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Electrifcation - it's on!

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Metroland

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The Government is tomorrow (Thursday July 22) expected to confirm two major electrification schemes, with decisions on other lines due later in the year.

With the weekly Cabinet meeting being held in Cardiff, Prime Minister Gordon Brown will announce that the Great Western main line will be electrified from London Paddington to Swansea, improving connections from the capital to South Wales.

That project will include Oxford and Newbury, while the Manchester to Liverpool line will also be electrified.

The announcements will be seen as a major victory for the new transport secretary Lord Adonis, who is credited with campaigning for major Government investment in the railway network, through electrification and high speed rail.

As Railnews has reported, electrification of the Great Western main line was a central feature of a new long-term strategy proposed by Network Rail in May.

In an introduction to the consultation document, chief executive Ian Coucher said: “Our analysis shows the long-term benefits of electrifying key parts of the network, in terms of both reducing its ongoing cost to the country and improving its environmental performance, are significant.”

The other key electrification identified in the document is the Midland main line to Nottingham, Derby and Sheffield, and the Government will make a decision on that project later in the year, along with routes between Manchester and Preston and Liverpool and Preston.

However the positive outcome for the Great Western main line and Manchester to Liverpool will lead to optimism that the further electrifications will also be agreed.

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/westminster-watch/2009/07/22-brown-electrify-major-scheme.html

My mission as Transport Secretary is to modernise Britain's railways and public transport to the best European standards.

The country that invented the railways ought to be a 21st-century leader in rail both as a green technology and as a means of public transport joined up consistently with facilities for cars, buses and bikes, station by station. We should also be forging ahead with high-speed rail, and that is why we are developing a plan for a north-south line.

As I saw on my recent national rail tour, we now have a largely modern and punctual train fleet, carrying record passenger numbers.

But capacity and infrastructure lag behind, and station facilities are often poor. The problems are not always expensive to tackle. How is it that all of London’s rail terminals put together have cycle parking for only a quarter as many bikes as the small Dutch city of Leiden?

Failings like this need to be put right fast. Our continental friends do not take to their bikes and trains because it is in their genes. It is because of their superior facilities and organisation. Underlying this is a determination to give people better choices than simply to drive everywhere.

Big gaps in the infrastructure are more challenging, but today marks a farther advance with the Government’s £1.1 billion electrification programme. Work to electrify the Great Western Main Line from London to South Wales and the intercity line from Manchester to Liverpool will begin immediately. Over the coming months we will look at the case for further main-line electrification, including the Midland Main Line from London to Sheffield.

The Great Western electrification will bring electric intercity trains into Paddington station and along Brunel’s classic railway for the first time. The eight-year project will extend the running of electric trains to Reading, Bristol and through the Severn Tunnel to Cardiff and Swansea, and will include commuter lines to Oxford and Newbury.

The Liverpool to Manchester line — the world’s first intercity railway, a remarkable feat of early Victorian engineering on which Stephenson’s Rocket triumphed in the Rainhill locomotive trials of 1829 — is another key route, and its electrification over the next four years will also make it possible to run through-electric trains from Manchester to Glasgow and Edinburgh.

This programme addresses the chronic underinvestment in electrification in the postwar decades, after catch-up investment in other basic infrastructure, including the West Coast Main Line from London to Birmingham, Manchester and Glasgow.

As long ago as 1955, Winston Churchill’s last Government hailed rail electrification as “the ideal, since it meets the requirements of reliability, good acceleration, cleanliness and economy in operation”. Yet while most of Europe moved rapidly to electrify their main line networks, Britain lagged behind. Only 33 per cent of the British rail network is electrified, compared to 100 per cent in Switzerland, 73 per cent in the Netherlands, 69 per cent in Italy, 57 per cent in Germany and 50 per cent in France.

Wales, incredibly, does not at present possess a single mile of electrified railway, a distinction that it shares with Albania and Moldova alone of European nations with railway systems.

The passenger and operational benefits of electrification are immense. Electric trains are far quieter, more reliable, less polluting and cheaper to buy and maintain than diesel trains, and this difference is increasing over time. These main-line electrifications will pay for themselves over the medium term in reduced train and track running, leasing and maintenance costs.

These electrifications also serve the cause of joined-up transport planning, in contrast to the short-termism of the past. The Great Western electrification will be integrated with both the £425 million upgrade of Reading station and the £16 billion Crossrail project that, from 2017, will take commuter trains from Essex through a new Central London tunnel to Slough, Heathrow and Maidenhead, west of London. It would now be possible to extend Crossrail to Reading, which I will discuss with the Mayor of London. Electrification will also improve rail access to Heathrow from the west.

