1P07 2031 London Euston [EUS] - Preston [PRE] 24/02/18

[Bletchleyite]

Believe it fella, it happens a lot. I have seen them refuse many many passengers for many many reasons, very very few of them could be deemed valid.

They can also be quite rude and abrasive, such as the coach driver who quite audibly had a several minute rant to a dispatcher about how I was a complete idiot for having the temerity to think it was OK to take coffee on his coach even lidded (despite this being permitted on National Express and Megabus), during which time I was sitting on said coach drinking said coffee, rather than the more polite alternative of "I'm sorry, we don't allow coffee on our coaches, can you drink it before you get on, please?" which would actually have resulted in me not drinking coffee on his coach and him looking like less of a ranting idiot.

 

[Temple Meads]

Yes, there are some lazy/rude/passenger hating coach drivers, but equally there are some lazy/rude/passenger hating train crew... In my experience though the vast majority of both occupations are perfectly reasonable people doing a job.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, there are some lazy/rude/passenger hating coach drivers, but equally there are some lazy/rude/passenger hating train crew... In my experience though the vast majority of both occupations are perfectly reasonable people doing a job.

This is true, but I have absolutely seen far more poor quality staff on rubber tyres than on steel wheels. Though the significantly different salaries may go some way to explaining that.

 

[Temple Meads]

This is true, but I have absolutely seen far more poor quality staff on rubber tyres than on steel wheels. Though the significantly different salaries may go some way to explaining that.

Yes, I would agree - that is a very valid point I suspect!

 

[greyman42]

Why would a 'large number' of Everton fans be on a late evening Preston train departing Euston 20 minutes after a direct (and final) service to Liverpool?

EDIT:

It calls at Watford (the match was at Watford), the Liverpool train doesn't, so presumably the fans would have arranged taxis from Crewe or Warrington.

Glad I avoided that one. Liverpudlian football fans and a delay so long the train runs out of reserve power - what could be worse?

https://twitter.com/eds_nicola/status/967536127480647681

Would it have been better to put in an additional stop at Watford for the last service to Liverpool or would that have caused other problems?

 

[bb21]

How long is a piece of string?

 

[Intermodal]

How long is a piece of string?

The sum of the distance between the two ends.

 

[All Line Rover]

Would it have been better to put in an additional stop at Watford for the last service to Liverpool or would that have caused other problems?

VTWC ran an additional Pendolino service, departing Watford Junction at 19:57 and running non-stop to Liverpool Lime Street. (They also ran an additional 19:18 Liverpool to London service for the, considerably earlier, Liverpool v West Ham match.) Excellent pro-activity.

However, the 19:57 appears to have been too early for many Everton supporters given the number of them, including unattended young children, on the 20:46 to Preston. (The match finished around 19:20.) If I were in VTWC's shoes I would have run the additional service later and removed the Watford call from the Preston train (with suitable advance publicity) to ensure that regular services were not afflicted by Liverpudlian football supporters who had had time to get drunk in Watford.

 

[6Gman]

I find it impossible to believe that coach drivers, who will have been called out from their warm homes at short notice, would drive to a job then turn round without good reason. If not happy to do the job, and get the cash for it in the first place they would not have left their homes in the first place.

They would not have to agree to doing the job in the first place, spare drivers waiting for work do not exist

I'm guessing they thought they would just be picking up a handful of returning passengers and when they saw a few hundred football fans indulged their prejudices and decided it meant trouble.

 

[bb21]

Speaking from experience, if running extra football specials, where possible, running later journey opportunities is more productive on many fronts.

The "troublesome" ones mostly look for last journey opportunities, to allow for a "fuller" day out.

 

[LowLevel]

It's not right but I can to a degree sympathise. Late Saturday evening passengers are rarely much fun to be around especially if you're trapped in a coach driving them around.

I know this because I have to carry them around on trains and dodging puke and fights is often the order of the evening!

 

[greyman42]

You make some good points there. I did not realise VTWC had run an additional service departing 19-57. I think that the 19-57 departure time was pushing it for fans to catch who will not have been familiar with Watford and where the station was. It is always harder to find your way back to places in the dark and as you point out, they would of had a few pints. A later departure would of been better but I don't know if that would of been possible.

 

[All Line Rover]

Talking of handling disruption poorly, this evening Virgin cancelled the last train from London Euston (22:00) / Milton Keynes / Rugby / Nuneaton to Nuneaton / Tamworth / Lichfield / Stafford / Crewe, and the last train from Manchester Piccadilly (21:15) / Stockport / Macclesfield / Stoke to Milton Keynes / Watford / Euston. Contrary to common practice, they didn't add calls to any alternative services and, exceptionally for final trains, didn't delay earlier services - even though, owing to earlier minor disruption, the 21.10 from Euston to Preston departed Euston late at 21.35, and the 20.15 from Piccadilly to Euston departed Piccadilly late at 20.50! It wouldn't have taken much to delay these trains a little further until 22.00 and 21.15 respectively to avoid passengers becoming stranded at numerous stations, a number of which have no visible staff or sheltered waiting rooms on late evenings - a particular concern on an evening with -5°C temperatures pre-windchill.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is unusual. Obviously they will be required to make alternative arrangements (and the snow is not such that they have any excuse not to), I wonder what those will be, hotels?

