When a corner shop loses their alcohol license

[johntea]

Something I don't understand, I read in the paper quite often about corner shops that have lost their alcohol license due to being found to sell dodgy fags and booze.

...But surely they don't give a toss about losing the license and will just continue to sell their dodgy goods under the counter?!

 

[telstarbox]

Quite easy for police / trading standards to go undercover...

 

[fowler9]

Something I don't understand, I read in the paper quite often about corner shops that have lost their alcohol license due to being found to sell dodgy fags and booze.

...But surely they don't give a toss about losing the license and will just continue to sell their dodgy goods under the counter?!

Happened to a few businesses near where I live for selling booze and fags to kids. Once they loose their license they can't sell booze to anyone at least. They all close down shortly afterwards. If you can't legally sell booze to anyone you are going to struggle with say a bargain booze down the road.

 

[Bromley boy]

Happened to a few businesses near where I live for selling booze and fags to kids. Once they loose their license they can't sell booze to anyone at least. They all close down shortly afterwards. If you can't legally sell booze to anyone you are going to struggle with say a bargain booze down the road.

Very true and the same in my neck of the woods.

Most of these shops probably make the majority of their profit from booze - says it all about the drinking culture in the uk!

 

[Howardh]

Why should the UK be so different from the continent? You can buy alcohol from virtually any shop or take-aways on the continent, I've stopped for a hamburger on a back street and been able to buy a can of beer with it. Here you can go to a small village, say in the Lakes or Dales, and plenty of little cafes but none can sell you a glass of wine - unless thye want to go down the licencing route which obviously many don't.
I suppose those Europeans treat alcohol much more sanely than us, and they have been brought up in a different culture?

 

[yorkie]

Why should the UK be so different from the continent? You can buy alcohol from virtually any shop or take-aways on the continent, I've stopped for a hamburger on a back street and been able to buy a can of beer with it. Here you can go to a small village, say in the Lakes or Dales, and plenty of little cafes but none can sell you a glass of wine - unless thye want to go down the licencing route which obviously many don't.
I suppose those Europeans treat alcohol much more sanely than us, and they have been brought up in a different culture?

You answered the question, though it's a minority of people in the UK who drink irresponsibly, the problem is that it's such a sizeable minority and when some of them get drunk they can cause havoc (as seen at certain stations on Saturday nights), therefore clearly various measures are required to combat this problem.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Something I don't understand, I read in the paper quite often about corner shops that have lost their alcohol license due to being found to sell dodgy fags and booze.

...But surely they don't give a toss about losing the license and will just continue to sell their dodgy goods under the counter?!

I suggest that they do 'give a toss' about having the licence for legitimate purchasers, but then also want to go 'above and beyond' by selling to others as well for that extra bit of profit.

By removing the licence (which is not easy) you remove the justification for having alcohol / tobacco on the premises (beyond personal requirements which wouldn't be in the shop area anyway. Man walks out of shop with can / packet in hand 'bingo'; warrant, search, prosecute.

 

[Bromley boy]

I suppose those Europeans treat alcohol much more sanely than us, and they have been brought up in a different culture?

It does seem Europeans have a more "grown up" approach to alcohol. They see it as something to be enjoyed with a meal but there isn't the culture we have of people drinking specifically to get as leathered as possible.

Of course cheap booze widely available in supermarkets and corner shops makes this problem worse, as does greater availability of high strength lagers and wines than was the case 20 or 30 years ago.

 

[furnessvale]

It does seem Europeans have a more "grown up" approach to alcohol. They see it as something to be enjoyed with a meal but there isn't the culture we have of people drinking specifically to get as leathered as possible.

But what about the Germans? I don't see Oktoberfest as a drink enjoyed with a meal!

 

[fowler9]

I really don't know the answer. There is indeed a different attitude to booze on the continent but it isn't always necessarily that they drink less. My ex had Italian family and they drank a hell of a lot as did there friends. Where. Visiting my Spanish friends they drank a hell of a lot. My Polish mates are legendary drinkers and when I have visited them the only trouble I have seen is Brits misbehaving. These are generalisations and don't hold true for every nationality but I have never seen anything like the carnage in a British city anywhere else on my travels.

