The VTEC Aberdeen - Leeds service regularly uses part of this route as well.
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Pontefract Baghill & the Dearne Valley - is there any future?
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You have to travel on this line to appreciate the sorry state of affairs. I am not aware of any major subsidence issues currently- the slow journey times seem mainly due to timetabling. Over the part of the route not shared with other services (i.e. Moorthorpe-Sherburn) there seem to be hardly any passengers.
On my last journey, last year, the first southbound train carried approx. 6 or 7 passengers when it arrived at Pontefract where a couple joined and a couple alighted. The train then sat for 6 minutes waiting departure time. It ran with this light load to Moorthorpe where it again sat for 6 minutes waiting departure time. At subsequent stations to Sheffield more passengers joined but it could be argued they could have used the other services using the line.
The returning northbound train had a similar load into Pontefract and similar joiners/alighters. At Sherburn the lady guard came round the train and told us not to worry that the train was standing at the platform (where no-one joined or alighted) as it wasn’t booked to depart for 7 minutes.
I haven’t used the service this year but the timetabling issue still seems to exist Thus looking at Realtime trains for 13 February the equivalent southbound train sat 7 minutes at Pontefract and 6 at Moorthorpe. The Northbound return recovered 2 minutes lateness between Pontefract and Sherburn, then sat for 4 minutes at Sherburn.
Mention is made of use of the line by freight. However again looking at Realtime trains for 13 February only 10 freight trains used the route and these were all in night time hours when presumably paths might be found on alternative routes.
As stated by others, you can travel from York to Sheffield by the faster, more frequent and more comfortable Cross-country service. All the communities on the route can access the national network by using other frequent services and changing at the likes of Leeds Doncaster or Sheffield. The only unique contribution made by the route (providing a quicker link Moorthorpe-Pontefract-Sherburn) doesn’t seem to have sufficient users to make it worthwhile. The first question is- is the low usage because there is no market, or because the service is so poor, or a combination? The next question is if you had some spare resource would augmenting this service be a better use than other alternatives. Thus Barnsley and Castleford don’t have a through service to York but they have bigger populations and bigger potential. Passengers from Pontefract can access Castleford easily. Perhaps the service should be rerouted to serve Barnsley and Castleford (as suggested by Billio and others above).
I am surprised no-one has brought up the possibility of running a local service on the Knottingley-Doncaster line. This would offer much faster journeys from Castleford/Pontefract to Doncaster and hence London and could be combined with the clear need (mentioned by johntea above) for an augmented Leeds-Castleford/Pontefract service. Would seem to be much more use than the proposed extending of the Pontefract-Wakefield service to run to Leeds via Westgate
On my last journey, last year, the first southbound train carried approx. 6 or 7 passengers when it arrived at Pontefract where a couple joined and a couple alighted. The train then sat for 6 minutes waiting departure time. It ran with this light load to Moorthorpe where it again sat for 6 minutes waiting departure time. At subsequent stations to Sheffield more passengers joined but it could be argued they could have used the other services using the line.
The returning northbound train had a similar load into Pontefract and similar joiners/alighters. At Sherburn the lady guard came round the train and told us not to worry that the train was standing at the platform (where no-one joined or alighted) as it wasn’t booked to depart for 7 minutes.
I haven’t used the service this year but the timetabling issue still seems to exist Thus looking at Realtime trains for 13 February the equivalent southbound train sat 7 minutes at Pontefract and 6 at Moorthorpe. The Northbound return recovered 2 minutes lateness between Pontefract and Sherburn, then sat for 4 minutes at Sherburn.
Mention is made of use of the line by freight. However again looking at Realtime trains for 13 February only 10 freight trains used the route and these were all in night time hours when presumably paths might be found on alternative routes.
As stated by others, you can travel from York to Sheffield by the faster, more frequent and more comfortable Cross-country service. All the communities on the route can access the national network by using other frequent services and changing at the likes of Leeds Doncaster or Sheffield. The only unique contribution made by the route (providing a quicker link Moorthorpe-Pontefract-Sherburn) doesn’t seem to have sufficient users to make it worthwhile. The first question is- is the low usage because there is no market, or because the service is so poor, or a combination? The next question is if you had some spare resource would augmenting this service be a better use than other alternatives. Thus Barnsley and Castleford don’t have a through service to York but they have bigger populations and bigger potential. Passengers from Pontefract can access Castleford easily. Perhaps the service should be rerouted to serve Barnsley and Castleford (as suggested by Billio and others above).
I am surprised no-one has brought up the possibility of running a local service on the Knottingley-Doncaster line. This would offer much faster journeys from Castleford/Pontefract to Doncaster and hence London and could be combined with the clear need (mentioned by johntea above) for an augmented Leeds-Castleford/Pontefract service. Would seem to be much more use than the proposed extending of the Pontefract-Wakefield service to run to Leeds via Westgate
backontrack
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Hmm.
1tph Leeds-Woodlesford-Castleford-Glasshoughton-Pontefract Monkhill-Knottingley-Norton-Askern-Doncaster?
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
The Askern line doesn't pass the platforms at Knottingley though, does it?
You perhaps didn't notice that I was replying to a specific query about a diverted trains on a specific day.
Ive not observed VTEC Aberdeen to Leeds going that was for some time now, seems more usual to go through to Doncaster and reverse if the Garforth route isn't available. That said even if it did divert this was it would use a vanishingly small amount of the line which is the topic of this thread.
Spot on. Without Knottingley,Norton and Askern the Pontefract-Doncaster journey time would be comparable with Pontefract- Wakefield but much more use giving much better access to the south(also from Castleford to the south).
xotGD
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Grand Central offer some direct journey opportunities between Pontefract and Doncaster. Does anyone know how many passengers use the service for such local trips?
Class 170101
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Shortage of DMUs due to non-electrification of the Bolton line? So reduce the losses just don't implement a service that is yet to start maybe?
backontrack
Established Member
Thanks
If I remember correctly, the best net schedule times on 10 February via Pontefract shewn in Realtime Trains (but no longer accessible) were 43 minutes both ways, and at least one train southbound (1O86 - I havne't got the full details, but I think a Newcastle to Bournemouth) made it in 43 minutes. The best I found on a quick check northbound was 45 minutes (1E82).
Via Doncaster the WTT net times appear to be 21½ minutes York to Doncaster (the very slow approach to platform 4) and then 19½ minutes Doncaster to Sheffield. Northbound it's 18 minutes Sheffield to Doncaster and 18½ minutes Doncaster to York — which suggests a net best time of 40 minutes including a stop at Doncaster. I have actually known 40 minutes non-stop via Doncaster. As Yorkie says, the Doncaster route easily wins and has the advantage of allowing a large town and major connecting centre to be served. I doubt if even heavy investment in the Pontefract line could get it up to what is already possible via Doncaster.
xotGD
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I suppose there is the question of whether the paths between York and Doncaster could be better used by other services, such as more York - KX semifasts?
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