WMTrains livery and station branding

[Eliottjames]

Just got on a 323 out of New Street and was surprised to see that WMT have fitted the unit with screens at each end of the carriage that scrolls between information on the destination, next stop, connecting services and a BBC news feed. Anyone know if this will be fitted to all 323’s or is it a one off? Nice to see the units getting some attention before they go!

 

[TwinTurbostar]

Just got on a 323 out of New Street and was surprised to see that WMT have fitted the unit with screens at each end of the carriage that scrolls between information on the destination, next stop, connecting services and a BBC news feed. Anyone know if this will be fitted to all 323’s or is it a one off? Nice to see the units getting some attention before they go!

I noticed that a while back on a 323 heading into New Street, but it only displayed the West Midlands Railway logo when I was on it. Interesting that it has the BBC News feed, I wonder if that updates at all while inside the New Street tunnels or in the station.

 

[59CosG95]

Just got on a 323 out of New Street and was surprised to see that WMT have fitted the unit with screens at each end of the carriage that scrolls between information on the destination, next stop, connecting services and a BBC news feed. Anyone know if this will be fitted to all 323’s or is it a one off? Nice to see the units getting some attention before they go!

Did you happen to find out which unit it was?
I remember LM installed them in 323221 as a trial, displaying the stops on the service, offers for days out and the BBC News page, as well as the company logo. WMR's updated version got rid of the offers.
More recently, it only had them in the centre coach (the 722xx one) and then seemed to lose them altogether (though they could have been replaced).

 

[Eliottjames]

Did you happen to find out which unit it was?
I remember LM installed them in 323221 as a trial, displaying the stops on the service, offers for days out and the BBC News page, as well as the company logo. WMR's updated version got rid of the offers.
More recently, it only had them in the centre coach (the 722xx one) and then seemed to lose them altogether (though they could have been replaced).

Afraid that I didn’t get the number but the screens were in the front coach on the unit that I was on...

 

[Spirit555]

323221 is the only unit fitted with screens. Not been on it recently. It was done in conjunction with the BTP livery on coach 72221.

HTH

 

[DavidGrain]

On the Cross City line yesterday I twice travelled on the unit that has the all over BTP advertising on the second car. The top lights to all the windows were blacked out with dark adverting showing externally. Made very depressing journeys.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Saw a LNR branded 350 in the sun while driving alongside the line on the A5 in MK. Really reminded me of Trebor mints:

So, we had FGW Flying Fag Packet livery, this one should probably be the Flying Trebor Mint livery, or somesuch

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Saw a LNR branded 350 in the sun while driving alongside the line on the A5 in MK. Really reminded me of Trebor mints:

So, we had FGW Flying Fag Packet livery, this one should probably be the Flying Trebor Mint livery, or somesuch

And Double Decker chocolate for WMR!

 

[DavidGrain]

If you see an LM train from the side from a distance away. it always makes me think it is a train of little 4 wheel coaches as the doors and carriage ends break up the line into little rectangle blocks.

 

[185143]

Class 172 are going through C4 maintenance (complete bogie overhaul and other bits under floor). None are coming out with new vinyls.

All 172's have WM train logo.

172213 has a modified WMR branding which appears be a one off on the diesal fleet. Very subtle but all the elememts of the WMR trains branding inc logo are all individual as apposed to one big rectangular banner stuck on the LM colour scheme.

One conductor has a home made WMR name badge thats about the size of a postcard. Massive.

I saw that conductor last time I was in Brum! Wondered what the hell that thing was...

 

[hexagon789]

Saw a LNR branded 350 in the sun while driving alongside the line on the A5 in MK. Really reminded me of Trebor mints:

So, we had FGW Flying Fag Packet livery, this one should probably be the Flying Trebor Mint livery, or somesuch

Ha ha, the likeness is quite uncanny! Dare I say the Mints Packets look better than the trains though?

 

[nat67]

Saw a LNR branded 350 in the sun while driving alongside the line on the A5 in MK. Really reminded me of Trebor mints:

So, we had FGW Flying Fag Packet livery, this one should probably be the Flying Trebor Mint livery, or somesuch

To me it reminds me of a cucumber, or a person who is feeling sick and all green in the face.

 

[507021]

Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but are there any updates on the additional 319s?

 

[JordyWM]

So nearly four months into the new franchise, any more trains apart from the two launch liveries in the new colours yet?

 

[mushroomchow]

And Double Decker chocolate for WMR!