Interestingly the 2200 has operated to Crewe ECS as 5K77 vice 1K77. No guard perhaps? There has been minor disruption due to a breakdown at Tile Hill in the middle of the afternoon, at least one VT Euston service went via Nuneaton.

Similarly the set at Manc Picc operated south about 40 minutes late as 5A75 vice 1A75. Again no guard perhaps?

 

[All Line Rover]

Yes, no guards. The 21.15 is also running ECS to Euston right now. Surely Virgin knew about the lack of available guards by 21.35 / 20.50?

EDIT: Looks like the 23:00 to Manchester (via Stoke) will now call additionally at Milton Keynes, Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield and Stafford, meaning that, northbound, only passengers for Crewe will require taxis (from, most likely, Stoke).

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW there is almost no Twittering about it, just one request for a refund and someone else complaining about an hour's delay. VTWC late evening midweek tends to be very quiet, perhaps very few actually affected.

 

[FManc]

Talking of handling disruption poorly, this evening Virgin cancelled the last train from London Euston (22:00) / Milton Keynes / Rugby / Nuneaton to Nuneaton / Tamworth / Lichfield / Stafford / Crewe, and the last train from Manchester Piccadilly (21:15) / Stockport / Macclesfield / Stoke to Milton Keynes / Watford / Euston. Contrary to common practice, they didn't add calls to any alternative services and, exceptionally for final trains, didn't delay earlier services - even though, owing to earlier minor disruption, the 21.10 from Euston to Preston departed Euston late at 21.35, and the 20.15 from Piccadilly to Euston departed Piccadilly late at 20.50! It wouldn't have taken much to delay these trains a little further until 22.00 and 21.15 respectively to avoid passengers becoming stranded at numerous stations, a number of which have no visible staff or sheltered waiting rooms on late evenings - a particular concern on an evening with -5°C temperatures pre-windchill.

So from what I've gathered passengers from the 21.15 MAN-EUS were advised to travel on the XC 21.27 to Wolverhampton and then change for the VT 22.45 WVH-EUS service which was held for connecting passengers. I think it left 6 minutes late in the end.

Additional stop orders have been put in for the 2300 EUS-MAN vice the capped 2200. It's calling additionally at a fair few stations. I think all of the 2200 stops bar Crewe. I imagine taxis will be put on for any Crewe passengers from Stoke.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So from what I've gathered passengers from the 21.15 MAN-EUS were advised to travel on the XC 21.27 to Wolverhampton and then change for the VT 22.45 WVH-EUS service which was held for connecting passengers. I think it left 6 minutes late in the end.

Additional stop orders have been put in for the 2300 EUS-MAN vice the capped 2200. It's calling additionally at a fair few stations. I think all of the 2200 stops bar Crewe. I imagine taxis will be put on for any Crewe passengers from Stoke.

Sounds like some sensible operations there, then, no doubt why there are few complaints.

 

[All Line Rover]

So from what I've gathered passengers from the 21.15 MAN-EUS were advised to travel on the XC 21.27 to Wolverhampton and then change for the VT 22.45 WVH-EUS service which was held for connecting passengers. I think it left 6 minutes late in the end.

Good. Still worse than holding the 20.15 departure for another 25 minutes, but better than nothing. I believe Macclesfield, being a VT station, is staffed late evenings despite being sparse, so passengers would be informed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not necessarily; holding the 20:15 that long could knacker a load of connections.

 

[FManc]

Good. Still worse than holding the 20.15 departure for another 25 minutes, but better than nothing. I believe Macclesfield, being a VT station, is still staffed late evenings despite being sparse, so passengers would be informed.

Yeah there's always someone at Stoke/Macclesfield/Stockport until the 2300 pulls in at stupid o'clock in the morning.

 

[All Line Rover]

Not necessarily; holding the 20:15 that long could knacker a load of connections.

Given that the interchange stations the 20.15 is scheduled to call at don't see a thinning of services until the very late evening, I wouldn't expect a 21.15 vice 20.50 departure to worsen connectional problems already caused by a 20.50 vice 20.15 departure. It would, however, offer peace of mind for those passengers who had intended to catch the 21.15.

 

[Alistair G.]

Whoever wrote the control log need to check their facts then.


It did. It sounded like a real faff reading the log - 2044 train came to a stop, 0324 on the move, 0400 all sorted. Coupling to the thunderbird was delayed due to the amount of equipment isolation required - which is everything.

I get that it’s gonna take a while but I’ve never known 6 hours before and i feel pretty sure if that was the peak, that pendo would have been moved much quicker by virgin!. Maybe I’m wrong?!.

Still, another story for the scrap book!