rushwick (is there space?) with a decent car park allowing quick access from the A4440 ring road would a) enable trains to turnround without blocking Foregate Str (as noted by jhy44) b) be fantastic news for Rushwick itself* and c) serve as a railhead for hundreds of folks in areas to the west of Worcester who could avoid driving into town, or even across to the new Worcester Parkway (again, as implied by jhy44). Sounds an idea well worth investigating to me - certainly better than some cable car supposedly eabling Foregate street to close. Which it wouldn't.

* Did Rushwick use to have a station, back in the days of yore?