 

[Bromley boy]

I really don't know the answer. There is indeed a different attitude to booze on the continent but it isn't always necessarily that they drink less. My ex had Italian family and they drank a hell of a lot as did there friends. Where. Visiting my Spanish friends they drank a hell of a lot. My Polish mates are legendary drinkers and when I have visited them the only trouble I have seen is Brits misbehaving. These are generalisations and don't hold true for every nationality but I have never seen anything like the carnage in a British city anywhere else on my travels.

Indeed. I think I’m right in saying that full blown alcoholism is more of a problem in Eastern Europe than the U.K., but these countries don’t have the same issues with binge drinking as we do. Alcoholics aren’t likely to be anti social, but they are more likely to be unemployed, homeless, in poor health etc.

Interesting analysis of the drinking habits of different countries in Europe below, apparently the continent can be divided into the beer belt, wine belt and Vodka belt (no prizes for guessing which the one the U.K. fits into ).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_belts_of_Europe

The alcohol belts of Europe are regions in Europewhich are considered to be divided by association with either beer, wine or spirits.[6]

 

[Bromley boy]

But what about the Germans? I don't see Oktoberfest as a drink enjoyed with a meal!

I’m not sure what the real Oktoberfest is like in Germany. As I understand it it is a traditional folk festival and I believe it is customary to drink the beer with traditional food.

Certainly the version of it I went to last year (in London) involved a hell of a lot of drinking and not much eating!

 

[furnessvale]

I’m not sure what the real Oktoberfest is like in Germany. As I understand it it is a traditional folk festival and I believe it is customary to drink the beer with traditional food.

Certainly the version of it I went to last year (in London) involved a hell of a lot of drinking and not much eating!

In Munich, much ale is quaffed but admittedly they eat sausages to soak some beer up.

Mind you the Germans have been kidding themselves for years on the quantity they allegedly drink. The average litre of beer over there has little more than half a litre in the glass, the rest being head, and it would certainly be sent back for me for topping up in the UK!

 

[Bertie the bus]

It does seem Europeans have a more "grown up" approach to alcohol. They see it as something to be enjoyed with a meal but there isn't the culture we have of people drinking specifically to get as leathered as possible.

This website seems to dispute your theory.

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/alcohol/by-country/

The UK is 59th in alcohol related deaths and a long way behind many European countries including Scandanavian countries, France and Germany.

 

[fowler9]

Indeed. I think I’m right in saying that full blown alcoholism is more of a problem in Eastern Europe than the U.K., but these countries don’t have the same issues with binge drinking as we do. Alcoholics aren’t likely to be anti social, but they are more likely to be unemployed, homeless, in poor health etc.

Interesting analysis of the drinking habits of different countries in Europe below, apparently the continent can be divided into the beer belt, wine belt and Vodka belt (no prizes for guessing which the one the U.K. fits into ).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_belts_of_Europe

Ha ha, no surprises there. i think part of the problem now in the UK is people getting absolutely blasted on shooters at the same time as having beers. Also there is vertical drinking which was a phrase I came across a few years ago. Another generalisation from me but in the UK there is much more of a trend for everyone to be stood up in bars, that means they can't always put their drink down as easily which of course means it gets drunk quicker. Also in the UK there seems more of a tendency to have music cranked up as loud as possible, when no one can have a conversation everyone just drinks more instead and has the odd shout to each other. I'm not saying none of this happens on the continent, just that it really doesn't happen as much.

 

[Bromley boy]

This website seems to dispute your theory.

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/alcohol/by-country/

The UK is 59th in alcohol related deaths and a long way behind many European countries including Scandanavian countries, France and Germany.

As I thought the top ten are mostly Eastern European (and Russia).

