Almost stranded at Reading

[whistler114]

On Tuesday evening I was travelling from Bristol to Woking. I took the 22:01 service from Bristol Parkway, expecting to arrive into Reading at 23:00 and then catch the 23:12 to Virginia Water before taking a 3rd and final train to Woking.

A few miles outside of Reading, I note that the train had slowed. It continued to crawl along and at 23:11 the train manager made an announcement "apologies for the delay etc." and we eventually arrive at 23:13. I tried to find the train manager but it was too late - he was at the other end of the train and there was little he could do for me now.

The 23:12 had already departed and according to the national rail app on my phone there were no more trains to Woking that night. I approached a member of staff at the gate and explained what had just happened, he replied "go to Basingstoke, 23:34". Fortunately, I had already checked the trains from Basingstoke to Woking at the last one would leave at 23:39, thus leaving me stranded in Basingstoke. I pointed this out to him and he sort of nodded. I asked him what I should do instead and he half stared blankly and half shrugged, so I went to the front of the station to ask someone else.

The staff at the front were nice but they suggested going to Virginia Water before quickly realising that there would be no connecting train. Then they advised me to take the 23:34 to Guildford and then get a taxi. I had not been in this situation before so I did not realise at the time that they are supposed to actively help passengers who are unable to get to their destination if the reason is due to delays or cancellation, such as paying for a taxi. I ended up paying £22 for a taxi from Guildford to Woking and since I did not get a receipt I suppose this money is now lost.

Other than taking an earlier service, what should I do in future? Which member of staff should accept responsibility for the delay and subsequent missed connection? Surely the train manager cannot simply offer an empty "sorry for the delay" announcement at that time of night without realising that some passengers are almost certainly going to miss their connections and end up stranded. Should I ask for the station manager at Reading?

Thank you in advance.

 

[najaB]

Other than taking an earlier service, what should I do in future? Which member of staff should accept responsibility for the delay and subsequent missed connection? Surely the train manager cannot simply offer an empty "sorry for the delay" announcement at that time of night without realising that some passengers are almost certainly going to miss their connections and end up stranded. Should I ask for the station manager at Reading?

That's a good idea in that kind of situation.

 

[gray1404]

You need to make a formal complaint both to the GWR for the delay to your journey and their failure to make arrangements to get you to your destination. You also need to complain to the company responsible for sorting out stranded customers at Reading station. GWR also run Reading station so you can do this in one complaint. If they try to fob you off escalate the complaint.

 

[Mag_seven]

GWR also run Reading station

Not any more they don't - its now a Network Rail Managed station.

 

[221129]

GWR also run Reading station so you can do this in one complaint. If they try to fob you off escalate the complaint.

Reading is a Network Rail Station.

 

[gray1404]

My apologies. Then it does get a little complicated. I had an issue at Liverpool Lime Street when I was left stranded. Complained to Network Rail, who said that although they manage the station Northern is the train company responsible for taking care of stranded passengers. Northern said that London Midland were responsible as it was their train that caused me to be stranded. London Midland said that Northern should have provided a taxi. In the end London Midland refunded the taxi as it was their train that caused it - but not before they refused and I had to complain to a Manager. I complained to Transport Focus because of the lack of assurances that it will not happen again and also inability to clarify who was responsible. Transport Focus didn't understand the complaint and said there was nothing further they could do as the taxi had been refunded and delay repay had been paid out.

So I guess the next step, in addition to complaining to GWR (as they operate the service to Reading and was the company that caused the delay to your journey) is to establish who is responsible for dealing with stranded customers at Reading station. It is not acceptable that staff didn't know and you were passed around a bit. It is arguable though that you need to travel as far as possible by rail, in your case it looks like it was as far as Guildford, then get a taxi paid for by the railway company. So it would be for staff at Guildford to arrange that taxi. Nevertheless the staff at Reading should have made preliminary arrangements for that (such as phoning ahead).

Did you have to phone a private hire taxi company or did you get a hackney? The private hire company may still be willing to provide a receipt as they would have a record of the journey. There is certainly no harm in asking GWR for a refund, plus any delay compensation you may be entitled to. What was the total delay to your journey (based on your arrival time in Woking)?

 

[robbeech]

It’s a difficult situation but at stations like Reading there should NEVER be scenarios like this. There are staff there that should be able to help. You should definitely write a polite letter / email to GWR telling them what happened. They were responsible for the missed connection. You should include the combination of trains and taxis and mention associated costs.
You should also include the time you got to your destination station and claim delay repay based upon that. If you can’t remember how long you had to wait for a taxi and what time you got home then have a read through the GWR delay repay information and see if that jogs your memory.

