Help! Intent to avoid fare to settle out of court?

[najaB]

What will be the max cost if it goes to court?

In theory, the fine could be anything up to £1000. Then there would still be the fare, costs, victim surcharge, etc. on top of that.

 

[Nunur]

In theory, the fine could be anything up to £1000. Then there would still be the fare, costs, victim surcharge, etc. on top of that.

Do you think they would agree to my letter to withdraw the court case?

 

[najaB]

Do you think they would agree to my letter to withdraw the court case?

It's impossible to say.

 

[swt_passenger]

Do you think they would agree to my letter to withdraw the court case?

Settling out of court is only an option for the aggrieved party. It isn’t something you really have any control over.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The OP has told the Conductor he lost his ticket and then given her his Birmingham to Portsmouth ticket presumably after saying he lost his ticket. So he has tried to pull a "fast one" by his actions irrespective of the fare difference between Wolves and Brum. He's assumed it didn't matter getting on at Wolves much like the people who decide to short fare when faced with barriers going into regional cities from non barriered stations.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Been thinking. In this situation a zero excess to allow travel from Wolverhampton would be issued prior to travel, had the OP gone to the ticket office. A zero excess has, indeed, been issued. The OP has, in their possession, proof the correct fare has been paid: the original ticket and the zero excess.

 

[jumble]

First some good news: By issuing a zero-fare excess and allowing you to travel on the return portion of the ticket, XC have accepted that you had a valid ticket for the Birmingham to Portsmouth Harbour potion of your journey. So the maximum fare due is a Wolverhampton to Birmingham stations Anytime Return.

However, you are still guilty of a Byelaw 18 offence and potentially guilty of a Regulation of Railways Act § 5 offence in respect of the Wolverhampton to Birmingham portion of your journey.

I suggest that you write back to TIL admitting that while you had a valid ticket from Birmingham to Portsmouth, you didn't have one from Wolverhampton to Birmingham, offer to pay the fare due and their costs and commit to always buying before boarding in future.

Forgive my ignorance but I would have thought that once a zero excess has been issued this would suggest to me that the railway have now accepted that they have recieved the correct fare for the journey from Wolverhampton to Portsmouth ( which was the same as the journey the OP made ) or am I totally off piste ?
How this accords with their statement in their second letter that the OP has paid less for his journey than he should have done is also strange in the light of this.

I wonder if if the OP had simply humbly offered to pay the fare at the time he would have recieved the excess and happily gone on his way but that TIL quite reasonably felt that if the was going to tell porkies about lost tickets he should be given a hard time as he is wasting their staffs time.

( even so I do pragramatically agree that with NajaB offering to pay the fare form Wolves or Brum whether due or not would be prudent as this may just be enough to close the matter and if they did you could also write after they have closed it and make my point later and ask for a refund.)

I had a dillema in Brum when we travelled from London on the 25 p Chiltern advance tickets in 2012 when the mk3s were launched to Birmingham Moor st
We wanted to return from Snow Hill so we would get a seat as we were there early.
I worried about the implications of this until reassured by both the ticket office and the gate attendant that no one was going to care but I took both their names just in case !
Information is the power of the forum
Regards
Jumble

 

[najaB]

Forgive my ignorance but I would have thought that once a zero excess has been issued this would suggest to me that the railway have now accepted that they have recieved the correct fare for the journey from Wolverhampton to Portsmouth ( which was the same as the journey the OP made ) or am I totally off piste ?

No, the zero-fare excess was issued to allow the OP to continue their journey since the revenue inspector confiscated the original ticket as evidence.

 

[gray1404]

Should the inspector have done that? The excess says only valid with ticket XXXX - so for the excess to be valid both tickets must be shown. (the original with the excess)

 

[ainsworth74]

Should the inspector have done that? The excess says only valid with ticket XXXX - so for the excess to be valid both tickets must be shown. (the original with the excess)

They've probably hit the wrong button or it's sloppy programming of the ticket issuing system.

It is correct to issue a zero-fare excess when a ticket is being withdrawn for investigation. How else is a passenger supposed to complete their journey?

 

[gray1404]

I'm just thinking that the customer could have ran into further problems down the line if unable to produce both tickets on request.

OP have you written back to TIL yet? Do you need your second letter proof reading?

 

[Nunur]

OP have you written back to TIL yet? Do you need your second letter proof reading?

Yes I have written back to them yesterday. Basically, what I had written is a request of a withdrawal of the court case and just the same content of my first letter. Thank you for offering.

 

[gray1404]

OK - there is nothing more you can do for now then. Well done for getting this far, some people don't bother to engage and you have. When you hear back from them do post on here straight away for advise on get steps. If they send you a court summons it is still not impossible to have the case withdrawn. I am NOT saying for a moment that is going to happen at this point, but what I am saying is that there is still opportunities to get this sorted before court.

