Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[northwichcat]

Its more likely now if the Flex are delivered they will stay till the governments selfpower trial on the line begins in 2020/21.

When did that change? Only a couple of months ago a DfT press release said 195s will replace 769s ahead of a potential (not confirmed) trial of alternative fueled trains in 2021/22.

 

[sannox]

Can anyone think of suitable routes for these units - 25 mile or less round trip with 10 minute or more turnaround times

East Kilbride and Barrhead locals? I mean they don't need them as Scotrail have other plans, but they would meet criteria and 60mph is not likely to be a problem due to stopping patterns. This does ignore that diagrams are inter worked with other Kilmarnock/Carlisle services however.

 

[Non Multi]

Looks like Sam Jessup has been brought in to restyle the interior and exterior for the Marston Vale line unit(s).

https://twitter.com/samjessupdesign/status/966412618067070977

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Looks like Sam Jessup has been brought in to restyle the interior and exterior for the Marston Vale line unit(s).

https://twitter.com/samjessupdesign/status/966412618067070977

Hmmm... that comment string is like an abridged version of this thread!

 

[class387]

Looks like Sam Jessup has been brought in to restyle the interior and exterior for the Marston Vale line unit(s).

https://twitter.com/samjessupdesign/status/966412618067070977

Looking forward to seeing the result.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looking forward to seeing the result.

Indeed. The Marston Vale *needs* these (well, it needs 3 x <40m long 2-car DMUs of near enough any kind, but it can have these ). And if they can just swap the diesel module out for a battery one once it's properly ready and tested, all the better...that'd be three fewer mucky DMUs needing to be got rid of.

I look forward to a ride.

Is Jessup the designer for the LNR "look" by the way? It's definitely not like a Stenning job, it has a slightly 1970s and more toned-down look about it than that.

(Though if he's responsible for the "no smoking" posters containing language that looks like it was written by a 5 year old, he needs a good kicking for that particular bit).

 

[xotGD]

Leeds - Lancaster might work for an electric/battery unit. Skipton - Carnforth on battery power, then a top-up from the wires before the return journey.

 

[class387]

Indeed. The Marston Vale *needs* these (well, it needs 3 x <40m long 2-car DMUs of near enough any kind, but it can have these ). And if they can just swap the diesel module out for a battery one once it's properly ready and tested, all the better...that'd be three fewer mucky DMUs needing to be got rid of.

I look forward to a ride.

Is Jessup the designer for the LNR "look" by the way? It's definitely not like a Stenning job, it has a slightly 1970s and more toned-down look about it than that.

(Though if he's responsible for the "no smoking" posters containing language that looks like it was written by a 5 year old, he needs a good kicking for that particular bit).

I do still need to ride the Marston Vale and am waiting for the 230s to do so, given what I've heard about the current DMUs. Above all I'm glad that not all of my favourite LU stock are being turned into tin cans, but the benefits for regular passengers is great too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do still need to ride the Marston Vale and am waiting for the 230s to do so, given what I've heard about the current DMUs.

The issue with it at present is reliability as there is no standby unit at Bletchley. The units themselves are decent enough so far as 150s and 153s go, indeed I think the 153 has a particularly nice interior (but still no legroom).

 

[Bantamzen]

Leeds - Lancaster might work for an electric/battery unit. Skipton - Carnforth on battery power, then a top-up from the wires before the return journey.

A specifically built variant maybe, but the 230 in-particular? Sorry but that wouldn't work in my opinion, too long a route for them with sections of line well in excess of 60mph. Leeds-Shipley-Skipton is going to see potentially more services, most 100mph capable (although they never get up that fast admittedly) with some freight still shoehorned on. Another slower moving unit is the last thing the route needs, especially as the Lancasters are semi-fast through West Yorkshire to Skipton.

 

[DarloRich]

Interesting that the ex underground trains are still not confirmed for the vale even though we know they are coming

I do still need to ride the Marston Vale and am waiting for the 230s to do so, given what I've heard about the current DMUs.

what have you heard?

