Southern 313

[Fincra5]

I learn yesterday that Southern will be getting the class 313s from London Overground when they get they class 378s. They wont be working in london however they will be working the Brighton- Seaford and Brighton-West Worthing routes. The class 377s that they will replace are going to work in london to extend some services up to 10car (3+3+4).

Anyone fancy photoshoping the Southern Livery onto a 313?

 

[Evvy73]

Anything that builds up the train lengths on the main line is good news in my opinion (as a commuter from London Bridge to the South Coast! ). Maybe we will even get 12 carriages back on the 17:22 LBG - EBN service!

I haven't been on a 313 for a couple of years but from what I remember they were ok and would be ideal for relatively short-stopping services.

 

[Aictos]

Well, they certainly would need to be refurbished as the LOROL ones are of a even lower standard then the FCC ones!

Still no doubt, you will get complaints from local residents about the aging stock they're being forced to use...

Still the 313s are ideal for what they were designed for which was to carry people from A to B as quickly as possible and as many people as possible.

 

[87015]

Still no doubt, you will get complaints from local residents about the aging stock they're being forced to use...

Even if refurbished to FCC standards, 313s are quite a climb-down from 377s, especially as the Coastway 377s tend to be the Connex specified ones which are much nicer than the Southern spec ones with more comfy seats in 2+2 layout.

 

[johnb]

Even if refurbished to FCC standards, 313s are quite a climb-down from 377s, especially as the Coastway 377s tend to be the Connex specified ones which are much nicer than the Southern spec ones with more comfy seats in 2+2 layout.

The LO 313s have seats in 2+2 layout. Comfy...? Hmm.

 

[87015]

The LO 313s have seats in 2+2 layout. Comfy...? Hmm.

I meant the 377/3s are quite nice inside

 

[theblackwatch]

Anything that builds up the train lengths on the main line is good news in my opinion (as a commuter from London Bridge to the South Coast! ). Maybe we will even get 12 carriages back on the 17:22 LBG - EBN service!

It could be 442s as Southern are taking on some more of them. I'm currently sat on the 18:22 in the snug on an unrefurbed set, rather nice!

 

[heart-of-wessex]

EBN??

And also your on a 442...out of London Bridge...on an unrefurb??? surely not...say no please!

 

[theblackwatch]

EBN??

And also your on a 442...out of London Bridge...on an unrefurb??? surely not...say no please!

The 18.22 ex London Bridge is booked a pair of 442s. Tonight it is 2418 and 2402 on it. It's even do-able on a Travelcard!

 

[Fincra5]

It could be 442s as Southern are taking on some more of them. I'm currently sat on the 18:22 in the snug on an unrefurbed set, rather nice!

I was also informed that southern will be using a couple of 442 for brighton express services. They will have the GATWICK removed from the name so will just be EXPRESS .

Also i think the 313s will bring a bit more valiation to stock in the southern region. They will not be replacing all the 377s as they will still do the longer routes along the coastways to hasting and beyond worthing. And the replace trains will be of equal length 3cars. (which are the ones with connex spec seating . )
I recon southern will do a good refurb of the trains as they did with the 455s but they wont be having high density seating (apparently). And tbh i dont know how many people other than train enhusiats will know of class 313s age after a refurb

 

[MCR247]

I was also informed that southern will be using a couple of 442 for brighton express services. They will have the GATWICK removed from the name so will just be EXPRESS .

Also i think the 313s will bring a bit more valiation to stock in the southern region. They will not be replacing all the 377s as they will still do the longer routes along the coastways to hasting and beyond worthing.
I recon southern will do a good refurb of the trains as they did with the 455s but they wont be having high density seating (apparently). And tbh i dont know how many people other than train enhusiats will know of class 313s age after a refurb

you sure youre not on about the extended GatExs to Brighton in the peaks

 

[Fincra5]

you sure youre not on about the extended GatExs to Brighton in the peaks

nope. They will be brighton express services calling at the usual east croyden, clapham junction and london victoria.

tbh it would be quite a nice way to travel.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

damn you blackwatch!! :P

Would kill to get an un-refurb again! Bet it looks random at LB

 

[Aictos]

Brighton Express hey, must give them a go when they start running!

