Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[nuneatonmark]

We would be quite happy having one or two 230s at Bermuda Park!

 

[Cheshire Rover]

We would be quite happy having one or two 230s at Bermuda Park!

They also sound like an good option for a Helsby to E Port shuttle service..

 

[HLE]

They are anything but bullet proof down here!

Must be the air down there!

They were awful 4/5 years ago. Tyseley have definitely started to get them performing better since.

 

[HLE]

We would be quite happy having one or two 230s at Bermuda Park!

No thank you! We’ll happily wait for the 172’s from LO next year.

 

[mushroomchow]

I thought I'd bump this thread, as the new issue of the Railway Magazine is out tomorrow and they're supposed to be running an in-depth article on Vivarail and its operation.

Everything's gone quiet on the 230 front recently. Normally no news is good news, but not in the rolling stock procurement world! I'll relay the key points from the article when it lands on my doorstep.

 

[47802]

I thought I'd bump this thread, as the new issue of the Railway Magazine is out tomorrow and they're supposed to be running an in-depth article on Vivarail and its operation.

Everything's gone quiet on the 230 front recently. Normally no news is good news, but not in the rolling stock procurement world! I'll relay the key points from the article when it lands on my doorstep.

Except of course many people would regard no news of any orders as good news in the case of this train

 

[D365]

It's a pity then that they've got a number of units currently under construction..!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Based upon their latest construction news they issued regarding the number of units they can produce each month, what is likely to be the motive power unit of those units under construction?

I wrote this in the forlorn hope that someone will NOT automatically assume posting decryment as soon as they see my username...

 

[D365]

I believe the units under construction for WMT will be diesels.

 

[47802]

I believe the units under construction for WMT will be diesels.

So are we saying that the units under construction are for WMT then? I was under the impression that a formal order hadn't actually been placed but merely they were considering it, mind if an order has been placed I could understand why they would want to keep it Quiet

 

[nuneatonmark]

No thank you! We’ll happily wait for the 172’s from LO next year.

'This year' looks like December for the 172s to come to the Nuneaton to Coventry line, won't be a minute too late! won't be counting any chickens until I actually see them though.

 

[HLE]

'This year' looks like December for the 172s to come to the Nuneaton to Coventry line, won't be a minute too late! won't be counting any chickens until I actually see them though.

That’s the latest date given anyway.
All depends on how the cascade goes from LO I suppose

 

[mushroomchow]

Sorry for the late response, the magazine was delayed this month for whatever reason.

Essentially, the beef of the report is that the practices at Long Marston have been turning heavily towards working on the battery technology in line with the government grant they received. A number of options are being researched - including battery arrays for charging at stations and short stretches of catenary for AC pantograph charging, either while stationary or on the move. From what it sounds like, they're pretty much done developing the production diesel models, having seemingly nipped in the bud the issues from the Kenilworth fire and these are available for purchase now, with them expecting an initial BEMU design to be available sometime late this year or early next. Mainline testing of both 230002 (diesel) and the prototype BEMU under development is due from April onwards, though the date for the latter isn't clear.

One interesting nugget is that they're now actively pursuing options for other redundant units to convert, presumably with regards to the on-the-fly pantograph charging, so Vivarail's output isn't necessarily going to be permanently tied to the D78 stock.

Finally, the key news most people on this thread will want to know is that, yes, they're building 3 units for the Marston Vale line, and they're due to enter service in December 2018.

 

[northwichcat]

Are the 3 units for Marston Vale going to include one or both of the prototype diesel and BEMU units?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Finally, the key news most people on this thread will want to know is that, yes, they're building 3 units for the Marston Vale line, and they're due to enter service in December 2018.

It is fortunate that we have to thank a RailUK forums contributor for the information stated above, as the official Vivarail news website has no news whatsoever concerning that particular matter.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

'This year' looks like December for the 172s to come to the Nuneaton to Coventry line, won't be a minute too late! won't be counting any chickens until I actually see them though.

OwlMan, on his posting # 129 on the "New Nuneaton station" thread, has posted a fully detailed ORR information sheet which makes specific notation of a Class 153 mode of traction and no Sunday services on the Coventry to Leamington Spa line.

 

[mushroomchow]

Are the 3 units for Marston Vale going to include one or both of the prototype diesel and BEMU units?

All diesel I believe.

It is fortunate that we have to thank a RailUK forums contributor for the information stated above, as the official Vivarail news website has no news whatsoever concerning that particular matter.

I don't know if that's meant to be a snipe at me or not, but I'll reiterate that I'm just relaying what has been published in the in-depth article in this month's Railway Magazine.