 

[jrh2254]

You should be even more embarrassed: it's the same price from Wiolverhampton as it is from Birmingham.

Oops.

Are you sure the fare from Wolverhampton to Portsmouth Harbour is the same as Birmingham NS to Portsmouth Harbour?
Current fares suggest £61.85 versus £57.90
If the OP had gone to the Wolverhampton booking office before, he would have had to pay a small excess, and would not have been issued with a zero excess?

 

[MG11]

Hi the recent letter that I received was dated January 4th and I have 14 days to respond and I know it’s late to respond but I just want advise on how I can settle the matter out of court. These are the letters that I’ve received and responded.View attachment 41684View attachment 41685 View attachment 41683 I shamefully admit that I did intent to avoid payment on that day. I was from Wolverhampton going to Portsmouth harbour. But I only paid for the ticket from Birmingham new street to Portsmouth harbour. It’s my first time ever doing this kind of thing and I regret it and I promise myself I will never do it again. I just wanted advice on how I might be able to settle this out of court? And how I should have written to the recent letter in response?

What you have done is very serious and deliberate fare evasion results in more serious punishments than accidental Byelaw breaches. In your response, you should, stick to the facts, apologise (very important), assure the prosecutions department that it will NOT happen again and offer to settle the issue out of court with any ammount they deem appropriate.

 

[reb0118]

A general point. For my TOC we used to issue zero fared excess tickets for ticket irregularities & to passengers with no means to pay. The excess should be endorsed "original ticket xxxxx withdrawn for enquiry" or as appropriate. We no longer do so but simply override the fare of the SDS to zero and issue in conjunction with a Ticket Irregularity Form.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Are you sure the fare from Wolverhampton to Portsmouth Harbour is the same as Birmingham NS to Portsmouth Harbour?

Oops, mea culpa.

Ignore what I said. As you were.

 

[Sprinter153]

A general point. For my TOC we used to issue zero fared excess tickets for ticket irregularities & to passengers with no means to pay. The excess should be endorsed "original ticket xxxxx withdrawn for enquiry" or as appropriate. We no longer do so but simply override the fare of the SDS to zero and issue in conjunction with a Ticket Irregularity Form.

Interesting, we were told that we should never use the Fare Override button because RDG require the TOC to cover the cost of the fare that has been overridden. Our policy states a manual or CCST zero fare excess or authority to travel should be issued endorsed as you say.

 

[Haywain]

Interesting, we were told that we should never use the Fare Override button because RDG require the TOC to cover the cost of the fare that has been overridden. Our policy states a manual or CCST zero fare excess or authority to travel should be issued endorsed as you say.

I agree that use of fare override would be expected to cause settlement problems.

 

[Nunur]

Received this letter yesterday.

I guess they really want to take it to court. Anything else I can try to make them not to proceed to court? If not, can anyone tell me what to expect next?

 

[gray1404]

If it was to go to court then it may still be possible to reach an out of court settlement on the day. This could possibly be achieved by either yourself, or your representative, approaching the prosecution acting for Cross Country before the case is called.

 

[najaB]

I guess they really want to take it to court. Anything else I can try to make them not to proceed to court?

If this letter ws from TIL then your case will be passed back to the TOC for issuance of summons. So you have one more chance for this to be dealt with by the TOC, and then - presuming you don't plead guilty when the summons is received - @gray1404 is correct about approaching the prosecutor on the day.

 

[Nunur]

Yes this letter is from TIL. Do I write to TOC or do I have to wait for a letter from TOC first to appeal? I don’t have any representative. How do I convince them to settle it out of court? If I were to plead guilty, will it affect my student visa?

 

[najaB]

If I were to plead guilty, will it affect my student visa?

It shouldn't do but for matters like that you're best speaking with an immigration advisor.

 

[Nunur]

Hello, just received a letter dated 8th March today. Was wondering what this mean? Is the letter saying I should pay the amount stated and it is settled out of court? Thanks

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes, they're offering to settle for £162.50 so if you sign the letter, return it to them and then make the above payment the matter will be resolved.

 

[gray1404]

Yes, they're offering to settle for £162.50 so if you sign the letter, return it to them and then make the above payment the matter will be resolved.

This ^^^^

What do you want to do? Accept this or go to court?

It looks like you need to sign the document and return it. Then call me make payment once they have received the document.

 

[najaB]

Was wondering what this mean? Is the letter saying I should pay the amount stated and it is settled out of court?

Yes. That is exactly what it is saying. You have until March 22nd to get the signed letter back to them and contact them for payment. I wouldn't leave it past Monday if I were in your position!