 

[fgwrich]

It could be 442s as Southern are taking on some more of them. I'm currently sat on the 18:22 in the snug on an unrefurbed set, rather nice!

WOW...didnt actually think there was any of the unrefurbished sets left in service...rather nice arnt they especialy when compared to the refurbished 442 sets...

Even if refurbished to FCC standards, 313s are quite a climb-down from 377s, especially as the Coastway 377s tend to be the Connex specified ones which are much nicer than the Southern spec ones with more comfy seats in 2+2 layout.

not only that but dont forget the 377's have toilets on board, whereas a 313 roughly half the time is a mooving toilet...still...shall be interesting to find out what Southern have planned internally and externally...preferably anything better than the South Eastern units...

 

[Fincra5]

Southern did quite a good job on the class 455 refurbishment. But for a 313 they seating shouldn't be high density, especially seeing as they are working Brighton to Seaford and West Worthing.

Btw anyone fancy a go at photoshopping the souther livery onto a class 313? I expect that it will be basically the same as the class 455s with similar lighting.

 

[Electrostar]

Wouldn't it be more cost-effective for Southern to use the surplus 508s from its sister franchise, Southeastern, which are currently kept in warm store?

I also wonder if Southern will be closely looking at the reaction to the tube-style seating on LO's new 378s, especially those venturing south on the East London Line Extension, to see if that's the way forward for the next refurbishment of the 455s and 456s?

 

[Fincra5]

Wouldn't it be more cost-effective for Southern to use the surplus 508s from its sister franchise, Southeastern, which are currently kept in warm store?

I also wonder if Southern will be closely looking at the reaction to the tube-style seating on LO's new 378s, especially those venturing south on the East London Line Extension, to see if that's the way forward for the next refurbishment of the 455s and 456s?

Nah i dnt think tube style is that appropraite for the class 455 and 456s largely because they work on longer suburban routes. The class 378 run in more central london which is very busy most of the day. Where as the suburban trains arent after rush hours.

 

[fgwrich]

Wouldn't it be more cost-effective for Southern to use the surplus 508s from its sister franchise, Southeastern, which are currently kept in warm store?

I also wonder if Southern will be closely looking at the reaction to the tube-style seating on LO's new 378s, especially those venturing south on the East London Line Extension, to see if that's the way forward for the next refurbishment of the 455s and 456s?

Ermmm I Really hope not...though i think Southern may take a look at SWT's 455's, which do have 3+2 Seating, the same as there desiros but harder, and a priority area which does have facing seats, though this only takes up 1 window bay in each - i think-coach...

Though i have heard that Southern are looking to reconfigue there internal layout in the 455 refurbishement so who knows:roll:

Also...When the 313's arrive itll be good bye to the ex Connex 377's...as correct me if im wrong, but i think there destined for the London Commuter services aswell...

One thing though...Why dont Southern consider using the 313's in the london area rather than Brighton & the South Coastway? which in itself Brighton to Eastbourne/Sleaford/Worthing is quite some distance...Just hope they dont get all the way to Portstmouth & Sotton Central...

 

[MCR247]

Its not yet confirmed is it?

 

[Fincra5]

Its not yet confirmed is it?

Well andy at my model railway club, who works in southern in the operations sector (i think ) says that southern will be recieving the class 313s so the coastway class 377s can be used to strengthen the london services to 10car. Its all part of southern's new contract agreement with DFT.

 

[johnb]

Ermmm I Really hope not...though i think Southern may take a look at SWT's 455's, which do have 3+2 Seating, the same as there desiros but harder, and a priority area which does have facing seats, though this only takes up 1 window bay in each - i think-coach...