Related,
I have had issues with a combination of Hull Trains 2030 service and the connecting Northern service to Worksop and connecting EMT (last train) to Whitwell on a few occasions.This Hull Trains Service is often delayed (not necessarily their fault) and it misses the Worksop connection. Hull trains refuse to help other than say get the next Worksop train and sort onward connections at Worksop. Sadly, Worksop is unstaffed at that time of day and Northern refuse to help with a taxi as they haven’t contributed towards the delay so aren’t at fault.
Ok so a taxi is £12, but what if someone couldn’t afford that?

 

[gray1404]

Exactly. If the taxi was £1, £12 or £120 it doesn't matter, and it wouldn't matter if a multimillionaire was left stranded, the railway has a contractual duty to get customers to their destination and they have failed in that regard.

 

[Nick66]

What is the definition of "destination" in such cases? I once had a delay of over 90 minutes on a VTEC train into KGX and arrived too late to catch a tube to Victoria for my connection - the last train would have gone from there anywhere. The TM was asking people if they had connections and was arranging taxis. I asked about my situation and he asked if I had a through ticket. I didn't as I have a Travelcard on Oyster. He said I would need to speak to station staff and he wasn't sure. On arrival the station staff were swamped so I just got into a taxi on the basis that the fare would be less than the Delay Repay refund so I wasn't too bothered, I jusy wanted to get home. Would I have had a right to onward transport in such a situation? I would presume my contract with VTEC would end at KGX, or does mixing a paper ticket with a Travelcard on Oyster amount to split ticketing for a single journey?

 

[najaB]

I would presume my contract with VTEC would end at KGX, or does mixing a paper ticket with a Travelcard on Oyster amount to split ticketing for a single journey?

This is a contentious point - some people argue that it does, others say it does not. The fact that you had a travelcard (as opposed to intending to use PAYG) strengthens your case for it counting as a split ticket.

 

[Nick66]

This is a contentious point - some people argue that it does, others say it does not. The fact that you had a travelcard (as opposed to intending to use PAYG) strengthens your case for it counting as a split ticket.

Interesting, I'll bear that in mind if it happens again. Seeing as how it was 11.30 on a Sunday evening and I wouldn't be out of pocket, I decided just to get home as quickly as possible.

 

[bb21]

This is a contentious point - some people argue that it does, others say it does not. The fact that you had a travelcard (as opposed to intending to use PAYG) strengthens your case for it counting as a split ticket.

There is no argument. If the Travelcard constitutes a valid ticket covering part of a split journey then it is no different to holding a point to point ticket.

 

[najaB]

There is no argument. If the Travelcard constitutes a valid ticket covering part of a split journey then it is no different to holding a point to point ticket.

I think so too, but others' opinions differ (e.g. some TOCs).

 

[Hadders]

This is quite straightforward. Looking at the National Rail Conditions of Travel condition 14 tells us that we may use a combination of two or more Tickets to make a journey.

Condition 28 then tells us

28.1 If disruption prevents you from completing the journey shown on your Ticket, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary provide overnight accommodation for you.

 

[furlong]

Disappointing. At Reading station late at night, all staff should have known to refer you to the nearest person with a radio to call for the duty station manager who would have worked out a solution for you (e.g. getting a taxi authorised if that was the only option).

 

[furlong]

If the advice was to go to Guildford, then you should have located the duty manager there to arrange the taxi (or Reading might have called ahead) and you should have been told that.

 

[gray1404]

In the latter case mentioned, the Train Manager as he was arranging taxis for other people should also have arranged one for you. You had through tickets to your final destination. Yet another example of VTEC refusing to accept what the National Rail Conditions of Travel says, that is that you can use more then one ticket to complete your journey.

Delay Repay is compensation paid (based on the value of your tickets and the length of the delay) for the delay to your journey. Costs of taxis to your destination is a separate matter. So in fact, you were out of pocket of the cost of the taxi regardless if delay repay was claimed or not. I also assume that you only claimed delay repay for one of your split tickets and not the total cost of the two (or more)? If so, you lost out of further delay repay there.

I do not see what is complicated when it comes to staff on the ground applying the rules. Simplly: 1. a customer should not be left stranded and they should get to their destination. When this happens it should be a straight forward process of sorting out a taxi and not the current "pass the book - go and speak to this persons and that person" situation. and 2) the National Rail Conditions of Travel allow a customer to use one or more ticket to complete their journey. 3) Therefore, delay repay, which forms the basis of the contract formed, should be based on the total amount of all the tickets combined.

The status quo of the industry dragging their heals on the floor refusing to accept and apply the rules is pathetic.

 

[JN114]

Per others advice here; GWR definitely should have been more helpful - Reading station staff are normally much better than described so it’s disappointing in that regard.

Contact GWR; explain what has happened. Include copies/scans of tickets. As you say - without taxi receipt there’s a chance that you’re going to end up out of pocket, however I would hope that a goodwill gesture would be made. A caveat to note is that GWR do not operate Delay Repay - they have an older compensation regime, which for High Speed/Long Distance services only kicks in if you’ve been delayed by over an hour. Mention how late taking a taxi has actually made you at your destination station.

