Advance Ticket Types - When were they introduced?

[MG11]

On one of the (many) Virgin threads, someone made a reference to them being the first company to introduce Advance tickets. It made me wonder when they were introduced. I thought I'd make a thread specifically on this, so as not to go off topic.

The first I heard of them was around seven years ago, but I imagine they would have been around before that..the mid noughties perhaps? I recall one operator introduced a 'Q Jump' initiative, I assume that was to promote the tickets? I can't imagine many people going to the station weeks in advance to get their tickets before the internet became widely used though.

 

[pdq]

I'm sure I used Apex tickets when I was at uni in the early 90s. This thread has some other info regarding restrictions: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ticket-t-cs-v-current-advance-tickets.134432/

They were available up to a week in advance, and were available via telesales as well as at stations. The great thing at that time was that they included a reservation whereas a reserved seat with a normal ticket cost £1 (a more significant surcharge then).

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

The reason that Advance tickets (mostly) come with a separate coupon for the seat reservation is a legacy from when British Rail first introduced such fares. A block of seats was allocated for advance fares as this was the only way, at the time, of managing quotas across multiple sales outlets. So advance fares certainly existed before privatisation.

 

[gazthomas]

I guess Advance fairs are so popular with TOCS now is to avoid ORCATS raids

 

[Hassocks5489]

I've looked through my ticket collection and found the "Apex Tickets" box (!). The earliest dated "APEX RETURN" on the special APTIS stock (batch code BR No. 4599/47, with room for seat reservation details on the back) is dated 30th November 1989 for a Truro-London journey. By 1993, ticket types "SUPERADV RTN" and "SUPER APEX" had appeared. That said, the first printing of 4599/47 ticket stock was in 1987, so an earlier date of introduction is possible (perhaps for very specific uses).

I have photographic copies of all the weekly BR Sales Circulars from April 1986 onwards (or at least the ones that aren't missing from the National Archives at Kew - bizarrely there are about 3 folders that have gone walkabout!), so I'll quickly scan through to see what I can find. (Yes, I actually spent two days at Kew photographing nearly 2,500 pages of BR paperwork...! )

 

[Hassocks5489]

Here we go ... from BR Sales Circular 59, week ending 3rd October 1987:

LONDON APEX FROM GLASGOW
"InterCity will be introducing an experimental APEX return ticket for £35 from Glasgow to London on 4 October 1987. Like an airline "Advanced Purchase Excursion", APEX is a specially low fare for price-conscious leisure travellers who can plan their journey well in advance. It must be bought at least seven days in advance and is only available with a free Standard seat reservation for both outward and return journeys. Bookings are limited on the basis of the number of seats available on each train. Each reservation counts against a CRS quota."

The trial ran from 4th October to 21st December 1987 and 5th January to 28th March 1988. The £35 fare was available from any Strathclyde PTE station to London Euston, Watford Junction or Milton Keynes Central only, and only in that direction (i.e. no fares TO Scotland), on eight services from Glasgow Central and eight in the other direction (Monday-Saturday). One of these was the Harwich Parkeston Quay service which connected with the ferry, and this obviously didn't call at Euston! All direct Glasgow-London services on Sundays had APEX allocations, though.

Tickets could only be issued on the APTIS stock I mentioned above. As for Excess fares, travelling on a train other than that reserved meant that the passenger would be excessed to the appropriate Bluesaver or Whitesaver Return fare (remember those?). No refunds, no break of journey, no Railcard discounts, and everything else was pretty much what you'd expect from an Advance ticket.


So Advance fares were born in October 1987. Sadly we've missed the 30th anniversary!

 

[Hassocks5489]

I should add that the trial was deemed successful; and w.e.f. 30th January 1989, the scheme was extended as follows:

• Edinburgh Waverley/Haymarket/Dunbar to London Kings Cross (and to London Euston and Milton Keynes Central from Edinburgh or Haymarket) @ £39.00
• Perth/Gleneagles/Dunblane/Stirling/Larbert/Polmont/Falkirk/Dundee/Leuchars/Inverkeithing/Kirkcaldy to London Euston and London Kings Cross @ £39.00
• Inverness/Aviemore/Kingussie/Pitlochry/Aberdeen/Stonehaven/Montrose/Arbroath to London Euston and London Kings Cross @ £49.00
• Glasgow/Motherwell/Edinburgh Waverley/Haymarket to Manchester Victoria and Bolton @ £15.00
• Glasgow/Motherwell/Edinburgh Waverley/Haymarket to Wolverhampton/Sandwell & Dudley/Birmingham New Street/Birmingham International/Coventry @ £25.00

These were branded "London APEX", "Manchester APEX" and "West Midlands APEX".

