School bus withdrawn due to behaviour of pupils

[Martin1988]

It was reported locally yesterday that the 432 school bus route (which runs to Wellsway school in Keynsham and is operated by South Gloucestershire Bus and Coach) is being withdrawn by the operator due to the behaviour of pupils. A link to the article can be found here:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/parents-furious-school-bus-company-1176006

A school bus company has come under fire from parents after withdrawing a service - accusing pupils of repeatedly abusing the driver and damaging the bus.

South Gloucestershire Bus and Coach Company said a small number of the pupils on the 432 bus service to Wellsway School and IKB Academy in Keynsham were responsible for the "abuse" and substantial damage and have repeatedly compromised the safety of themselves and others.

The bad behaviour is said to have escalated in October 2017 and so, despite providing the service for just over a decade, the company took the decision to cancel the bus.

Parents of pupils using the bus are furious, saying their children are being too harshly punished for the actions of a few students and will now be put at risk with no secure way of getting to and from school each day.

Parents are understood to have been contacted in October about the poor behaviour reported by the bus company, which says it acted within its remit to try and resolve the problem and asked for teachers at the school to help them.....

What are your thoughts on this? Obviously the safety of the driver and other passengers is paramount but don't think it is right that well behaved passengers who rely on the service should be put at a disadvantage. What do you think?

 

[NSEFAN]

A solution could be to only allow permitted students on the bus, with passes issued by the school on the basis that these can be revoked from problem students if bad behaviour is reported. The parents could even be billed for the damage their kid causes.

 

[Typhoon]

It was reported locally yesterday that the 432 school bus route (which runs to Wellsway school in Keynsham and is operated by South Gloucestershire Bus and Coach) is being withdrawn by the operator due to the behaviour of pupils. A link to the article can be found here:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/parents-furious-school-bus-company-1176006

What are your thoughts on this? Obviously the safety of the driver and other passengers is paramount but don't think it is right that well behaved passengers who rely on the service should be put at a disadvantage. What do you think?

Firstly, I cannot find 432 on Traveline so I guess it is probably restricted to school pupils (so no other passengers).

Secondly, is it a subsidised service - by the local council? In which case they need to be involved. If it is commercial - the company can withdraw the service (although rather short notice).

Thirdly, I guess no CCTV (otherwise the school staff could check this).

Fourthly, are school staff present at the arrival and departure of the bus? This is successful for some of the schools in the area where I live. Staff could check the state of the bus on arrival and try to get to the bottom of the misbehaviour. On departure the staff ensure the pupils get on the bus in an orderly fashion, which tends to last for some time before noise levels rise. This happened in the school I taught at, and I left the classroom almost twenty years ago. Schools where this does not happen - chaos.

Fifthly, there is some discrepancy between some of the comments; there is some distance between 'throwing things around and shouting and swearing' and 'abusing the driver and damaging the bus'. Any evidence of damage? Might be useful to wave at parents. I am more tempted to think it is all of these. A driver has a difficult enough job without having additional problems. Since I retired I have twice contacted (grammar) schools to complain about the behaviour of pupils. I have implied that if nothing is done and I saw a repetition, I would escalate the situation. Communication with governors, with the LEA (largely pointless, I know), letters to newspapers (implying it might damage their reputation), communication with OFSTED implying school behaviour was bad, and with the Department of Education. No repetition (to my knowledge).

How has it come to this? Did the school and parents know the full extent of the problem? Did it do anything (worthwhile)? Would the school or parents be prepared to pay for a conductor to check on behaviour and report back to the school and parents? (Probably only necessary for a short period.)

Postscript: How reliable is the newspaper as a source of accurate information.

 

[Cowley]

A solution could be to only allow permitted students on the bus, with passes issued by the school on the basis that these can be revoked from problem students if bad behaviour is reported. The parents could even be billed for the damage their kid causes.

That seems like a very sensible suggestion.
My son uses a school bus operated by a local firm. All pupils have passes and the drivers stick to their usual routes so they know who’s who.
If they’ve ever had a problem with any of the students then that student would lose his pass.
If students had set seats allocated, then it would be easier to pinpoint the ‘minority’ of trouble makers perhaps?
Unless it’s a full scale St Trinians style of anarchy...

 

[Typhoon]

Things are not quite so bad as was painted according to the comments on the school website (https://www.wellswayschool.com/news-and-events/) which states Representatives of the parents affected, the Bus Company and the Principal of Wellsway School are meeting tomorrow in an attempt to resolve this matter. Maybe they can take note of the constructive suggestions above!

If the worst comes to the worst there is a First Bristol Bath & The West bus that will get them there by 08:30 (according to Traveline, at least). Whether there is the capacity, though.

 

[enrag2000]

SGBC has got plenty of work without persisting with one service which is causing them grief. No matter whether it is commercial or contracted they will not lose any sleep over this. Schools and parents are frequently in denial over reports of unruly behaviour on school transport.

 

[overthewater]

If they're not setting the bus on fire / ripping the seats out and taking them with them / walking in line like a duck to sway the bus left to right its not that bad..

 

[Non Multi]

... walking in line like a duck to sway the bus left to right its not that bad..

