The difference is that it's ONE train from ONE destination only (and arriving conveniently late in the day, when the outbound service is finishing).
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Amsterdam Eurostar
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The difference is that it's ONE train from ONE destination only (and arriving conveniently late in the day, when the outbound service is finishing).
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The starting point for this was your observation of how clumsy the interim process is proving at Brussels. It certainly sounds complicated and staff-heavy.
I’m still not sure what you are proposing though.
We’ve established - Disney service - that St Pancras can handle immigration. Nobody is disputing that.
So, on the Amsterdam-London service, that leaves security screening.
Are you saying there shouldn’t be any?
AlexNL
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Which could also be done in Amsterdam and Rotterdam.
33Hz
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In an ideal world, yes, but as I have said up thread twice now the Spanish manage it with a wheeled-out x-ray machine and metal detector arch and get everyone through in a few minutes.
Yes.
SHD
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No, there is an exit immigration control by the French Police aux Frontières at Marne-la-Vallée.
Customs checks by HMRC have always been performed in London, irrespective of the origin of trains - this is not something special to Disney runs.
More information: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmhaff/71/71we05.htm
Once again, the rules for the immigration and border controls are governed by treaties or agreements between nations.
DB challenged rules related to fire safety and train characteristics, but not immigration or border control provisions.
In these matters, the inflexible party is - and has always been - HMG. I daresay that in the current atmosphere of total chaos regarding Brexit, amending these protocols will be the last thing on the minds of the Home Office.
Brussels-Lille yes,
Brussels-Calais no.
But these "Schengen" passengers travel under very specific arrangements.
In the past, Eurostar sold Paris-Calais tickets - and after 2002, passengers on these services had to comply with all requirements for entry into the UK. Kafkaesque don't you think?
BahrainLad
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Notwithstanding the fact the Channel Tunnel is a far higher profile target (and a much for important economic asset) than some random tunnel in the Alps, hence the security (and if you do security pre-departure you might as well do immigration as well to reduce end to end journey times), I very much doubt HMG would want illegal immigrants from the continent identified only once they’d reached U.K. soil...nor Eurostar the cost of returning them (as airlines are liable for.)
SHD
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This is why HMG pushed very hard in the late 1990s for juxtaposed controls, which were established by the following protocol:
http://treaties.fco.gov.uk/docs/fullnames/pdf/2002/TS0033.pdf
33Hz - good luck trying to amend them.
citycat
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At 17:40 today, I was driving my artic truck along the A16 motorway from Rotterdam to Antwerp. I glanced to my right to enjoy the sunset, and then glanced to my left towards the HSL Zuid which runs along side the motorway at that point. I was promptly overtaken by Eurostar heading south.
It looked quite impressive with its bodywork glinting in the setting sun. I guess they were testing again today. It was nice to see it in Holland. Thalys passed me at speed shortly after heading north. It looks qute dated now next to the e320.
It looked quite impressive with its bodywork glinting in the setting sun. I guess they were testing again today. It was nice to see it in Holland. Thalys passed me at speed shortly after heading north. It looks qute dated now next to the e320.
Quite. If you get the Javelin from Ashford to St Pancras, you can travel at up to 250km/h and through 22km of tunnels. If you travel from Ashford to Calais, you'll won't travel much above 250km/h and through about 50km of tunnels, most of which at 160km/h.
I must admit it does frustrate me, as does the border control arrangements. IMHO it should be the same as air travel for border control: an ID check at the boarding station (with secure platforms), and immigration / border control at St P (/Ebbsfleet / Ashford). No need for bag screening / metal detectors etc. You don't get it when going through the tunnel in your car.
In fact I'd go further and say no border checks at all, like almost all the rest of Europe appears to manage with. But most of my countrymen disagree.
I wouldn't say most, more like 4% more of the people who voted.
Ah ok, so there's at least the logistical potential for Brussels>London ES passengers to board without UK border control on departure.
Do the Brussels-Lille passengers board with security screening? Or is it hop-on like Thalys/TGV/etc (we need a collective Schengen area HST term
)
SHD
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Ah ok, so there's at least the logistical potential for Brussels>London ES passengers to board without UK border control on departure.
Do the Brussels-Lille passengers board with security screening? Or is it hop-on like Thalys/TGV/etc (we need a collective Schengen area HST term
I’m afraid that the logical potential will crash - again! - on the protocol between HMG and the Belgian government regarding immigration controls for Brussels. Please read it, especially article 7.