Electrification comes just as we are planning to replace the 30-year-old diesel InterCity 125 fleet, and to increase diesel train capacity on the Thames Valley commuter routes.

Today’s decision will enable us to move directly to electric trains on most of these services, and we are also developing a hybrid diesel and electric traction Super Express Train, to enable through-running to destinations on the Great Western that will not be electrified within the current programme.

Rail electrification is central to the low-carbon plan set out by Ed Miliband, the Energy Secretary, last week. An electric train emits around a third less carbon per passenger mile than a diesel train, and less than half as much as a private car and a quarter as much as a short-haul plane. Rail is a small proportion of total transport and, therefore, of transport emissions, but its capacity to reduce overall emissions is significant if we pursue a relentless policy of both electrification and expansion, including high-speed rail.

At present rail accounts for only 6.3 per cent of journeys, half the proportion of Switzerland and a fifth of that in Japan. There is no good reason why Britain should not aim for much higher proportions.

There is an important industrial policy dimension too. Britain not only invented rail technology; we capitalised on it to build a good proportion of the world’s first railways and steam engines, including the first Japanese railways in the 1870s.

Nothing but poverty of ambition and sustained investment holds us back from a leading part in the fast growing 21st-century international rail market. This week Nissan announced a £200 million investment in a new car battery factory in Sunderland, alongside the decision by Lord Mandelson, the Business Secretary, to designate the area as a Low Carbon Economic Area to benefit from central and local government support for low-carbon industries. We must be similarly determined to lead in rail. Britain’s railway engineers and pioneers should aspire to be the proud heirs of Brunel and Stephenson.

Andrew Adonis is Secretary of State for Transport

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6723747.ece
 
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bengley

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Water? lol... It rains all the time onto OHLE.

Also, this could see the beginning of the end of the HSTs
 

The Planner

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I expect it would also mean all the freight via Gloucester, the tunnel is W6 gauge, so OHLE would probably constrict that a bit more.
 

jamesontheroad

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Services between Manchester and Scotland
The existing TransPennine Express services between Manchester Airport 66.
and Glasgow/Edinburgh are operated by diesel trains, running under the
overhead wires for more than 85% of their journey. Completion of the first
phase of electrification, between Manchester and Newton-le-Willows, will
allow through-train electric operation between Manchester and Scotland via
the West Coast main line. This new service will use modern, air-conditioned
trains which are currently used on West Coast Main Line services from
London Euston. These high-powered, four-carriage electric multiple units
have greater capacity than the existing trains, relieving crowding in key
sections of the route.

Class 350s for the TPE Manchester / Scotland services?

Bedford / Sheffield is indicated as being under further study, although (in my opinion) crazily only as far as Sheffield. An extra push to the ECML or Wakefield would be much better value if done in one go, providing diversionary routes etc.
 

Aictos

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Yes but if the 350s move northbound, what's going to replace them?
 

Pumbaa

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Two schemes announced this morning at Paddington by Gordon Brown and Adonis:

- Work to start immediately on Manchester - Preston via Newton-le-Willows
- Between 2012 and 2017 the GWML to be electrified through to Swansea, via both Bath and Bristol Parkway, including Bedywn and Oxford, in conjunction with Crossrail.

MML case still being looked at, although many "insiders" expect it to be a given.
 

me123

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Perhaps you'll be more likely to see a second order of 380s for the TPE routes? I imagine that Transport Scotland would order more of these or a similar new unit one Glasgow-Edinburgh et al is electrified.
 

djw1981

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Urgh no!
It will be completed by 2013 thus after the end of this TPE franchise, and will be taking a different route to now*, so how about some cl90+DVT from NXEA with NXEA getting cl91 instead? The comfort of mk3 coaching, additional capacity but short form (4-5 carriages), it would fair fly.

* currently Manchester-Preston via Chorley, on which an electrification announcement is still awaited.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Perhaps you'll be more likely to see a second order of 380s for the TPE routes? I imagine that Transport Scotland would order more of these or a similar new unit one Glasgow-Edinburgh et al is electrified.

I'd have thought bombardier electrostar could be in with a shout for the E-G route given the turbostar centre of excellence and the commonality of features? Either way I think a second electric depot will be needed - Bathgate Yoker, Ayr and Motherwell are really just carriage stabling depots. But the 170 fleet will probably still be Haymarket based given the intensity of diesel workings which will remain; with 158 still based in UInverness. MAybe time for Eastfield to go electric?

IT will be interesting with the new DMU order just how many 1790 / 158 go south from Scotalnd and how many are used for servcie strengthening in Scotland.
 

Bayum

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Urgh no!
It will be completed by 2013 thus after the end of this TPE franchise, and will be taking a different route to now*, so how about some cl90+DVT from NXEA with NXEA getting cl91 instead? The comfort of mk3 coaching, additional capacity but short form (4-5 carriages), it would fair fly.

