What colour does a warning have to be before we pay attention?

[GusB]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...zing-night-vehicles-chaos-snowbound-motorway/

I'm quoting from the Telegraph (please forgive me), but I've just heard a similar story on the Classic FM news and the same numpty was quote in the Sun as saying "if you saw a man, two kids and a dog on the hard shoulder, it was me" (paraphrasing).

I'm aware that there is a similar thread in the general UK Railway discussions, but this has really annoyed me.

Yesterday an Amber warning was issued. Along with that Amber warning, our transport secretary made it clear that we were "on the cusp" of a red. Sure enough, the met office upgraded that amber today.

I can understand the need for people to get to work, and that some employers may be less sympathetic to travel disruption than others, but what on earth possesses someone to take their family out in the face of such warnings?

If his immediate thoughts were the safety of his children, why didn't this numpty just stay home in the first place?

Hundreds of motorists were facing the prospect of a freezing night trapped in their vehicles after they became stranded on one of Scotland’s busiest motorways.

The M80 between Glasgow and Stirling was gridlocked in two separate locations northbound after jack-knifed lorries and accidents caused huge tailbacks.

As emergency services struggled to tackle the problem, and with blizzard conditions in the area, people were urged to stay in their vehicles. HGVs were blamed for most of the issues, just hours after the Met Office issued a rare red warning of extreme weather and police urged people to stay off the roads.

Some drivers and passengers stuck for up to 10 hours took to social media to complain about the lack of information and to criticise haulage firms for sending out lorries in the severe conditions, while others abandoned their vehicles and set out on foot.

Stevie Buist said he left his car to walk on the hard shoulder with his children Lucy, five, and Logan, nine, and their dog, because he was low on diesel and his mobile phone battery was about to run out.

He told STV: "We got on the motorway at 2pm and at about 5.30pm I decided to leave the car.

”Your immediate thoughts were the safety of my children. I knew I couldn't run the engine overnight. Temperatures were dropping and it was already -3C so I couldn't make them sleep in the car."

 

[AM9]

Just looked at Google maps. Besides the hot (?) spots on the M80 where drivers have been stuck all night because they ignored very firm advice last night to not travel, most of the roads have orange traffic lines on the which whilst it means slow traffic speeds, also means that there is enough traffic on them to trigger any kind of response from Google. Why are all these drivers out on hazardous roads when there are so many warnings of poor weather?

 

[furnessvale]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...zing-night-vehicles-chaos-snowbound-motorway/

I'm quoting from the Telegraph (please forgive me), but I've just heard a similar story on the Classic FM news and the same numpty was quote in the Sun as saying "if you saw a man, two kids and a dog on the hard shoulder, it was me" (paraphrasing).

I'm aware that there is a similar thread in the general UK Railway discussions, but this has really annoyed me.

Yesterday an Amber warning was issued. Along with that Amber warning, our transport secretary made it clear that we were "on the cusp" of a red. Sure enough, the met office upgraded that amber today.

I can understand the need for people to get to work, and that some employers may be less sympathetic to travel disruption than others, but what on earth possesses someone to take their family out in the face of such warnings?

If his immediate thoughts were the safety of his children, why didn't this numpty just stay home in the first place?

All I can say is, his car must use a lot of fuel and his phone must use a lot of battery power for BOTH to nearly run out. After all, they were both full when he set out on this journey, in winter, with the reported weather conditions.............Weren't they?

 

[nlogax]

Like the 'driving vehicles under low bridges' thread, some people will just ignore every warning and plough on regardless (no pun intended). Doesn't matter if the alert is in flashing orange Comic Sans, they'll do it anyway.

The colour thing is a little daft though. 'Yellow' and 'snow' in the same sentence just shouldn't be a thing.

 

[Jonny]

I think a lot of the problem is that trucks are less adapted and more assertive than lighter vehicles, and are more prone to difficulties.

 

[Cowley]

My van is absolutely terrible on any kind of ice or mud, so I’ve just been out and panic bought alcohol and pizza, parked up and there it will stay until it’s safe to go out again.
I’ve actually got some snow chains in the shed but they’re really complicated to get on, especially when you’ve got frozen hands.
I went for a box of Merlot. That should do it.

 

[TheAlbanach_]

People don't pay attention .There needs to be better warnings telling people if they do travel it is at their own risk and they may be stranded. This should also be announced on trains and in stations as well as buses etc.

 

[Minilad]

Doesn't matter how many warnings you put out, or how severe they are, some people will always think they don't apply to them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Doesn't matter how many warnings you put out, or how severe they are, some people will always think they don't apply to them.

