Could a Sleeper service run to Wick?

[Class 170101]

If they don't specify an Aberdeen call then they can go either way between Inverness and Perth.
Even overnight coaches would struggle.

Still impacts on Inverness Station maintenance access.

 

[najaB]

Still impacts on Inverness Station maintenance access.

I'm not sure that that is a deal breaker - you're only talking about a handful of nights a year at most. So they can cancel the sleeper and put the passenger in a taxi.

 

[class26]

Rail Magazine has an item on it - suggests it would generate 29,000 trips, with 8,500 from Caithness and Orkney and 20,500 from Inverness. So in reality its just reinstating the Inverness sleeper which was a dead duck in BR days with around a dozen passengers per train traveling to destinations north of Inverness. Why is so much money wasted on fantasy schemes?

Yes but I had read somewhere that the intention is to do the run alternate days so Sunday night southbound, Monday night northbound etc If that is the case this would make the average loadings a tad better and only require one set of stock rather than two.

 

[najaB]

If that is the case this would make the average loadings a tad better and only require one set of stock rather than two.

But also make it half as attractive a service.

 

[Bald Rick]

Even overnight coaches would struggle.

Size of vehicle was not specified. A taxi would suffice on most nights. In fact that gives me an idea.

I'll bid for the Wick sleeper franchise, and offer a door to door service for passengers between the central belt, Inverness and Caithness. All services mandatory reservations. I'll only want £2m a year subsidy. Any forum members want to invest? The company name will be McÜber.

I'm not sure that that is a deal breaker - you're only talking about a handful of nights a year at most.

A big handful to be fair.

 

[BRX]

I'll bid for the Wick sleeper franchise, and offer a door to door service for passengers between the central belt, Inverness and Caithness. All services mandatory reservations. I'll only want £2m a year subsidy. Any forum members want to invest? The company name will be McÜber.

You might have overlooked a crucial feature of a "sleeper" service.

 

[najaB]

You might have overlooked a crucial feature of a "sleeper" service.

You can get a decent bed in of one of these:

 

[Class 170101]

I dread to think how good the nights sleep will be in one of those given the state of our roads - potholes galore.

 

[najaB]

I dread to think how good the nights sleep will be in one of those given the state of our roads - potholes galore.

Quite nice since most of the night would be spent parked. It's not that long a journey by road.

 

[Altnabreac]

Quite nice since most of the night would be spent parked. It's not that long a journey by road.

With a 7pm departure from Wick the taxi could be in Edinburgh by midnight and check you in to a Premier Inn.

 

[Bald Rick]

With a 7pm departure from Wick the taxi could be in Edinburgh by midnight and check you in to a Premier Inn.

Exactly! And with the A9 dualled south of Inverness by then, it will be nice and smooth most of the way.

 

[deltic]

If the Wick sleeper could connect with the 05.40 Edinburgh-London flyer, once could do Wick-London with one easy change in about 14 hours, and say a special through fare valid on the 05.40 flyer, could make a decent proposition. And going back north a decent connection off a London-Edinburgh fast train, could do it in about 14hrs again, and again with decent through fares, would get quite a bit of interest, say leave London 6pm and be in Wick etc about 8am.

Quite a bit of interest from whom?

 

[cambsy]

Interst from North of Scotland passengers, as give different journey option, leave Inverness etc later, faster overal journey to London, as Edinburgh-London quick, just think could be Interesting, and cheaper than the Highlander when mk5 in use.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Quite a bit of interest from whom?

Business travel ? , leisure travel ? (all year round)

Put it this way , if I was up for a 14 our journey , for leisure by train , i would be looking at Berlin or Madrid.

Even with free national rail travel , I have never been north of Dingwall , and that was 30 years ago. Maybe I ought to check out this journey of discovery.

 

[BRX]

I don't see that it would be a better proposition than wick-inverness and then sleeper from inverness.

Getting woken up at 5am doesn't sound ideal.

And for leisure travellers surely it would be more attractive to do the Wick-Inverness portion in daylight, than Edinburgh-London

 

[backontrack]

As much as the idea of a 'Far North Sleeper' is incredibly unlikely to come to fruition, I've worked out what I think could be its rough timetable.

This is in the incredibly unlikely event of considerable improvements; ie Dornoch Rail Link, cheap station reopenings, Georgemas chord, loops at Lentran/Evanton/Kinbrace.