* currently Manchester-Preston via Chorley, on which an electrification announcement is still awaited.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I'd have thought bombardier electrostar could be in with a shout for the E-G route given the turbostar centre of excellence and the commonality of features? Either way I think a second electric depot will be needed - Bathgate Yoker, Ayr and Motherwell are really just carriage stabling depots. But the 170 fleet will probably still be Haymarket based given the intensity of diesel workings which will remain; with 158 still based in UInverness. MAybe time for Eastfield to go electric?

IT will be interesting with the new DMU order just how many 1790 / 158 go south from Scotalnd and how many are used for servcie strengthening in Scotland.

Surely TPE will keep the franchise though... Wont they get it for having good figures and so what, then rebid at a later date??

Or is that the later date?
 

djw1981

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Please no - the bimode IEP is awful - just read Roger Ford's engineering analysis of it in Modern Railways... On diesel only mode it is compromised due to small diesel engine.

It looks like we only need bi mode in West country and North of Edinburgh, so why not do what Virgion do and just buy an EMU and stick a loco on the front, please? It will also mean a journey without the floor vibrations from distributed power.
 

djw1981

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Ah yes the optional extension kicks in then for 5 years, but that also allows government to make substantial changes without having to pay excessive compensation. So changes of route and rolling stock etc are easiest at that point.
 

Bayum

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Hmmmmm yeahhh, I don't really see it changing a lot though to be fair... They're pretty well served are FTPE!
 

djw1981

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But they will need new stock if they are to run under (and using) the wires to Scotland.

The government will not put the wires up without a pretty good assurance that they will be used straight away and intensely, so I suspect that the Northern services to Liverpool will be switched to EMU as well.
 

ffcphone

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The BBC have reported the immediate start of work to electrify Manchester to Liverpool as follows:

"Between Manchester and Liverpool a smaller project to electrify the line via Newton-le-Willows has also been given the green light.

This will have the added benefit of allowing Transpennine trains between Manchester airport and Glasgow to run on electric power."

As a daily commuter between Bolton and Preston the second paragraph concerns me.

At the present time, Northern Rail and First TransPennine Express run services from Manchester through to Blackpool North, Barrow in Furness, Glasgow & Edinburgh meaning there's a good number of trains through Bolton and Chorley to Preston.

With the Manchester to Liverpool line electrified, presumably fTPE will be put under significant pressure to use that line for the routing of their (new electric) Scottish services meaning Edinburgh and Glasgow services will no longer run to Preston via Bolton and Chorley. It seems unlikely additional services will be run to cater for this so a reduced frequency service (via Bolton and Chorley) will result.

Am I wide of the mark?

Sky's coverage, meanwhile, references the possible electrification of Preston to Manchester to be considered later in the year although from reading on this forum, it would seem there's other more "worthy" lines needing attention first.

F
 

djw1981

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There are possible uses for the 91s on the GEML and running alongside new IEP trains. With interior modifications, it would also be possible to run them as longer distance commuter trains from London. And, if there was further electrification, they could also be used on these new routes.

I think the 91s have really good a lot of potential for the 10 years or so after they're displaced, so it'd be a waste to just scrap them. They are good trains with a lot of potential and a lot of life left in them.

cl 91 could do a lot of the southern WCML - the non tilt bits,
 

Kneedown

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MML case still being looked at, although many "insiders" expect it to be a given.

What more do they need to look at for goodness sake?
It's a no brainer that a route with the uphill/downhill characteristics, and lower speeds of the MML would benefit far more from electrification than the already high speed, billiard table flat GW.

I fear that the announcement later this year will be that the MML electrification will be binned, otherwise why did they not announce it today?
I hope i'm wrong.
 

ffcphone

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As I've posted elsewhere, I fear for a decrease in service frequency along the Manchester-Bolton-Chorley-Preston corridor. fTPE will be obliged to reroute Scottish services via the new Manchester-Liverpool electrified line and thus existing Scottish services via Bolton and Chorley will no longer feature. For those of us who commute along that line, that is a concern.

F
 

Phoenix

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The sub section entitled 'Freight' is pretty pitiful just stating 'rail freight operators will be able to take the opportunity to lower costs by using electric locomotives to hauled freight along the GWML'
I mean yes this is excellent news as I back electrification all the way but if proposals are going to be made more research is needed to broaden the scale of the positive points of the wires going up.
 

The Snap

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Apparently diesel trains pollute the environment more than electric trains...

Consider these images (which, BTW, are not mine and were found on Google):

1423954046_e05c9a49b5.jpg


slideshow_coalpower.jpg


I think not! However, I'm playing Devil’s advocate there.