I still stand by that "jaundiced tellytubby" is a far more apt description for that abomination of a livery.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Coming from the South, the WMR & LNR designs look wacky in an eye catching way that WMR's more so. Awful or garish they may seem to be however livelier and extraordinary not vanilla like plain white or grey background like VT or GA.

If you had only two choices offered, which livery/branding would you accept over the other - LNR & WMR or SWR?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Coming from the South, the WMR & LNR designs look wacky in an eye catching way that WMR's more so. Awful or garish they may seem to be however livelier and extraordinary not vanilla like plain white or grey background like VT or GA.

If you had only two choices offered, which livery/branding would you accept over the other - LNR & WMR or SWR?

I like the WMR branding so that would get my prize. It has lots of West Midlands relevant elements:-
- The W M thing (which looks oddly 1970s, and has in common with Merseytravel/Merseyrail the use of an M that is actually an upside down W).
- The diamonds pointing to Birmingham's jewellery heritage
- The logo as a whole has a slightly Moorish look about it, which might denote Birmingham's not insignificant Muslim population
- The purple for Cadbury's

I'd go for LNR over SWR as it's less bland and more colourful, but both are quite poor brands as a whole, in particular LNR doesn't seem to know what brand image it is trying to portray.

 

[Rail Blues]

I like the WMR branding so that would get my prize. It has lots of West Midlands relevant elements:-
- The W M thing (which looks oddly 1970s, and has in common with Merseytravel/Merseyrail the use of an M that is actually an upside down W).
- The diamonds pointing to Birmingham's jewellery heritage
- The logo as a whole has a slightly Moorish look about it, which might denote Birmingham's not insignificant Muslim population
- The purple for Cadbury's

I'd go for LNR over SWR as it's less bland and more colourful, but both are quite poor brands as a whole, in particular LNR doesn't seem to know what brand image it is trying to portray.

I think you are reading far too much into these design elements. The notion that the design contains Moorish elements to reflect Birmingham's Muslim population is a bit unlikely given that the overwhelming majority trace their heritage back to Pakistan, India and Bangladesh.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think you are reading far too much into these design elements. The notion that the design contains Moorish elements to reflect Birmingham's Muslim population is a bit unlikely given that the overwhelming majority trace their heritage back to Pakistan, India and Bangladesh.

There are Moorish elements and similar in Islamic architecture all around the world. I don't know if it was deliberate or not, but that's what it says to me.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Ha ha! I don't expect to see any takers for the undertakers like SWR!

I like the WMR branding so that would get my prize. It has lots of West Midlands references:
- The purple for Cadbury's

This is quite fitting as I am strongly reminded of Double Decker, which is made by them, from the orange colouring.

Also shades from the defunct WM county council logo which is present in the current WM county flag.

I'd go for LNR over SWR as it's less bland and more colourful, but both are quite poor brands as a whole, in particular LNR doesn't seem to know what brand image it is trying to portray.

I think LNR's branding took some cues from LM, by continuing the green colouring though with less black. Also the signage and decors in LNR stations probably wouldn't change drastically as there's green already visible.

In a similar vein down in SW way, SWT's primary colour may have been red however dark blue is prominent at stations, so now SWR are also using this with cyan and dark grey so it is likely I won't see big changes with the station decor.

Getting back to LNR, as you say, it doesn't seem to know what its theme etc. I believe WMR gets the bigger focus as it was specified to be operated separately from WC services so a totally new theme was devleoped from scratch which LNR just continued the similiarity from LM however with different patterning.

If TfWM didn't exist then the entire WM franchise still would be operated with a single TOC brand, like LM, that this could have been all WMR with the orange-purple livery also seen at Euston & Liverpool...

 

[sprinterguy]

So nearly four months into the new franchise, any more trains apart from the two launch liveries in the new colours yet?

Nope, no change. Though all the units that I've noticed around the Birmingham area appear to have the appropriate WMR/LNR insignia applied over the London Midland base livery now.

If TfWM didn't exist then the entire WM franchise still would be operated with a single TOC brand, like LM, that this could have been all WMR with the orange-purple livery also seen at Euston & Liverpool...