These figures do indeed show that alcoholism is a bigger problem in much of Europe, albeit they might still see less anti social binge drinking than the UK. More Europeans drink themselves to death, but they do it in a classier way than us brits.

On a serious note a distant relative of mine died last year in his early 40s from internal bleeding caused by alcoholism (my understanding was that his liver was so damaged that blood couldn't pass through it and the arteries leading to it burst). This was despite previously being warned by Drs that further drinking would = death. A horrible way to go and it underlined how powerful an addiction it is.

 

[najaB]

The UK is 59th in alcohol related deaths and a long way behind many European countries including Scandanavian countries, France and Germany.

While it's WHO data there are a few discrepancies that make me question it's accuracy - I wonder how much of it is down to the way that causes of death are reported. For example, in terms of drinking culture there aren't many differences between Jamaica and Barbados yet they are 20 places apart in the table.

 

[fowler9]

As I thought the top ten are mostly Eastern European (and Russia).

These figures do indeed show that alcoholism is a bigger problem in much of Europe, albeit they might still see less anti social binge drinking than the UK. More Europeans drink themselves to death, but they do it in a classier way than us brits.

On a serious note a distant relative of mine died last year in his early 40s from internal bleeding caused by alcoholism (my understanding was that his liver was so damaged that blood couldn't pass through it and the arteries leading to it burst). This was despite previously being warned by Drs that further drinking would = death. A horrible way to go and it underlined how powerful an addiction it is.

So sorry to hear that mate. A mate of mine lost his fiance last year in similar circumstances also in her early 40's. I have a lot of sympathy for people in that situation, it seems to be viewed by many as a selfish and unacceptable situation to be in. I don't view it that way at all. They don't do it for fun. Anyway, apologies if anyone feels this is off topic. I do feel it ties in with shops loosing their license, which is normally for selling to kids or selling dodgy products.

 

[Bertie the bus]

These figures do indeed show that alcoholism is a bigger problem in much of Europe, albeit they might still see less anti social binge drinking than the UK. More Europeans drink themselves to death, but they do it in a classier way than us brits.

Which is also a dubious claim. Our media is hardly likely to report on drunken violence in some provincial French town but it certainly does report on drunken violence in the UK. Just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

 

[Bromley boy]

So sorry to hear that mate. A mate of mine lost his fiance last year in similar circumstances also in her early 40's. I have a lot of sympathy for people in that situation, it seems to be viewed by many as a selfish and unacceptable situation to be in. I don't view it that way at all. They don't do it for fun. Anyway, apologies if anyone feels this is off topic. I do feel it ties in with shops loosing their license, which is normally for selling to kids or selling dodgy products.

Thanks. I totally agree with you. The awful thing is I can remember having a pint with him at the wake of a funeral we both went to the previous year. Obviously none of us realised how serious his problems had become.

Once they reach that stage it is a disease rather than just an addiction. Unfortunately the stigma means people aren’t willing to talk about it openly, and perhaps prevents people getting the help they need - much like mental health issues.

 

[fowler9]

Which is also a dubious claim. Our media is hardly likely to report on drunken violence in some provincial French town but it certainly does report on drunken violence in the UK. Just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Of course it happens. It isn't generally the same free for all you get in the UK every Friday and Saturday night.

 

[Bromley boy]

Which is also a dubious claim. Our media is hardly likely to report on drunken violence in some provincial French town but it certainly does report on drunken violence in the UK. Just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

You do seem to be arguing for the sake of it. Anyone who has spent any time in the U.K. and Europe knows that binge drinking in the U.K. is worse than in much of Europe, and indeed there are figures to back it up.

Go down to your local A&E on a Friday and Saturday night and you’ll see just how big a problem it has become.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...evels-are-among-the-highest-in-the-world.html

Britain is among the worst countries in the world for binge drinking, according to a new report by the World Health Organisation.

The research examined 196 countries and placed the UK 13th highest for heavy drinking - worse than countries such as Estonia, Ukraine, Belarus and Hungary.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It does seem Europeans have a more "grown up" approach to alcohol. They see it as something to be enjoyed with a meal but there isn't the culture we have of people drinking specifically to get as leathered as possible.