Locally, pollution will be reduced by the introduction of electric trains, and journey times will be reduced. This is a positive thing. :)

However, our beloved diesel trains that make loads of noise and smell amazing will be gone! :(

My solution to please everyone would be to soak the new electric trains in diesel to make them smell nice, and attach a speaker to the traction motors so that every time the train moves, the noise of a diesel is played! :p:lol:

A good move by the government, if it ever gets pulled off! Will certainly keep me in work in the next 10 years! :)
 

D841

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Class 350s for the TPE Manchester / Scotland services?

That might make sense, given that TPE operate Desiros (even if they are the diesel version) and Siemens have a maintenance depot for them in Manchester. The next logical move has to be electrification from Guide Bridge to Leeds and from Neville Hill to Colton South Jn. That would put the Liverpool/Manchester Airport/York/Newcastle TPEs under the wires too.
 

350401

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One benefit, not already mentioned, is that through displacing the 185s on the Manchester-Scotland routes, FTPE can use these 'spare' 185s to strengthen the other transpennine routes up to 6 cars. All round win. Furthermore, moving to electric operation on the Liverpool-Manchester (chat moss) route will free up the 156s and 150s used on that line, enabling Nothern to use them for strengthening currently overcrowded diesel services, enabling more services to be run as 4 or 6 car operations. So in short, I'm very happy to see this announcement. I hope its the start of further electrification, but to see that the North has got something in the first round is pretty nice.
 

route:oxford

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The sub section entitled 'Freight' is pretty pitiful just stating 'rail freight operators will be able to take the opportunity to lower costs by using electric locomotives to hauled freight along the GWML'


Freight from Southampton to Birmingham?

Diesel to Reading
Electric to Oxford
Diesel to Coventry
Electric to Birmingham

Bin Liner from Bristol to Calvert...

Electric all the way to Oxford
Diesel to Calvert and back.
Electric to Bristol

Probably won't happen.
 

johnb

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On the incremental schemes, additional freight benefit, etc: they'll almost certainly happen, but there's a very good reason things are being done the way they are.

If you can say "there is a strong economic case to electrify Manchester-Liverpool via NLW, and there is a strong case to electrify the GWML to Swansea, Brizzle, Oxford and Newbury, and this is true even if we don't do any other electrification and even if freight operators don't shift over", then the scheme can go ahead and get funded on its own merits.

But if you factor in the benefits of freight, of fill-in and extension services and so on as part of the business case, and then freight operators come out and say they don't want to swap over, then that puts the scheme at risk.

The incremental schemes being proposed (Oxford-Coventry, Reading-Basingstoke, Manchester-Bolton, Manchester-Leeds, Leeds-York, Sheffield-Leeds and so on) will all happen, because *once the schemes that have a business case in their own right in isolation are done*, the fill-in schemes will have a strong business case too.
 

scandal

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What excellent news, first electrification announcement in about 15 years! I noted that apparently the Barnt Green top Bromsgrove (aka. Lickey Incline) is to be wired (confirmed previously), does anyone know why? I thought most trains on that route went to Malvern and Worcester, are there even turnback facilities at Bromsgrove?

The £100m for the 32 miles between Liverpool and Manchester seems fair enough and is good news, but I'd of thought the likely route for wiring there would of been via Widnes & Warrington?

The £1bn price tag for the GWML to Swansea seems to intrigue me, I'm certain both the MML and GWML were costed at this price before, I can only assume its nearer to £500m being spent of "new" money and the £1bn found when adding in the £425m Reading station remodelling. I am also quite suprised that the Valley Lines have not been mentioned here, surely that would of been a good candidiate for funding from the Welsh Assembley as well as no doubt the Labour government after the hammering it faced in Wales in the EU elections a few weeks ago.

I am however disappointed the MML has not been provided funding, it is a fairly self contained line (routes Nottingham, Corby and Sheffield) so would of allowed nearly all services to be electric at fairly low cost...services onward to York, Melton, Lincoln etc could easily be provided be dual mode IEP or by the old fashioned idea of sticking a loco on the front when these few services operate.
 

robert2000

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electrify earlstown to chester, that gives arriva trains wales enough time to buy some electric trains.

yet you would probably say they would have to electrify all the way to llandudno and holyhead, now that would please virgin trains to allow for a later departure from holyhead to get into london befor 9am rather than the current 4.50am departure, re-signalling is needed aswell on the north wales line.
 

The Planner

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Barnt Green to Bromsgrove will be wired for the Cross City extension, and Bromsgrove will either be re-built or moved closer to Stoke Works Jn.

GWML will be £1bn, Reading will be a seperate project with its own funding. MML will get done, you can bet your house on that one. Cardiff Valleys will come later.
 
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