To be fair that was very easy to do on a Wright Nimbus Renault S75. Merely pushing on the grab rails made the thing wobble!

 

[Cowley]

To be fair that was very easy to do on a Wright Nimbus Renault S75. Merely pushing on the grab rails made the thing wobble!

The top deck of a Bristol VR with all the kids moving from one side to the other in unison could get a bit of sway on at times.
Some drivers used to chuckle, but some definitely didn’t...

 

[GusB]

To be fair that was very easy to do on a Wright Nimbus Renault S75. Merely pushing on the grab rails made the thing wobble!

I've never had the pleasure of travelling on an S75, but I have experienced the S56 when my local company decided it was better to run minibuses at night. They did vibrate quite a bit.

The top deck of a Bristol VR with all the kids moving from one side to the other in unison could get a bit of sway on at times.
Some drivers used to chuckle, but some definitely didn’t...

I think I can count on one finger how many times I've travelled on a VR. In the early days of privatisation, Stagecoach moved a few ex-East Midland examples north and they certainly weren't the most pleasant of vehicles to travel on.

Anyhow, to bring the thread back on topic, it seems to me that the bus company concerned did their best to address the issues, and this was a case of the straw that broke the camel's back. Casting my mind back to when I travelled to school by bus, I remember a few times where fights would break out on the upper deck. It was a regular service bus, and some of the drivers were sufficiently fierce that the unruly kids fell into line fairly quickly. I remember one chap, all 5' of him, going upstairs to sort out a couple of dunderheids, and refusing to move until he had their names and addresses.

 

[Cowley]

Thanks Gus for tonight’s word of the day:
Dunderheids...

 

[GusB]

Thanks Gus for tonight’s word of the day:
Dunderheids...

You're welcome. The usual licensing fees apply

 

[philthetube]

The company also has a duty of care to it's drivers, exactly the same as any other business. As soon as a driver feels unsafe doing his job then he has the right to reefuse under health and safety law.

 

[Dhassell]

Gotta love the comments on the news articles...
"Simply take the offspring of the most 'outraged' parents off the bus - that'll solve the problem."

 

[overthewater]

Maybe there should get the police in? as in the case today in Fife..

https://twitter.com/CowdenbeathPol/status/961628842187214848

Providing reassurance to @StagecoachEScot & Bay Travel drivers following recent reports of anti social behaviour on school busses by a small minority of @Beath_HS students #OpPrevail #OpParamount #

 

[PeterC]

Inconvenient for the parents? Tough, that's how they brought the brats up to behave, their problem and nobody elses.

 

[alex397]

Inconvenient for the parents? Tough, that's how they brought the brats up to behave, their problem and nobody elses.

Agreed! Far too many parents think their children are little angels who can do no wrong.

Although I do think it is unfair for the well behaved children. I remember at school - it was often the good well behaved children who lost out because of the behaviour of the selfish morons. They were in the minority, but their voices are always the loudest. For example, I remember our school were banned from going into town at lunch because of anti-social behavior. It was only the minority of students who did this, but of course the ban included everyone! (I could see it from the schools perspective though).

Maybe there should get the police in? as in the case today in Fife..

https://twitter.com/CowdenbeathPol/status/961628842187214848

Its great the police are keeping the public informed of what they're doing (unlike my local force), but I wish they could spell buses properly!

 

[Smethwickian]

Agreed! Far too many parents think their children are little angels who can do no wrong.

Bad behaviour, obesity, children with no manners - it always seems to be someone else's fault as far as many parents these days are concerned. And as for some poor diddums possibly having to walk a few yards further to a bus route or having to get out of bed five minutes earlier, well, isn't that the end of the world.

Anyhow, back on topic, it seems that following the meeting mentioned above - between the school, some parents and the bus company - the service will continue, with a permit system along the lines suggested earlier in this thread. Pupils who do not abide by a code of conduct signed by them and their parents in order to receive a permit will be barred. Full details in the school newsletter today at www.wellswayschool.com/assets/uploads/files/Amonite/Ammonite%20879.pdf

The headteacher adds in the letter: "The 432 bus will have a regular driver, Javier, who wants to have a fresh start after recent events. He wants to drive his bus without any risk to the students’ safety. He really cares about the students getting to and from school safely. A simple and friendly 'hello' on boarding, and a 'thank you as the students alight would go a huge way in building a positive relationship between the students and the driver. All parties agreed that we must look forward. The threat of termination remains very real. I cannot stress enough that if further criminal damage occurs then the continuation of the service may be lost, for good. Whilst this historic damage is most likely the act of an individual student and your child may not be involved, I urge you to make your children aware that egging on others, laughing at social behaviour or provoking others to act can encourage and even incite such unacceptable behaviour. If there is a collective response from students against antisocial behaviour, confirming that these acts are not funny or acceptable then t hose committing them will be less likely to act in this way. I thank you all for your cooperation and continued support in reinforcing this message at home."

 

[philjo]

I recall in the late 1980s that there was a period when some of our local buses got somewhat rowdy on the 2 services immediately after school had finished. These were normal service buses. the bad behaviour soon stopped when one afternoon the headmaster boarded the bus at one of the stops en route! I think a couple of teachers would turn up at random on these services for a while.