Just for completeness, the very first mention of APEX I have found is in Sales Circular 43 (week ending 13th June 1987): "An APEX fare has been brought into operation between London and Belfast @ £45.00." No Railcards, no refunds, no change of journey, free reservations out and return, bookings only via Euston Telesales exactly 14 days in advance. A London-Dun Laoghaire APEX fare @ £39.90 was introduced w.e.f. 14th July 1987 with similar conditions, bookable at "main London termini only" and only for journeys on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays on the 0920 or 2145 Euston-Holyhead services. Surprisingly for an APEX, there was no requirement to travel back on a specific train.

 

[30907]

Going back even further, in the early 70s there were Super Save singles on the WCML which had much the same fare rules. I used them for my first Freedom of Scotland im 1973 - out on a Sunday diversion via the S and C, back overnight at Glasgow Fair weekend.
I remember the BO at Glasgow Central not being too happy at having to issue a reservation for such a cheap fare - reservations were not included in the price.
I don't think the experiment was extended to other routes, nor did it last very long.

Back to APEX fares, Railcard holders were offered something like a 10% discount after a couple of years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On one of the (many) Virgin threads, someone made a reference to them being the first company to introduce Advance tickets. It made me wonder when they were introduced. I thought I'd make a thread specifically on this, so as not to go off topic.

The first I heard of them was around seven years ago, but I imagine they would have been around before that..the mid noughties perhaps? I recall one operator introduced a 'Q Jump' initiative, I assume that was to promote the tickets? I can't imagine many people going to the station weeks in advance to get their tickets before the internet became widely used though.

Can I make it clear that I was stating that they were the first TOC to introduce:

1. First Class train-specific tickets at a discount
2. Advance tickets sold as singles with the intention of combining two for a return journey

BR had SuperApex/APEX/Advance Saver/SuperAdvance since the early 1990s if not earlier. All of these were, if I recall correctly, sold for Standard class and as returns only.

 

[Taunton]

Going back even further, in the early 70s there were Super Save singles on the WCML which had much the same fare rules. I used them for my first Freedom of Scotland im 1973 - out on a Sunday diversion via the S and C, back overnight at Glasgow Fair weekend ... I don't think the experiment was extended to other routes, nor did it last very long.

Yes, I recall when I was in Scotland in what must have been the first half of 1972, a former girlfriend (so it must have been a LONG time ago) returning to university in Edinburgh from Kent had got some sort of advance-purchase cheap single on Kings Cross to Edinburgh. In fact I can still recall the sarcastic comment I got when I queried the restricted nature of such a ticket about "my father is not made of money". Actually I later worked out that he was a Whitehall civil servant, and prominent in the Sevenoaks Season Ticket Travellers Association, or whatever it was called then, so likely got wind of such a low-key promotional fare. Might have even been an old days enthusiast ...

 

[AY1975]

Going back even further, in the early 70s there were Super Save singles on the WCML which had much the same fare rules. I used them for my first Freedom of Scotland im 1973 - out on a Sunday diversion via the S and C, back overnight at Glasgow Fair weekend.
I remember the BO at Glasgow Central not being too happy at having to issue a reservation for such a cheap fare - reservations were not included in the price.
I don't think the experiment was extended to other routes, nor did it last very long.

I also seem to recall that in the 1970s BR offered a kind of Advance ticket called an Economy Return. IIRC both the outward and the return journey had to be on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, and you had to book it at least a week in advance. Presumably this was aimed at encouraging mid-week off-peak travel to fill seats that would otherwise be carting fresh air around. Not sure if they were quota-controlled like the APEX tickets or present day Advances, though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does anyone know if Advance Saver/Superadvance were quota controlled, or was there just an advance purchase requirement?