Of course cheap booze widely available in supermarkets and corner shops makes this problem worse, as does greater availability of high strength lagers and wines than was the case 20 or 30 years ago.

Only with the cultural problem. Wine in France is dirt cheap and still good, while European lager is stronger than typical British brews.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In Munich, much ale is quaffed but admittedly they eat sausages to soak some beer up.

Mind you the Germans have been kidding themselves for years on the quantity they allegedly drink. The average litre of beer over there has little more than half a litre in the glass, the rest being head, and it would certainly be sent back for me for topping up in the UK!

The Mass (litre) glasses used in the Hofbrauhaus and the likes (which isn't the norm for drinking beer in Germany; half litres or even 330 or 250ml glasses are much more usual) are lined glasses, the head goes above the line. I've got one somewhere (yes, I paid for it!)

 

[jon0844]

This website seems to dispute your theory.

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/alcohol/by-country/

The UK is 59th in alcohol related deaths and a long way behind many European countries including Scandanavian countries, France and Germany.

I think you have a big difference between alcoholics, who may well drink themselves to death, and binge drinkers that get into fights and cause loads of problems for others.

In fact, the two are almost entirely separate issues and not linked. Most people on a mission over a weekend aren't necessarily addicted to alcohol. They can go days without a drink, then play catch up.

 

[Bromley boy]

Only with the cultural problem. Wine in France is dirt cheap and still good, while European lager is stronger than typical British brews.

Yes indeed, but increasingly it is the polish lagers we are buying, many of which are 6 or 7%. Pubs are increasingly stocking high strength lagers as people move away from more traditional ales. For many people (myself included) flavoursome, strong lagers are infinitely preferable to brown, flat “real ales” that look and taste like dishwater!

Wine wasn’t as widely consumed in the U.K. in the 70s and 80s as it is today and is now a lot cheaper in real terms.

I’m not sure what the answer is. I’m not enormously in favour of restrictions on sale, minimum unit prices etc. but there is undoubtedly a cultural problem which needs to be addressed.

 

[fowler9]

I think you have a big difference between alcoholics, who may well drink themselves to death, and binge drinkers that get into fights and cause loads of problems for others.

In fact, the two are almost entirely separate issues and not linked. Most people on a mission over a weekend aren't necessarily addicted to alcohol. They can go days without a drink, then play catch up.

Yeah, this was my thinking as well. Apologies I didn't make it clearer myself. They are pretty much two distinct groups with a small crossover I think. The UK has a massive problem with people getting blasted and causing problems for other people which I haven't seen reproduced in other places I have visited (Other than by other people from the UK visiting said countries).

 

[PeterC]

The ki

Why should the UK be so different from the continent? You can buy alcohol from virtually any shop or take-aways on the continent, I've stopped for a hamburger on a back street and been able to buy a can of beer with it. Here you can go to a small village, say in the Lakes or Dales, and plenty of little cafes but none can sell you a glass of wine - unless thye want to go down the licencing route which obviously many don't.
I suppose those Europeans treat alcohol much more sanely than us, and they have been brought up in a different culture?

the landlady of my local wouldn't agree. She moans like hell about the pub being designated an "asset of community value" by the council who then grant licences to every tea shop in the town splitting the lunchtime trade. They can get a change of use if the business doesn't pay, she can't.

 

[Busaholic]

Something I don't understand, I read in the paper quite often about corner shops that have lost their alcohol license due to being found to sell dodgy fags and booze.

...But surely they don't give a toss about losing the license and will just continue to sell their dodgy goods under the counter?!

It must depend on which area you live in. In my neck of Cornwall we've had clubs and shops that have lost their licences, they 'appeal' and the appeal never seems to come to court! In the meantime, they are apparently allowed to continue trading. This even happens where they (shops) are found guilty of selling to underage - in fact, the guy concerned has recently opened another shop, and been given a licence. Incredible!