Boarding begins at 20:00
Glasgow Queen Street High Level dep 20:30
Cumbernauld 20:45
Falkirk Grahamston 21:00
Edinburgh Waverley arr 21:30
Edinburgh Waverley dep 21:35
Edinburgh Haymarket 21:30
Edinburgh Gateway 21:40
Kirkcaldy 22:05
Leuchars 22:30
Dundee 22:40
Carnoustie 22:50
Arbroath 23:00
Aberdeen 23:45
Dyce 23:55
Elgin 01:15
Nairn 01:40
Dalcross 01:50
Inverness arr 02:00
Inverness dep 02:30
Kirkhill 02x40
Beauly 02x45
Muir of Ord 02x50
Conon Bridge 03x00
Dingwall 03:05
Evanton 03x15
Alness 03:20
Invergordon 03:25
Fearn 03x40
Tain 03:50
Dornoch 04:05
Embo 04x20
Golspie 04:35
Brora 04:45
Helmsdale 05:05
Kinbrace 05x30
Forsinard 05x40
Halkirk 06x10
Wick 06:30
Georgemas 06x50
Thurso 07:00
Cabins vacated by 07:30

 

[Scotrail84]

As much as the idea of a 'Far North Sleeper' is incredibly unlikely to come to fruition, I've worked out what I think could be its rough timetable.

This is in the incredibly unlikely event of considerable improvements; ie DORLAG, cheap station reopenings, Georgemas chord, loops at Lentran/Evanton/Kinbrace.

Boarding begins at 20:00
Glasgow Queen Street High Level dep 20:30
Cumbernauld 20:45
Falkirk Grahamston 21:00
Edinburgh Waverley arr 21:30
Edinburgh Waverley dep 21:35
Edinburgh Haymarket 21:30
Edinburgh Gateway 21:40
Kirkcaldy 22:05
Leuchars 22:30
Dundee 22:40
Carnoustie 22:50
Arbroath 23:00
Aberdeen 23:45
Dyce 23:55
Elgin 01:15
Nairn 01:40
Dalcross 01:50
Inverness arr 02:00
Inverness dep 02:30
Kirkhill 02x40
Beauly 02x45
Muir of Ord 02x50
Conon Bridge 03x00
Dingwall 03:05
Evanton 03x15
Alness 03:20
Invergordon 03:25
Fearn 03x40
Tain 03:50
Dornoch 04:05
Embo 04x20
Golspie 04:35
Brora 04:45
Helmsdale 05:05
Kinbrace 05x30
Forsinard 05x40
Halkirk 06x10
Wick 06:30
Georgemas 06x50
Thurso 07:00
Cabins vacated by 07:30

If it does happen (highly unlikely) you can scratch of at least 95% of the stations you've got down as stops.

If it was to run then the stop below are the likely station the train would call

Wick/Thurso
Georgmas Jn
Tain
Invergordon
Dingwall
Inverness
Edinburgh/Glasgow.

 

[adrock1976]

As much as the idea of a 'Far North Sleeper' is incredibly unlikely to come to fruition, I've worked out what I think could be its rough timetable.

This is in the incredibly unlikely event of considerable improvements; ie DORLAG, cheap station reopenings, Georgemas chord, loops at Lentran/Evanton/Kinbrace.

Boarding begins at 20:00
Glasgow Queen Street High Level dep 20:30
Cumbernauld 20:45
Falkirk Grahamston 21:00
Edinburgh Waverley arr 21:30
Edinburgh Waverley dep 21:35
Edinburgh Haymarket 21:30
Edinburgh Gateway 21:40
Kirkcaldy 22:05
Leuchars 22:30
Dundee 22:40
Carnoustie 22:50
Arbroath 23:00
Aberdeen 23:45
Dyce 23:55
Elgin 01:15
Nairn 01:40
Dalcross 01:50
Inverness arr 02:00
Inverness dep 02:30
Kirkhill 02x40
Beauly 02x45
Muir of Ord 02x50
Conon Bridge 03x00
Dingwall 03:05
Evanton 03x15
Alness 03:20
Invergordon 03:25
Fearn 03x40
Tain 03:50
Dornoch 04:05
Embo 04x20
Golspie 04:35
Brora 04:45
Helmsdale 05:05
Kinbrace 05x30
Forsinard 05x40
Halkirk 06x10
Wick 06:30
Georgemas 06x50
Thurso 07:00
Cabins vacated by 07:30

Could it be explained what on earth "DORLAG" means please?

It is forum rules not to use abbreviations or acronyms without first saying what they mean.

 

[Esker-pades]

As much as the idea of a 'Far North Sleeper' is incredibly unlikely to come to fruition, I've worked out what I think could be its rough timetable.

This is in the incredibly unlikely event of considerable improvements; ie DORLAG, cheap station reopenings, Georgemas chord, loops at Lentran/Evanton/Kinbrace.