What is really needed is for the Government to have the ability to declare a national emergency and decree all businesses closed when a "red" warning is issued - i.e. a similar approach as applies to Christmas Day. That's what would happen in some other countries, and it would mean that most people would have no reason to travel as there would be nothing to travel to.

Without that, it is too much down to opinion, and people can't afford to lose a day's pay (or worse be sacked) for not attending work.

I'm not sure there is a legal framework for that at present.

 

[Cowley]

One of our girls has a shift in her new job in a pub tonight. It’s only her second shift and the pub is on the other side of town.
There’s no buses running and the roads are already starting to get covered with snow, peak blizzard time is 5pm which is when they expect her to get there.
She obviously won’t be able to get home and will have to walk a mile and a half to a friends house to stay the night and then walk the other two miles home tomorrow (we do make them walk places generally and try not to be helicopter parents too much).

I think this is ridiculous though and I’m on the brink of ringing them to tell em where to stick their job.
This is not essential travel and it means that we’ll have to take her. In the car.
There’s been a red warning issued for a reason. Unbelievable really.

I’m going to have to let Mrs C phone them as she’ll probably be a little more diplomatic than me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And this kind of thing is precisely why I made my post above.

The Government needs to mandate businesses to close when the red warning is reached, then there is a level playing field. They may well need to open some kind of "refugee centre" for stranded people e.g. in a school, but there is no need for the pubs to be open.

 

[Cowley]

And this kind of thing is precisely why I made my post above.

The Government needs to mandate businesses to close when the red warning is reached, then there is a level playing field. They may well need to open some kind of "refugee centre" for stranded people e.g. in a school, but there is no need for the pubs to be open.

I phoned them myself in the end and said no way will we be able to bring her.
I said to our daughter that if they get funny about it then they’re not worth working for.

 

[underbank]

I think it's more a matter of "false alarm fatigue". There seem to be weather warnings all the time these days, most of which turn out to be nothing, so people naturally start to lose interest. Same with fire and burglar alarms - they are activated so often that people just carry on as normal until they see something, i.e. other people taking action or the incident themselves. I was at a hospital yesterday when the fire alarm went off - I looked around, no-one was doing anything - patients and staff just carried on as normal, so I just ignored it too. A couple of years ago I was at a football stadium when the alarm sounded, together with recorded tannoy announcements for everyone to evacuate - no-one did, the match continued, the stewards continued to look bored. If I never went out whenever there was a weather warning, whether it be for rain, flooding, snow, wind, pollen, etc., I'd barely set foot outside.

 

[Antman]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...zing-night-vehicles-chaos-snowbound-motorway/

I'm quoting from the Telegraph (please forgive me), but I've just heard a similar story on the Classic FM news and the same numpty was quote in the Sun as saying "if you saw a man, two kids and a dog on the hard shoulder, it was me" (paraphrasing).

I'm aware that there is a similar thread in the general UK Railway discussions, but this has really annoyed me.

Yesterday an Amber warning was issued. Along with that Amber warning, our transport secretary made it clear that we were "on the cusp" of a red. Sure enough, the met office upgraded that amber today.

I can understand the need for people to get to work, and that some employers may be less sympathetic to travel disruption than others, but what on earth possesses someone to take their family out in the face of such warnings?

If his immediate thoughts were the safety of his children, why didn't this numpty just stay home in the first place?

Without knowing his circumstances it's impossible to say, and what right have you got to call him a numpty? Maybe he was trying to get home?

 

[Harpers Tate]

The Woodhead Pass between Sheffield and Manchester is unsurprisingly quite badly affected when we have a weather event. Just like those bright sparks being referred to here, there would always be numpties who got stranded despite the road being closed. There are now actual gates/barriers across the ends of it and that does seem to work. It's a sad indictment of the intelligence of some road users that such a step was necessary. Indeed, if "I ruled the World" I'd simply put up a sign and then let Darwin take its course.......

The thing is, "they" always tell you not to travel "unless you have to", but nobody ever defines when you have to, and when you don't, and Joe Public doesn't always have the capacity to work it out for himself.

 

[Antman]

The Woodhead Pass between Sheffield and Manchester is unsurprisingly quite badly affected when we have a weather event. Just like those bright sparks being referred to here, there would always be numpties who got stranded despite the road being closed. There are now actual gates/barriers across the ends of it and that does seem to work. It's a sad indictment of the intelligence of some road users that such a step was necessary. Indeed, if "I ruled the World" I'd simply put up a sign and then let Darwin take its course.......

The thing is, "they" always tell you not to travel "unless you have to", but nobody ever defines when you have to, and when you don't, and Joe Public doesn't always have the capacity to work it out for himself.