The VivaRail website is crap - it barely even got updated during the LM Open Day runs. The only thing they've deemed worthy of an official update in recent times has been Robert Llewellyn coming to visit! I'd say that article is about as "ITK" as you're going to get at this point in time without an inside contact at VivaRail, at least until mainline trials recommence in April.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't know if that's meant to be a snipe at me or not, but I'll reiterate that I'm just relaying what has been published in the in-depth article in this month's Railway Magazine. The VivaRail website is crap - it barely even got updated during the LM Open Day runs.

Far from it. It was a grateful "thank you" for the information that you supplied that the company did not see fit to put on their very own news website.

 

[47802]

I suppose to be fair I doubt the website has much relevance in the world of Railway vehicle purchase, merely useful for those interested in its progress or demise depending on your point of view.

 

[D365]

There's always a lot of discussion regarding rolling stock negotiation between companies, more than what is made public.

 

[HLE]

OwlMan, on his posting # 129 on the "New Nuneaton station" thread, has posted a fully detailed ORR information sheet which makes specific notation of a Class 153 mode of traction and no Sunday services on the Coventry to Leamington Spa line.

153’s will work the Coventry - Leamington service from later this month until the 172’s are cascaded up this way, from London Overground. They’ll then need to train the drivers up as none have signed 172’s before they take over the Nuneaton to Coventry service and the Coventry to Leamington service. The 8 units currently allocated to the West Midlands franchise are pencilled in for cascade to EMT from 2019.

Knowing the railway, the timeline may slip a little....

 

[HLE]

There's always a lot of discussion regarding rolling stock negotiation between companies, more than what is made public.

This.

Only in October a letter was uploaded to the internet saying 172’s would work the new Cov-Leam shuttle using Leamington crew

Result? 153’s will now work the service from late Feb onwards worked by Coventry crew.

Even within companies things change day to day.

 

[adrock1976]

153’s will work the Coventry - Leamington service from later this month until the 172’s are cascaded up this way, from London Overground. They’ll then need to train the drivers up as none have signed 172’s before they take over the Nuneaton to Coventry service and the Coventry to Leamington service. The 8 units currently allocated to the West Midlands franchise are pencilled in for cascade to EMT from 2019.

Knowing the railway, the timeline may slip a little....

Will the Coventry drivers be heading to Tyseley/Birmingham Snow Hill/Moor Street to train on the 172s that run to/from Stourbridge or will they be waiting for the London Overground fleet to transfer before starting training?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Will the Coventry drivers be heading to Tyseley/Birmingham Snow Hill/Moor Street to train on the 172s that run to/from Stourbridge or will they be waiting for the London Overground fleet to transfer before starting training?

It wouldn't surprise me if the different cabs mean that training on the existing Midlands 172s wouldn't work, particularly as visibility may well be different between the gangwayed and ungangwayed units. Just a guess though...

 

[HLE]

Will the Coventry drivers be heading to Tyseley/Birmingham Snow Hill/Moor Street to train on the 172s that run to/from Stourbridge or will they be waiting for the London Overground fleet to transfer before starting training?

I would think nothing would happen until the LO 172’s arrive on scene.

 

[northwichcat]

This.

Only in October a letter was uploaded to the internet saying 172’s would work the new Cov-Leam shuttle using Leamington crew

Result? 153’s will now work the service from late Feb onwards worked by Coventry crew.

Even within companies things change day to day.

I would have thought any real rolling stock changes wouldn't happen prior to WMR getting inbound cascades or new stock.

 

[northwichcat]

The 8 units currently allocated to the West Midlands franchise are pencilled in for cascade to EMT from 2019.

Are they still supposed to get 6 x 153s from GWR as a short term measure or will be D-Trains be in lieu of that?

 

[HLE]

Are they still supposed to get 6 x 153s from GWR as a short term measure or will be D-Trains be in lieu of that?

I *doubt* that will now happen. I would think the 150’s will stay until the 230’s come on board in December

 

[HLE]

I would have thought any real rolling stock changes wouldn't happen prior to WMR getting inbound cascades or new stock.

Agreed, no point to be honest.
Why train up drivers on sub class they won’t work in service only to then send them on a small conversion course when the LO 172’s arrive.

 

[northwichcat]

I *doubt* that will now happen. I would think the 150’s will stay until the 230’s come on board in December

If GWR are in a position to release 153s before December it wouldn't make sense to leave them in sidings while there's a DMU shortage but obviously if they are to be an interim solution then they need to go on to a route where they can be used without requiring a lot of crew training or timetable revisions.