In English:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/281345/8807.pdf
In French:
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/cgi_loi/change_lg.pl?language=fr&la=F&cn=2013121820&table_name=loi
33Hz
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The used to be screened, but a separate boarding area and a locked off coach for them on the train was introduced recently.
SHD
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It is in force, I do not know why this appears on the PDF - probably because this is the version that was presented to Parliament.
Don't trust me? Perhaps you will trust the FCO then: http://treaties.fco.gov.uk/treaties/treatyrecord.htm?tid=14623 and http://treaties.fco.gov.uk/docs/pdf/2016/TS0032.pdf
Please read it, especially Article 7.
Don't trust me? Perhaps you will trust the FCO then: http://treaties.fco.gov.uk/treaties/treatyrecord.htm?tid=14623 and http://treaties.fco.gov.uk/docs/pdf/2016/TS0032.pdf
Please read it, especially Article 7.
So @33Hz it sounds like - hypothetically - as an interim there could be pre clearance. Some juggling at Brussels still, to keep the fully cleared passengers segregated from partially cleared. The answer above suggests Brussels could have done this.
What happened at Midi? Was it seen as a fault, or a problem not worth fixing?
What happened at Midi? Was it seen as a fault, or a problem not worth fixing?
backontrack
Established Member
Does anyone else think that they should be stopping in Antwerp?
I'd probably use it, I like Antwerp. Would the Eurostar services be avoiding the station or passing through slowly?
backontrack
Established Member
Th
They are stopping northbound iirc? Frankly for Antwerp the Any Belgian Station option gives far more choice.
Yeah, I've used one of those before actually. Thalys from Amsterdam to Antwerp then an any stations to Brussels on a regular inter city service and the Eurostar service back to London.
StephenHunter
Established Member
What's Thalys like compared to Eurostar?
I really enjoyed the journey on Thalys, waiting at the station at Schipol it was really easy to see the layout of your train (before it even arrived) but that is the same for all trains at Schipol now I think and is not so much down to Thalys. Our train was one of the newer units and it looked very smart as it pulled in to the station. There seemed to be staff at each door for boarding but it was pretty effortless for an international train. On board the seats were very comfortable and gave a good view out of the window. We only got it as far as Antwerp Central and leaving the train was amazing as Antwerp Centraal is an amazing station, one of my favourites in the world, it is just bizarre is all I can say. The Eurostar service from Brussels Midi to St Pancras was a bit more of a pain in the bum with having to hang around for ages and clear security and passport control. The departure area at midi isn't somewhere I would describe as pleasant in any way, that isn't really the fault of the train itself of course though. The train itself looked a bit more dated both inside and out than the Thalys but to be fair it was a few years older and they are being replaced. Not much between them really, both are highly competent European High Speed Trains and Eurostar was only let down by the bureaucracy of the UK which leaves you penned in a cave before getting on the train. It is of course amazing flying along the tracks heading towards 200mph overtaking cars on the motorway like they aren't moving, that stands for both of them. The ticket prices on both were a bargain.
As has been said plenty of times before on this forum - When a plane arrives at a UK airport, all of the passengers travel documents and right of entry into the UK have already been screened by the airline before getting on the plane. In a sterile environment. No-one arrives in the UK without this screening. The airlines are very careful about this, as they incur huge financial liabilities, and possible suspension of flying rights if too many breaches. If it were practical space wise for border checks to be carried out at St Pancras arrivals (which is in some doubt I think), this would not absolve Eurostar from having sterile platforms etc at foreign stations in order to ensure that no-one arrives in London without proper and valid travel documents.
No amount of lobbying by Eurostar is going to move HMG to accepting unscreened arrivals on UK soil. It doesn't happen at any airport and it won't happen at St Pancras!
TheSeeker
Member
The Man in Seat 61 says :-
"
Retweeted Chris Jackson (@cmajrail):
Early doors at St Pancras. The first guests are gathering for the inaugural @Eurostar train to Amsterdam. Tickets on sale today, public services from April 4. https://t.co/JrgjchoaPC"
MisterT
Member
The inaugural train is running behind the train that I'm driving at the moment 
As you can see, we're both running right on schedule
As you can see, we're both running right on schedule
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