Then again they might be members of the emergency services trying to get into work? Just a thought.

As I understand it the main purpose of the barrier is to free up police resources?

 

[TheNewNo2]

The problem is that there are weather warnings for everything now.

A yellow warning of rain.

So... it's going to rain a bit. Not in an unusual or life-threatening way, just in your everyday rain way.

Why is that a weather warning?

We bombard people with so many warnings nowadays it's no surprise we ignore them all. When was the last time you read the safety information on your train, unless you were jammed up against the sign? Do you pay attention to "platform surfaces may be slippery" or "thieves operate on the railway network"? No, of course you don't, because it is not useful information to you. So when the announcer says something important, you've learnt to tune it out.

 

[Antman]

There is a major incident ongoing on the A31 in Hampshire with many motorists trapped.

 

[edwin_m]

I feel somewhat guilty about going to London and back yesterday. Getting there was no problem but the train back was 80 minutes late due, I now know, to a combination of units suffering weather-related failures and a snowdrift on the track. In mitigation I plead that when I set out EMT had no "do not travel" warning for the route and indeed were advertising a normal timetable apart from some early morning cancellations north of Derby. Forecasts and warning seemed wildly contradictory about what was actually going to happen.

 

[whhistle]

The Government needs to mandate businesses to close when the red warning is reached, then there is a level playing field.

It's not that simple though.

Look at all the people whose boilers have broken. Excellent that they have 24/7 British Gas cover, but when British Gas close two call centres in Scotland (because the staff can't get in), then British Gas can't cope with the calls and people end up calling out emergency plumbers.
Yes, perhaps BG shouldn't advertise 24/7 cover, but all it'll mean is that buried in some terms somewhere is a statement saying during Red Warning Weather, they can't guarantee any service at all. Yet more terms and conditions...

Don't get me wrong, it would be great if all businesses could close but it'll never happen like that.
Not yet anyway.
But with schools closing at the first sight of a snowflake, I should think it'll become more tolerant for businesses to close.

 

[Antman]

It's not that simple though.

Look at all the people whose boilers have broken. Excellent that they have 24/7 British Gas cover, but when British Gas close two call centres in Scotland (because the staff can't get in), then British Gas can't cope with the calls and people end up calling out emergency plumbers.
Yes, perhaps BG shouldn't advertise 24/7 cover, but all it'll mean is that buried in some terms somewhere is a statement saying during Red Warning Weather, they can't guarantee any service at all. Yet more terms and conditions...

Don't get me wrong, it would be great if all businesses could close but it'll never happen like that.
Not yet anyway.
But with schools closing at the first sight of a snowflake, I should think it'll become more tolerant for businesses to close.

Exactly there are far too many variables to have any sort of one size fits all law like that. I think most people have heeded advice not to travel unless necessary.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not that simple though.

Well, it sort of is.

To me, logic would be to apply the same rules and conventions as on Christmas Day. Generally, the approach taken on that day does form a pretty reasonable split between essential and non-essential.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Look at all the people whose boilers have broken. Excellent that they have 24/7 British Gas cover, but when British Gas close two call centres in Scotland (because the staff can't get in), then British Gas can't cope with the calls and people end up calling out emergency plumbers.
Yes, perhaps BG shouldn't advertise 24/7 cover, but all it'll mean is that buried in some terms somewhere is a statement saying during Red Warning Weather, they can't guarantee any service at all. Yet more terms and conditions...

There are two things that would help the boiler issues.

1. Everyone putting out communications saying that the cause is almost certainly a frozen condensate pipe and how to defrost it (a couple of kettles of boiling water then the reset button). A good many small plumbers have been forwarding this around FB, but British Gas don't seem to have sent anything out...maybe they should! Also a good case for a TV public information film. It might actually genuinely save lives.

It doesn't help that boiler fault codes are often not helpful - mine spoke of ignition failure, not of condensate pipe blockage even though the latter was the cause.

2. Boiler installations having a release tap of some kind to allow condensate to drain easily into a bucket where the frozen pipe is inaccessible (as it is on my installation). I pulled it out of the boiler (on many it's a rubber push fit as it is not pressurised) and bodged a temporary pipe on, but most people wouldn't be confident to do that. I think I'm likely to fit something like that to mine once this has all cleared up, certainly if it happens again.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

The problem is that there are weather warnings for everything now.

A yellow warning of rain.

So... it's going to rain a bit. Not in an unusual or life-threatening way, just in your everyday rain way.

Why is that a weather warning?