 

[paddington]

I went to primary school in Hong Kong for a few years (an English-speaking school with most pupils being British). We, as in the parent-teacher association, had contracted a bus company to provide school buses, but the contract was terminated due to bad behaviour from a driver! (Being late and speeding)

 

[Typhoon]

The headteacher adds in the letter: "... Whilst this historic damage is most likely the act of an individual student and your child may not be involved, I urge you to make your children aware that egging on others, laughing at social behaviour or provoking others to act can encourage and even incite such unacceptable behaviour. If there is a collective response from students against antisocial behaviour, confirming that these acts are not funny or acceptable then t hose committing them will be less likely to act in this way. I thank you all for your cooperation and continued support in reinforcing this message at home."

I sincerely hope that he means 'laughing at anti-social behaviour'.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Inconvenient for the parents? Tough, that's how they brought the brats up to behave, their problem and nobody elses.

Indeed, any damage to our coaches and the pupil gets banned from travelling, then the parent has to try to get them in themselves. We don't cut the whole service off though.

I agree about parents and children denying vandalism, one little brat etched rude words into the seat back (plastic) and the school/parents denied it was the child, and suggested maybe the driver did it !!

 

[Ianno87]

Inconvenient for the parents? Tough, that's how they brought the brats up to behave, their problem and nobody elses.

What? Even the parents of those kids who've done nothing wrong?

 

[Mwanesh]

As a driver if the kids misbehave i usually stop the bus and and sit at a stop and say if you dont behave you will all be late for school.I remember one time when they were playing with the bell .It was like a 6mile journey It was freezing cold so i pulled into a bus stop and chucked them all off .Reason was i needed to check the bus for an electrical fault since the bell kept ringing.I spent 10 minutes upstairs , when i let them back on board they were all behaved.Everytime they saw me no problems

 

[alex397]

It is good to see the school being pro-active in helping to sort this out.

I remember at my secondary school (just about less than 10 years ago, would you believe), I got the bus back home. Every single day, everyone would just push on, and cause a lot of aggro. This was a public bus service, and I remember seeing how frightened some of the elderly bus passengers looked. I regularly got bruising on my arms because of the amount of pushing! There was one occasion when the driver had enough, and pretty much had a mental breakdown and called the police, before shouting at everyone, ending up in tears and driving the bus off 'not in service'. I really felt for him! I told my school about this (a strict Catholic school), and they couldn't care less, and said it was our problem and its 'just the way it is'. Obviously teachers don't use buses, and drive back home. I also emailed TfL and Arriva London about this - they also couldn't care less.

Hopefully this thread doesn't put people off using buses at school peak time! I would like to add that I often end up on buses at school kicking-out time in East Kent, and never have problems. They generally all behave really well, and most are really polite to other passengers and the driver. The only negative thing is how noisy it is, but that is to be expected.

 

[johnnychips]

I need to confess that once, in the 70s, we all piled onto the open platform of the back of a SELNEC ex-Stockport Titan 92 (192 these days), pushed the conductor off unbeknown to the driver and worked the bells all the way to Mersey Square. We saw the conductor arrive, furious, on the following service. This was a well-respected Grammar School.

So it’s not just a modern thing, and it’s not just ‘rough’ schools...am I forgiven?

 

[Typhoon]

... Obviously teachers don't use buses, and drive back home. ..

Careful! I was a teacher, then a college lecturer. I used the bus - and was not alone in this. It was amazing what you found out.

Hopefully this thread doesn't put people off using buses at school peak time! I would like to add that I often end up on buses at school kicking-out time in East Kent, and never have problems. They generally all behave really well, and most are really polite to other passengers and the driver. The only negative thing is how noisy it is, but that is to be expected.

I would largely concur with the quote about buses in East Kent. I think the presence of ordinary passengers helps the situation. On the two occasions when I experienced problems, I contacted the school. No repetition (so far) when I have been on those buses. I agree with the noise, particularly upstairs - I think some passengers expect 'library' silence so tut away - but, as stated before, I think that the presence of teachers when the buses load at the school helps as the pupils are usually quite quiet at that time (I can think of at least five schools that do this). I have also sometimes had to 'remind' pupils that I am in more need of a seat than their school bag but met no resistance and usually a 'sorry'. I also heard one girl (11-12, I would guess) ask two women (40s?) very politely to cease swearing! ​

 

[Cowley]

I need to confess that once, in the 70s, we all piled onto the open platform of the back of a SELNEC ex-Stockport Titan 92 (192 these days), pushed the conductor off unbeknown to the driver and worked the bells all the way to Mersey Square. We saw the conductor arrive, furious, on the following service. This was a well-respected Grammar School.

So it’s not just a modern thing, and it’s not just ‘rough’ schools...am I forgiven?

You wouldn’t be apart from the fact that I roared with laughter when I read this.

 

[185143]

You wouldn’t be apart from the fact that I roared with laughter when I read this.

You weren't the only one!

 

[Dai Corner]

A grammar school education clearly leads to more sophisticated misbehaviour!