Given that it's the purple and orange West Midlands identity that was developed by the West Midlands Rail local authority consortium, I'm not sure why you think that's the one that would have been adopted. It's the London Northwestern Railway identity that has been developed by Abellio, and would likely have been the one used across the franchise if a separate West Midlands business unit hadn't been stipulated - As you've noted the LNR colour scheme offers some synergy with the previous London Midland livery, especially in terms of the branding applied over the LM base colours.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Nope, no change. Though all the units that I've noticed around the Birmingham area appear to have the appropriate WMR/LNR insignia applied over the London Midland base livery now.

Given that it's the purple and orange West Midlands identity that was developed by the West Midlands Rail local authority consortium, I'm not sure why you think that's the one that would have been adopted. It's the London Northwestern Railway identity that has been developed by Abellio, and would likely have been the one used across the franchise if a separate West Midlands business unit hadn't been stipulated - As you've noted the LNR colour scheme offers some synergy with the previous London Midland livery, especially in terms of the branding applied over the LM base colours.

Ah, thanks for correcting me. I thought both brands were developed by Abellio, also collaborating with the LAC specially for WMR so interesting that Abellio only came up with one just for LNR.

If Abellio had the whole franchise operating with one TOC, they may want to move away from the "London xxx" naming for something totally different such as WMR as the franchise is called WM and focusing on that region also the parent company is called WMT. The TOC may have been WMR in extended form like EMT, the EM franchise holder, also running outside the EM region to London.

The WMR livery would be great for promotion if this was seen outside the WM region as they are using 2for1 adverts for regional attractions stuck on the train carriages. This could bring curiosity & interest at Euston from tourists unfamiliar with the West Midlands.

Anyway, thanks again for the correction.

 

[sprinterguy]

Ah, thanks for correcting me. I thought both brands were developed by Abellio, also collaborating with the LAC specially for WMR so interesting that Abellio only came up with one just for LNR.

If Abellio had the whole franchise operating with one TOC, they may want to move away from the "London xxx" naming for something totally different such as WMR as the franchise is called WM and focusing on that region also the parent company is called WMT. The TOC may have been WMR in extended form like EMT, the EM franchise holder, also running outside the EM region to London.

Abellio had input in the final design of the West Midlands livery - it's noticeably different to the mock up originally produced by TfWM - but the overall colour palette and design elements had already been established.

It is quite possible that Abellio may have chosen a West Midlands specific name for a franchise wide brand, but I wouldn't have expected the overall livery to be drastically different in application to the LNR one, other than the necessary change in initials incorporated into the logo.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

It is quite possible that Abellio may have chosen a West Midlands specific name for a franchise wide brand, but I wouldn't have expected the overall livery to be drastically different in application to the LNR one, other than the necessary change in initials incorporated into the logo.

Agreed, just picture the WMR livery in LM/LNR greens instead of purple-orange!

 

[JordyWM]

To see Abellio’s Deutschland train liveries, makes you wonder how WM Trains have had something so horrendous. Maybe it’s the designers over here?

 

[Bletchleyite]

To see Abellio’s Deutschland train liveries, makes you wonder how WM Trains have had something so horrendous. Maybe it’s the designers over here?

There is an Abellio UK livery which is very similar to the German one - white, with a charcoal window surround and red doors. Presumably the reason this has not been used is that it isn't an Abellio-only franchise, it's a consortium. Abellio seem to take this rather more seriously than First historically did in terms of not just branding things themselves - Northern similarly used a specific livery rather than generic Abellio.

Mind you old-Northern had a slightly iffy livery too - it always looked imbalanced to me the way the stripes were laid out. Even more so than the N balloons.

 

[Rail Blues]

Old northern livery looked really dated. The stripes looked like go faster stripes that BritidB Leyland would have put on a 'sporty' version of an Allegro or a Princess.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Old northern livery looked really dated. The stripes looked like go faster stripes that BritidB Leyland would have put on a 'sporty' version of an Allegro or a Princess.

Or a 1980s bus, where diagonal stripes were the thing. I always thought they went the wrong way, though - the bit going out towards the cab should have gone towards the centre of the unit.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Old northern livery looked really dated. The stripes looked like go faster stripes that BritidB Leyland would have put on a 'sporty' version of an Allegro or a Princess.

When I first saw the old Northern brand, I thought it was an utility company providing electricity for the North! I used to get mine years ago from SWEB which the W was italicised like the N

 

[johnw]

The old Northern livery was horrid but was greatly improved with the brilliant ant Northern Electrics livery and brand. The new Northern brand is a wasted opportunity though.

It’s a shame NWR couldn’t have adapted the London Midland livery as it still looks fresh.