The issue with it at present is reliability as there is no standby unit at Bletchley. The units themselves are decent enough so far as 150s and 153s go, indeed I think the 153 has a particularly nice interior (but still no legroom).

hmmmmmmmmmmm. the 153, even the redecorated ones, are not fine. They stink. The seats are rubbish.

Cursing myself: the reliability has improved recently. The 153 has burst for at least a fortnight.

 

[Bletchleyite]

hmmmmmmmmmmm. the 153, even the redecorated ones, are not fine. They stink. The seats are rubbish.

I don't find that they stink any more than any other 153 (there is a slightly distinctive 153 smell which I believe relates to the insulation around the exhaust which unlike all other Sprinters runs through the passenger cabin).

The seats are Chapmans which I find very good. The only problem is that there are about 8 too many. Take two rows out, one at each end, and respace, and they'd be fine.

 

[DarloRich]

I don't find that they stink any more than any other 153 (there is a slightly distinctive 153 smell which I believe relates to the insulation around the exhaust which unlike all other Sprinters runs through the passenger cabin).

The seats are Chapmans which I find very good. The only problem is that there are about 8 too many. Take two rows out, one at each end, and respace, and they'd be fine.

there is that dusty insulation smell but there is almost always a rotten toilet smell on the 153's. You are right about the seat spacing's but i guess they are arranged for maximum occupancy when in use on the WM services.

 

[class387]

what have you heard?

This:

hmmmmmmmmmmm. the 153, even the redecorated ones, are not fine. They stink. The seats are rubbish.

Cursing myself: the reliability has improved recently. The 153 has burst for at least a fortnight.

 

[Dstock7080]

Update from VivaRail on battery train:
http://vivarail.co.uk/battery-train-update/


New video from Geoff Marshall, LT Museum Friends visit to Vivarail:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Update from VivaRail on battery train:
http://vivarail.co.uk/battery-train-update/


New video from Geoff Marshall, LT Museum Friends visit to Vivarail:

Would I be thought as being "unkind-of-thought" if I thought the coaches that brought the visitors to the site looked externally far more modern in design than the external view of the Class 230 unit that they had come to see?

 

[MML]

A case of customers looking forward to a rail replacement bus service. Haha.

I hope the units used for the Marston Vale have an interior arrangement which doesn't look like an underground train.
Those higher backed seats in 'country' style, look far better than the longitudinal low back seats which were present on the D78.

It may look externally like an underground train, it may ride like an underground train - please don't make the interior look like one.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Would I be thought as being "unkind-of-thought" if I thought the coaches that brought the visitors to the site looked externally far more modern in design than the external view of the Class 230 unit that they had come to see?

...which in turn is not significantly more or less modern than this

which (as far as we all know) still has a long(?) term future on our Railway.

 

[D365]

It’s interesting to note that the “B230” is using a lot of technology (in particular the Valance batteries) that was first demonstrated on the 379013 trial.

It’ll be interesting to read up on the results that come when this unit is put into operation, especially when considering the D Stock is far lighter by design.

 

[47802]

...which in turn is not significantly more or less modern than this

which (as far as we all know) still has a long(?) term future on our Railway.

But your basically spending a lot of money to turn into something roughly the equivalent of a 150 which is hardly state of the art in terms of modern day passenger environment, and potentially still has less flexibility to an operator in terms of lower top speed and no compatibility with the existing fleet something which even Railbuses have.

The Battery unit well I guess the D-train being light is advantageous to the battery train, but with various limitations I don't a great deal of use for it on the Network but maybe I will be proved wrong, also personally I think if your going to come up with a new technology train you want it to look like its from this century not the 1980's.

 

[D365]

The Battery unit well I guess the D-train being light is advantageous to the battery train, but with various limitations I don't a great deal of use for it on the Network but maybe I will be proved wrong, also personally I think if your going to come up with a new technology train you want it to look like its from this century not the 1980's.

What limitations are you thinking? And how is that any different to converting the 319s?

If Porterbrook weren’t facing issues with the diesel conversion I might have touted a similar 319 conversion project but using battery rafts in place of the diesel generators.