We bombard people with so many warnings nowadays it's no surprise we ignore them all. When was the last time you read the safety information on your train, unless you were jammed up against the sign? Do you pay attention to "platform surfaces may be slippery" or "thieves operate on the railway network"? No, of course you don't, because it is not useful information to you. So when the announcer says something important, you've learnt to tune it out.

I can recall late last year we were told of a rain event that was going to dump about 300mm of rain over 3 days in Melbourne. The carry on about it was silly."It's a 10 out of 10" "A once in a generation weather event" It was being built up as being Armageddon.
People were sent home early from work, events cancelled and whatnot.

145mm was the max in the city over those days. It flooded in the bits that normally flood. The rain wasn't exactly anything out of the ordinary.
It rained a bit more in the country areas where it did flood a little.

I 2011 this happened in my local area:

That lake was because of the remnants of a cyclone.

That massive lake didn't happen last year.

 

[whhistle]

There are two things that would help the boiler issues...

Although my boiler is old and doesn't have the condensing pipe.
Frozen pipes somewhere in the back though (into the extension) as no cold water in the guest area of my house. Did I find the cause? No :P But it's obviously melted as checked yesterday and the toilet cistern was full again.

 

[whhistle]

I 2011 this happened in my local area:
<snip>
That lake was because of the remnants of a cyclone.

Reminds me of this:

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

Reminds me of this:

From South Yarra station in 1907:

 

[fowler9]

There are two things that would help the boiler issues.

1. Everyone putting out communications saying that the cause is almost certainly a frozen condensate pipe and how to defrost it (a couple of kettles of boiling water then the reset button). A good many small plumbers have been forwarding this around FB, but British Gas don't seem to have sent anything out...maybe they should! Also a good case for a TV public information film. It might actually genuinely save lives.

It doesn't help that boiler fault codes are often not helpful - mine spoke of ignition failure, not of condensate pipe blockage even though the latter was the cause.

2. Boiler installations having a release tap of some kind to allow condensate to drain easily into a bucket where the frozen pipe is inaccessible (as it is on my installation). I pulled it out of the boiler (on many it's a rubber push fit as it is not pressurised) and bodged a temporary pipe on, but most people wouldn't be confident to do that. I think I'm likely to fit something like that to mine once this has all cleared up, certainly if it happens again.

Don't expect any organisation or company to tell people how to defrost the condensate pipe any time soon. The company I work for has had calls queueing none stop the last few days with an L2 error code which has normally been because the condensate pipe has frozen. We aren't allowed to tell people to pour warm water over the pipe in case we get sued when someone tips a kettle of boiling water over their hand. We also can't tell people how to top up the pressure in the boiler because they just keep doing it until the boiler packs in rather than getting an engineer out to find out why the boiler is loosing pressure.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't expect any organisation or company to tell people how to defrost the condensate pipe any time soon. The company I work for has had calls queueing none stop the last few days with an L2 error code which has normally been because the condensate pipe has frozen. We aren't allowed to tell people to pour warm water over the pipe in case we get sued when someone tips a kettle of boiling water over their hand. We also can't tell people how to top up the pressure in the boiler because they just keep doing it until the boiler packs in rather than getting an engineer out to find out why the boiler is loosing pressure.

What, like this?

British Gas video of how to defrost condensate pipe

Or this?

British Gas video of how to pressurise heating system

That seems to be British Gas telling people to do things that you think they aren't allowed to tell them

An email went out with a load of links to these videos from British Gas a few hours after I posted the question as to why they weren't doing it.

Boilers mostly lose pressure because of small leaks, often due to corrosion, in the radiators and pipework rather than anything serious. Mine used to need repressurising about once every 2 weeks or so, then I spray-painted the radiators (just as part of redecorating, not for any technical reason) and the paint was enough to block the tiny leaks causing it (often so small that they dry up before even getting to the bottom of the pipe) and the loss stopped.

 

[fowler9]

What, like this?

British Gas video of how to defrost condensate pipe

Or this?

British Gas video of how to pressurise heating system

That seems to be British Gas telling people to do things that you think they aren't allowed to tell them

An email went out with a load of links to these videos from British Gas a few hours after I posted the question as to why they weren't doing it.

Boilers mostly lose pressure because of small leaks, often due to corrosion, in the radiators and pipework rather than anything serious. Mine used to need repressurising about once every 2 weeks or so, then I spray-painted the radiators (just as part of redecorating, not for any technical reason) and the paint was enough to block the tiny leaks causing it (often so small that they dry up before even getting to the bottom of the pipe) and the loss stopped.

Ha ha, alright let me re word that. You may find landlords, social landlords and the like a bit more reticent when it comes to giving such advice, despite the fact it costs them more sending engineers out.