Though i have heard that Southern are looking to reconfigue there internal layout in the 455 refurbishement so who knows:roll:

Not sure you're quite right here.

The SWT refurbed 455s are 2+2, with similar seats to the 2+3 450s but a wider aisle.

The SN 455s have already been refurbed and have had 377-style seats installed in 2+3 layout.

It's possible that SN are considering removing the 3rd (or 5th, depending on how you look at it) seat from the already-refurbed 455s, but I don't think that's been reported anyway.

One thing though...Why dont Southern consider using the 313's in the london area rather than Brighton & the South Coastway? which in itself Brighton to Eastbourne/Sleaford/Worthing is quite some distance...Just hope they dont get all the way to Portstmouth & Sotton Central...

I suspect because they're not expected to be as reliable as the 455s/377s, and hence it makes more sense to use them on lines where a breakdown will do less harm (rather than failing at London Bridge in the peak...)

 

[Fincra5]

Also like i said because they want to use the class 377s from the coastway to strenghten serverice in london to 10car. Its only the 3car coastway services that will be replaced by class 313s. Brighton-seaford and Brighton-West Worthing.

 

[class377man]

Its only the 3car coastway services that will be replaced by class 313s. Brighton-seaford and Brighton-West Worthing.

377/3s are used very regularly, more often than not in fact, from Brighton and Littlehampton to Bognor, Portsmouth and Southampton.

 

[thefab444]

Indeed, speaking from experience, the majority of the Southampton - Brighton services produce 377/3s, although 377/1s and more annoyingly 377/4s are seen also.

 

[Bush]

Used to be an Apprentice at Lovers Walk (Now a fitter with FGW @ Exeter) still speak to some of me mates there, and there has been talk of 313's for The Coastway's. The Brighton to Seaford and Brighton to West Worthing / Littlehamptons are pretty much self contained diagrams with journey times of less than 40 mins. So wouldn't be hard to introduce.

 

[paul1609]

Used to be an Apprentice at Lovers Walk (Now a fitter with FGW @ Exeter) still speak to some of me mates there, and there has been talk of 313's for The Coastway's. The Brighton to Seaford and Brighton to West Worthing / Littlehamptons are pretty much self contained diagrams with journey times of less than 40 mins. So wouldn't be hard to introduce.

The Brighton to littlehampton service was withdrawn 2 years ago when the new coastway timetable was introduced(except a few peak workings. Im told that the plan is still just a possibility but that if it goes ahead the 313s wont go West of west Worthing as they cant keep to time and theres a fear if they are regularly used on the fast coastway services they will go bang. I dont think they have ever been used at 70/75 mph on dc.

 

[87015]

313s on just Seaford/Hove/Worthing will release only about ten 377s total though won't it? That doesn't form up many 3+3+4 10-car suburban sets at Selhurst.

 

[507 001]

Wouldn't it be more cost-effective for Southern to use the surplus 508s from its sister franchise, Southeastern, which are currently kept in warm store?

No, because theyre suppose to be coming up north back to merseyrail,
could change though

 

[Techniquest]

WOW...didnt actually think there was any of the unrefurbished sets left in service...rather nice arnt they especialy when compared to the refurbished 442 sets...

Ooh, one must disagree...

I got the opportunity to travel on 4422419 last Friday (4422414 I think was paired with it) on the 1822 London Bridge to Eastbourne, as far as East Croydon, and I shocked myself when I came up with a one-line summary:

I liked it.

Which, coming from someone who despised the 442s with a fiery passion when they were with SWT, is a huge statement! What I thought of them:

Nice seats, decent bit of room in the gangway, pleasant interior generally and the journey was nice and fast. Much better than my journies on the class with SWT.

I was actually gutted to get off at East Croydon!

Re: Comfortable 377s, I agree with 87015 on that topic as the 377/3s have the best seats of all! 313s would be a fair bit of a step-down from 377s in that respect! Still, they may prove to be much better after a darn fine refurb.