 

[Harpers Tate]

.....lower top speed

which, despite the constant mention of this as a significant matter, is something like 80% irrelevant

and no compatibility with the existing fleet .....

which is also true of all the new stuff coming along, isn't it? In which case that, too would seem to be irrelevant.

 

[47802]

which, despite the constant mention of this as a significant matter, is something like 80% irrelevantwhich is also true of all the new stuff coming along, isn't it? In which case that, too would seem to be irrelevant.

Yes OK compatibility may be an issue with other new stuff but I doubt its irrelevant, along with the low top speed, if they were then perhaps Northern Rail might be getting some D-trains instead of cascaded 150's but they are not, and the 150's give them a more flexible train.

 

[47802]

What limitations are you thinking? And how is that any different to converting the 319s?

If Porterbrook weren’t facing issues with the diesel conversion I might have touted a similar 319 conversion project but using battery rafts in place of the diesel generators.

Depends how your going to use it, a pure battery train on a branch maybe, charging time layover? a 3rd Rail/Battery Bi-mode maybe 60mph might be an issue on some lines, 25kv/Battery Bi-mode would seem unlikely, sticking a pantograph on the Roof tricky and costly 60mph trundling up the West Coast to Windermere for instance I'm sure Network Rail would love that.

 

[D365]

... and the 150's give them a more flexible train.

Three of the 150s coming to Northern are by virtue of the 230s being introduced to WMT, don’t forget

Depends how your going to use it, a pure battery train on a branch maybe, charging time layover? a 3rd Rail/Battery Bi-mode maybe 60mph might be an issue on some lines, 25kv/Battery Bi-mode would seem unlikely, sticking a pantograph on the Roof tricky and costly 60mph trundling up the West Coast to Windermere for instance I'm sure Network Rail would love that.

It’s definitely not an alternative to the 769, that I can grant. I imagine the 25kV charging facility will be only for use at low speeds; in fact I wouldn’t be surprised to see the “Bletchford” fleet be converted to battery operation.

 

[westcoaster]

Update from VivaRail on battery train:
http://vivarail.co.uk/battery-train-update/


New video from Geoff Marshall, LT Museum Friends visit to Vivarail:

Interesting video, I spy a very rare spare 158 coach around the 6/7 minute mark.

 

[Dstock7080]

Interesting video, I spy a very rare spare 158 coach around the 6/7 minute mark.

Yes, Regional Railways 158 gutted shell.
Other items on site were:
ex- Manchester Metrolink Stock
ex- Midland Metro Stock
ex- ThamesLink 319s
unbranded bubble-car DMUs
over 200 D Stock DM and T cars

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Interesting video, I spy a very rare spare 158 coach around the 6/7 minute mark.

Careful, you'll be getting Geoff in trouble!

 

[Rail Blues]

Would I be thought as being "unkind-of-thought" if I thought the coaches that brought the visitors to the site looked externally far more modern in design than the external view of the Class 230 unit that they had come to see?

No, just utterly predictable and wearing in the extreme.

As you well know, the life cycle of a coach and of a train can't be compared, with the former being considerably shorter, about 12 years, so we have 40 year old class 43s on the East Coast mainline buy National Express don't run 40 year old coaches down the A1, as such coaches will inevitably look more modern than most trains.

But why miss any chance to aim another dig at a project you've set your face against from day one.

 

[D60]

Just noticed there's a bit better view of the Regional Railways Sprinter Express liveried vehicle visible in the near background in the Robert Llewellyn Fully Charged Show report on the battery D-train, uploaded onto Youtube on 29Nov'17.

Cannot share the link on this phone... Without going back to check, has this vid been shared on here already yet?

Quite an informative video, bit more so than the Geoff Marshall one... Shows the battery rafts beneath a test-bed vehicle, and a Vivarail engineer bloke suggesting that the battery packs can deliver more power than the diesel gensets that they are fully interchangeable with..

And a suggestion that the battery unit development and trial is a response to the direction that the rail market is currently perceived to be heading... (Am I right in thinking that Vivarail have received DfT development funding for this work?)

(Totally off-topic, but does anyone know the story with the Sprinter Express vehicle? I have some very vague recollection of the existence of such a vehicle but can't remember anything meaningful..!?)