Timetables to be delayed as a result of works

[skifans]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43168977

Passenger groups have reacted angrily to news that hundreds of train timetables are likely to be published later than usual.

Rail users are normally told about new timetables 12 weeks in advance, enabling them to book cheap tickets.

But the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) has announced that over the next six months passengers may get as little as four weeks' notice of new train times.

It blamed a huge number of timetable changes coming up in May.

The change will happen from this Sunday, 12 weeks ahead of the new Spring timetable, and is likely to affect travellers for at least six months.

Passenger groups predicted there would be "real disbelief and discontent" about the lack of advance information.

"Passengers have been badly let down and will be deeply frustrated that they can't make plans with certainty," said Anthony Smithy, the chief executive of Transport Focus.

"They are also at risk of paying more."

Cheap advance fares usually become available three months before travel, meaning that some passengers could book their tickets, but find that cheaper fares become available nearer the time of travel.

Some train operators are said to be furious about the late publication of timetables.

The Office of Rail and Road - the industry regulator - said it would be conducting an informal enquiry into what had gone wrong.

In theory it has the power to fine Network Rail, although that would be seen as a measure of last resort.
The RDG - which represents both the train operators and Network Rail - said the May timetable change was "the biggest in living memory", with the rescheduling of almost four million services, seven times more than usual.

It also said there were significant delays with engineering works, such as the electrification of the line between Manchester and Preston.

"We recognise this will be inconvenient for some passengers and can only apologise that we've had to take this step," said Jo Kaye a managing director at Network Rail.

The RDG said the problems would only affect passengers "in a small number of instances". Normally only 2% of passengers book more than six weeks in advance.

It is advising rail users to book their tickets as usual, and then claim a refund if a cheaper fare is subsequently available.

Those whose train service is cancelled will be eligible for a full refund.

 

[eastdyke]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43168977

Extract of quote from RDG:

It is advising rail users to book their tickets as usual, and then claim a refund if a cheaper fare is subsequently available.

How does that work then?

 

[ScotGG]

Is there a rough plan for when Thameslink's May timetables are out and in particular the new service via Greenwich?

 

[mallard]

It is advising rail users to book their tickets as usual, and then claim a refund if a cheaper fare is subsequently available.

And give the TOCs £10 a pop for the privilegde... Sure.

Those whose train service is cancelled will be eligible for a full refund.

That should also include re-timed services. How is the average passenger going to tell the difference between a train that's been re-timed 20 minutes later and a train that's been "cancelled" (removed from the timetable) and a different service added 20 minutes later? Why should that particular technical point even matter?

 

[pdeaves]

That should also include re-timed services. How is the average passenger going to tell the difference between a train that's been re-timed 20 minutes later and a train that's been "cancelled" (removed from the timetable) and a different service added 20 minutes later? Why should that particular technical point even matter?

I suspect from the simplified 'public' language that the intention is to include retimed services. As you point out, retimed=cancelled, as far as users who don't follow the minutiae are concerned.

 

[Mathew S]

I suspect from the simplified 'public' language that the intention is to include retimed services. As you point out, retimed=cancelled, as far as users who don't follow the minutiae are concerned.

Indeed. I would imagine that, from a Consumer Rights Act perspective, any other course of action would be fairly indefensible.

 

[Barn]

Is there a rough plan for when Thameslink's May timetables are out and in particular the new service via Greenwich?

No idea how final it is, but you can see the draft Thameslink timings integrated into the draft Southeastern timetables here:

https://www.southeasternrailway.co....may-2018/se-greenwich-line-may-2018.pdf?la=en

 

[The Planner]

It isn't a brilliant quote from the RDG, it is the fact that the timetables in places are having to be re-written as works aren't complete and some TOCs re-bidding, not the timetable changes themselves (although they were the largest changes for a good while). To get the LTP plan fit then STP gets sidelined for a while.

 

[30907]

Extract of quote from RDG:

How does that work then?

See this thread with the full press release
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ckets-are-subsequently-made-available.161147/

 

[Taunton]

From the BBC :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43168977

The Office of Rail and Road - the industry regulator - said it would be conducting an informal enquiry into what had gone wrong.