 

[IanXC]

My apologies. Then it does get a little complicated. I had an issue at Liverpool Lime Street when I was left stranded. Complained to Network Rail, who said that although they manage the station Northern is the train company responsible for taking care of stranded passengers. Northern said that London Midland were responsible as it was their train that caused me to be stranded. London Midland said that Northern should have provided a taxi. In the end London Midland refunded the taxi as it was their train that caused it - but not before they refused and I had to complain to a Manager.

Its a bit of a can of worms, but, the principle is that the TOC whose train you were delayed on is responsible for paying for replacement transport, and the TOC who operate the station you become stranded at is responsible for dealing with you and liaising with the delaying TOC. Network Rail managed stations are different, in that either NR or one/more of the operating TOCs take responsibility. Its not clear from your post whether the complaints were at the time or after the fact, but assuming Northern are the only TOC to have that responsibility at Liverpool Lime Street, then they were responsible for getting contacting London Midland and requesting they arrange a Taxi, or (exceptionally) agreeing to organise one on LM's behalf.

I have had issues with a combination of Hull Trains 2030 service and the connecting Northern service to Worksop and connecting EMT (last train) to Whitwell on a few occasions.This Hull Trains Service is often delayed (not necessarily their fault) and it misses the Worksop connection. Hull trains refuse to help other than say get the next Worksop train and sort onward connections at Worksop. Sadly, Worksop is unstaffed at that time of day and Northern refuse to help with a taxi as they haven’t contributed towards the delay so aren’t at fault.
Ok so a taxi is £12, but what if someone couldn’t afford that?

Definitely Hull Trains' responsibility, but either VTEC at Retford, or Northern at Worksop are responsible for arranging this for you as above.

 

[philthetube]

I got caught at Reading around 6 months ago, my train was cancelled and was going to miss my last train the Watford, I spoke to staff and they had me met at Paddington by staff there who had a taxi for me to get to Watford within 5 mins. I got home before my train

 

[_toommm_]

Calling the TOC directly is another method you could employ - I was stranded at Manchester Vic on Xmas Eve as Northern had cancelled my train, but the station supervisor said 'there is no 21:12 train'. After faffing about for 45 mins I called Northern directly and the lady admitted the problem and called a taxi with them paying for it upfront.

One little titbit is always try and refer to the NRCoT (national rail conditions of travel), and if possible, the relevant portion (like the portion someone posted above me about split ticketing). This kind of knowledge instantly gives credibility to both yourself and the overall story

 

[gray1404]

I agree regarding referring to the official documentation. It is hard to call train companies direct in these sort of situations. Customers do not have access to the control centre number so their usual method of contact is via customer service (such as the Northern Customer Experience Centre cited above). Northern is in a minority in having their call centre open 24 hours a day - even when their trains are no longer running. A customer is more likely to be in the sort of situation described late at night, after the last service has departed, and long after customer service has closed. That is why it is so important that staff on the ground do that right thing by making the arrangements for onward travel (e.g. taxi) and calling the control centre if they don't quite know what to do and NOT make things up thus leaving the customer stranded.

 

[JamesRowden]

What is the definition of "destination" in such cases? I once had a delay of over 90 minutes on a VTEC train into KGX and arrived too late to catch a tube to Victoria for my connection - the last train would have gone from there anywhere. The TM was asking people if they had connections and was arranging taxis. I asked about my situation and he asked if I had a through ticket. I didn't as I have a Travelcard on Oyster. He said I would need to speak to station staff and he wasn't sure. On arrival the station staff were swamped so I just got into a taxi on the basis that the fare would be less than the Delay Repay refund so I wasn't too bothered, I jusy wanted to get home. Would I have had a right to onward transport in such a situation? I would presume my contract with VTEC would end at KGX, or does mixing a paper ticket with a Travelcard on Oyster amount to split ticketing for a single journey?

Was your final destination in London? Would you have been able to get home using the validity of your travelcard on night buses?

 

[Marton]

I sometimes use (and have done through BR, GNER, NatEx, DOR & VTEC) the late arrivals at KX from the north east and the printed timetables always used to have a warning that the c2330 arrival (for a long time the last one) would not guarantee underground connections.

As I don’t need the tube and don’t use the printed timetables now I just looked on line and the PDF there doesn’t have the warning any more.

Seems that connections may now be “guaranteed”.

 

[gray1404]

As always, the customer must ensure when travelling on a through ticket (or a combination of tickets covering their overall journey) that they allow enough connection time between trains then, if the railway messes up, they are responsible for getting them to their destination. Only if the minimum connections are not adhered to is it invalid. What the railway cannot do is pick a service (or services) past a certain time and declare any itinerary invalid for the purposes of connections just because it suits them.