Boarding begins at 20:00
Glasgow Queen Street High Level dep 20:30
Cumbernauld 20:45
Falkirk Grahamston 21:00
Edinburgh Waverley arr 21:30
Edinburgh Waverley dep 21:35
Edinburgh Haymarket 21:30
Edinburgh Gateway 21:40
Kirkcaldy 22:05
Leuchars 22:30
Dundee 22:40
Carnoustie 22:50
Arbroath 23:00
Aberdeen 23:45
Dyce 23:55
Elgin 01:15
Nairn 01:40
Dalcross 01:50
Inverness arr 02:00
Inverness dep 02:30
Kirkhill 02x40
Beauly 02x45
Muir of Ord 02x50
Conon Bridge 03x00
Dingwall 03:05
Evanton 03x15
Alness 03:20
Invergordon 03:25
Fearn 03x40
Tain 03:50
Dornoch 04:05
Embo 04x20
Golspie 04:35
Brora 04:45
Helmsdale 05:05
Kinbrace 05x30
Forsinard 05x40
Halkirk 06x10
Wick 06:30
Georgemas 06x50
Thurso 07:00
Cabins vacated by 07:30

See, I'd run it via the Highland Main Line.

 

[47271]

Could it be explained what on earth "DORLAG" means please?

It is forum rules not to use abbreviations or acronyms without first saying what they mean.

Stops are listed for Dornoch and Embo, so it's a Dornoch Firth crossing route I think.

 

[cf111]

If it does happen (highly unlikely) you can scratch of at least 95% of the stations you've got down as stops.

If it was to run then the stop below are the likely station the train would call

Wick/Thurso
Georgmas Jn
Tain
Invergordon
Dingwall
Inverness
Edinburgh/Glasgow.

In the unlikely event of it ever running, the train would have to stop at Muir of Ord, Lairg, Brora, Helmsdale and Forsinard to exchange radio tokens so it might be easy enough to open the doors too.

I can see the the 0230 from Inverness being a "lively" experience in the seated coach on a Saturday morning

 

[Scotrail84]

In the unlikely event of it ever running, the train would have to stop at Muir of Ord, Lairg, Brora, Helmsdale and Forsinard to exchange radio tokens so it might be easy enough to open the doors too.

I can see the the 0230 from Inverness being a "lively" experience in the seated coach on a Saturday morning

There are so may cons that outweigh the pros for this service, the main one is it wouldn't make money.

 

[cf111]

There are so may cons that outweigh the pros for this service, the main one is it wouldn't make money.

Yes, I had to check the date wasn't April 1st when it was first being mooted. I doubt there is any real traction behind it but the fact it wasn't laughed out and never mentioned again really does surprise me.

 

[backontrack]

Could it be explained what on earth "DORLAG" means please?

It is forum rules not to use abbreviations or acronyms without first saying what they mean.

Oh yes, sorry. Dornoch Rail Link Action Group.

 

[swaldman]

All that's needed at present is to fix the timetable so that one can actually transfer from the Euston sleeper to the Far North Line without waiting hours in Inverness - which would then allow you to reach Thurso in time for the lunchtime ferry to Stromness, in the rare parts of the year when there is still a lunchtime ferry. Last time i tried this (admittedly some years back - haven't checked if still the case) the highland CS arrival just missed the morning Far North departure, and ends up adding a needless half day to the London -> Orkney journey.

Oh, and also for the CS to be cheap enough to ever actually use again

 

[Far north 37]

There are so may cons that outweigh the pros for this service, the main one is it wouldn't make money.

Totally agree a late night sleeper service from the north highlands would never reach full capacity especially in the winter months.

 

[najaB]

All that's needed at present is to fix the timetable so that one can actually transfer from the Euston sleeper to the Far North Line without waiting hours in Inverness...

Get me a Lentran Loop and it'll happen. The issue is that the long single line section to Muir of Ord significantly constrains what changes can be made to the FNL timetable.

 

[cf111]

All that's needed at present is to fix the timetable so that one can actually transfer from the Euston sleeper to the Far North Line without waiting hours in Inverness - which would then allow you to reach Thurso in time for the lunchtime ferry to Stromness, in the rare parts of the year when there is still a lunchtime ferry. Last time i tried this (admittedly some years back - haven't checked if still the case) the highland CS arrival just missed the morning Far North departure, and ends up adding a needless half day to the London -> Orkney journey.

Oh, and also for the CS to be cheap enough to ever actually use again

Sleeper arrives Inverness 0841, first train north departs 0700. The next departure to Wick is at 1041 arriving in Thurso at 1423 and the first Kyle train departs at 0855.

The next Scrabster-Stromness sailing is the 1900 departure in both the summer and the winter timetables, so it's not particularly well integrated. There isn't much to do in Thurso until 1830 when you have to be down at Scrabster unless you fancy an over-priced late lunch or early dinner at the Y-Not...

 

[Far north 37]

Get me a Lentran Loop and it'll happen. The issue is that the long single line section to Muir of Ord significantly constrains what changes can be made to the FNL timetable.

Dont think any loops would make a difference the sleeper would run after all service trains are berthed for the night

 

[backontrack]

Dont think any loops would make a difference the sleeper would run after all service trains are berthed for the night

It is crucial that services are improved on the line by the addition of a dynamic loop at Lentran, irrespective of whether the sleeper idea ever comes to fruition.