Just an "informal enquiry" then. Clearly the Regulator has not grasped what their role is about. Time for Joanna Whittington to consider her position - or have it considered for her by the Public Accounts Committee, just like they did with her predecessor Richard Price, who they stated had been "asleep on the job". He had to resign https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/19/rail-regulator-new-chief-executive-network-rail

I always thought Sir Peter Hendy was going to shake up these issues at NR.

 

[eastdyke]

See this thread with the full press release
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ckets-are-subsequently-made-available.161147/

Many thanks.

 

[Dr Hoo]

But what would a 'formal' enquiry gain?

Surely there is no real mystery that the problems have arisen as a result of previous (orderly) plans being trashed as result of non-delivery of various upgrades. These are preventing rolling stock cascades, etc.

Besides having to re-plan the ordinary timetable, additional engineering work is also having to be scheduled.

As is always the case on the railway, skills are highly specialised and in short supply (electrification, signal testing, stock commissioning, driving, timetabling, etc.)

Even if things weren't 'going wrong' there was already a massive peak in new stuff coming on stream during 2018 that would stretch timetable planning to the limit.

 

[Mathew S]

There is an information page which has appeared on the National Rail website at: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/timetablechange

Temporary changes to train timetables
Network Rail is making temporary changes to the advanced availability of final timetables for up to six months from 20 May onwards, meaning these will be available later than normal.

This means that in a small number of instances, you may not be able to book tickets until less than the usual 12 weeks before travel. Where it is only possible to book tickets less than 12 weeks in advance, train operators will still offer the same range of discounted tickets. If trains are cancelled, the normal compensation mechanisms will apply - if people have booked on a train that is cancelled, delayed, or where their reservation will not be honored, and they decide not to travel, they will be given a full refund. If people buy a ticket for a service affected by this change and then, at a later date advance tickets are made available which are at a cheaper fare, customers should book the advance fare for that service and then request a fee-free refund on their original ticket.

Customers are advised to try and book as normal. Most tickets will be on sale as normal – including those which can already be booked at 12 weeks in advance or more - but some may not and customers can either sign up with their train company where possible or at National Rail Enquiries to receive emails about the latest availability of tickets.

Please click and enter your travel details below to check if your journey will be affected.

There is an information box for each TOC, all of which state that more information will be available 'before 2nd March'.

 

[Class 170101]

The Island Line you would think they should be able to sort very quickly.

 

[Hadders]

All booking sites should be made to have a pop up box prior to payment giving details of this.

I bet it won't happen though.

 

[Starmill]

This is already negatively impacting me. Virgin Trains and CrossCountry have opened a number of dates in their May timetable for reservation. As a result of railway industry policy, the only way to get value for money on many of their routes is to book as soon as tickets go on sale. Doubly so as Virgin Trains ran a sale last week. However, there is no Northern timetable uploaded for these dates. I have therefore been forced to book for VT and XC services without knowing what times my connecting Northern trains will be at. What's more I have obviously been unable to book through from my local station, meaning that I will have to buy an additional ticket at higher cost than a through advance.

If the booking horizon were moving in, that would not concern me at all. But it isn't - lots of tickets are now going on sale for the May timetable despite very large parts of it still being missing. This is not good.

 

[skifans]

This is already negatively impacting me. Virgin Trains and CrossCountry have opened a number of dates in their May timetable for reservation. As a result of railway industry policy, the only way to get value for money on many of their routes is to book as soon as tickets go on sale. Doubly so as Virgin Trains ran a sale last week. However, there is no Northern timetable uploaded for these dates. I have therefore been forced to book for VT and XC services without knowing what times my connecting Northern trains will be at. What's more I have obviously been unable to book through from my local station, meaning that I will have to buy an additional ticket at higher cost than a through advance.

If the booking horizon were moving in, that would not concern me at all. But it isn't - lots of tickets are now going on sale for the May timetable despite very large parts of it still being missing. This is not good.

I havn't used the facility but Cross County do alow the changing of advance tickets bought on there website without charging an admin fee. No idea if its as easy as on Transpennie Express but their equivalent system works well. Link: https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/tickets/ticket-types/advance

 

[Starmill]

I have used that where possible but I obviously can't change my sale tickets.

Even if I were to use that it would not really help because:
- Changing the origin, destination or route of the tickets is not permitted (for some reason)
- Any difference in price is still charged. This is likely to be very significant. The whole reason for booking now is to get a sensible price