Electostars vs desiros

[tsr]

Bearing in mind the 'ironing boards' for the passengers on the Thameslink 700s, I had a few words with a driver while waiting on the platform at Blackfriars Station and asked him if the driving seats were comfortable. He said they were initially, but the wraparound design meant that there was no opportunity to change position. On a two-and-a-half-hour Bedford-to-Brighton run that got uncomfortable because of the lack of movement. Is there more wriggle room in an Electrostar?

There’s a fair amount of wriggle room on most Electrostar driver’s seats, but I find the cab can be a bit awkward due to positioning of stuff around the gangway door equipment (where fitted). 700s do at least have a nicer cab to walk around if you’re waiting at a station for a few moments.

... but Tonbridge to Redhill non-stop at line speed felt like the train might detail at some point.

Particularly Bletchingley Tunnel, between Nutfield and Godstone, I guess? Some of the worst track I’ve been down. Even Holmwood-Warnham doesn’t touch it now!

Finally, can train crew for any of the above fleets tell me if their units suffer from ACU AC & DC faults resulting in arctic conditions and reduced, duller lighting?

Can’t necessarily comment for all the various Desiros, but it’s a well-known fault on Electrostars.

On the subject of air conditioning, from my experience it's a bit more reliable on Desiros than on Electrostars.

Seems to be about right. I have less faith in Desiros managing to warm up a carriage, though!

 

[pompeyfan]

Particularly Bletchingley Tunnel, between Nutfield and Godstone, I guess? Some of the worst track I’ve been down. Even Holmwood-Warnham doesn’t touch it now!



Can’t necessarily comment for all the various Desiros, but it’s a well-known fault on Electrostars.

It’s really interesting to know that Electrostars suffer from ACU faults giving the same issues as Desiros. I wonder what causes the issue.

Talking about rubbish track, Witley on the up deserves a mention, I’d be interested to know what it feels like in non Desiro stock. Certainly 450s are worse than 444s, but the 444 don’t exactly glide through the problem spot.

 

[387star]

I see a clock will be introduced on 700s soon

Interesting this wasn't there from the off as the 444/450 units have always displayed the time which is excellent

 

[Muzer]

I see a clock will be introduced on 700s soon

Interesting this wasn't there from the off as the 444/450 units have always displayed the time which is excellent

Have the SWR Desiros always displayed the time? I thought that in itself was only a relatively recent addition, and the screens didn't do much of use for quite some time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 350s have certainly had the time showing since day one. I thought the 450s did as well - they used to say "xx:xx South West Trains".

 

[BestWestern]

Not sure about exactly the same type, but similar perhaps. They're certainly the same as the standard class seats of a 444.

I'm pretty sure they're not the same. Standard on both 444 and 450 use the same thin, hard seat, just laid out differently (obviously 2+2 on 444 vs 2+3 on 450). First class on a 450 is less luxurious than a 444, but they aren't the same seats as standard class.

I have to say I prefer an Electrostar. Or indeed anything that lacks the relentless noise and year-round freezing temperatures of the appalling Desiro aircon system. And those silly tiny buttons on the gangway doors that fail to register that someone has pressed them half the time. I've always felt that the 'Leccystar is a better rounded product, although fitters and technical staff may disagree!

 

[Dougal2345]

Standard on both 444 and 450 use the same thin, hard seat...

I think the seats are getting harder as the foam is getting crushed. In the 444s some of the 'squabs' (if that's the right term) have been replaced recently, and the new ones are much more comfy...

Or indeed anything that lacks the relentless noise and year-round freezing temperatures of the appalling Desiro aircon system.

I can't say I notice that the temps are particularly freezing, it's just the noise that annoys. I did a couple of measurements recently with a cheap sound meter that I bought to set up my hifi, and came up with:

444 - 55db at end of coach, 60db at centre
158 - 62db idling, 72db accelerating.

So the Desiro air conditioning makes a lovely silent electric train almost as noisy as an elderly DMU...

 

[deepeetw]

The 350s have certainly had the time showing since day one. I thought the 450s did as well - they used to say "xx:xx South West Trains".

They do - the font of the operator name changes for some reason when the minute next advances after it is first shown (something which has always caught my eye - clearly a little inconsistency in the programming!)

 

[Bob M]

On the SWR 444 and 450 the time display disappears a little before every station stop. Is this so one can't tell how late the train is? It's very irritating if one has a connection or a bus to catch.

 

[Muzer]

On the SWR 444 and 450 the time display disappears a little before every station stop. Is this so one can't tell how late the train is? It's very irritating if one has a connection or a bus to catch.

It's so they can display the fancy scrolling "the next station is" message. I guess whoever programmed it didn't think of keeping the time on the screen even during that scrolling message!

 

[RichJF]

There’s a fair amount of wriggle room on most Electrostar driver’s seats, but I find the cab can be a bit awkward due to positioning of stuff around the gangway door equipment (where fitted). 700s do at least have a nicer cab to walk around if you’re waiting at a station for a few moments.

Particularly Bletchingley Tunnel, between Nutfield and Godstone, I guess? Some of the worst track I’ve been down. Even Holmwood-Warnham doesn’t touch it now!

The track on the Cookspond Viaduct on the East Grinstead line is awful. Pitching & rolling as you leave the land & cross the viaduct both ends.
It's also really bad in the Oxted tunnel & on the stretch between Lingfield & Hurst Green.

The 377's I find really bouncy along this line.

 

[BestWestern]

I think the seats are getting harder as the foam is getting crushed. In the 444s some of the 'squabs' (if that's the right term) have been replaced recently, and the new ones are much more comfy...


I can't say I notice that the temps are particularly freezing, it's just the noise that annoys. I did a couple of measurements recently with a cheap sound meter that I bought to set up my hifi, and came up with:

444 - 55db at end of coach, 60db at centre
158 - 62db idling, 72db accelerating.

So the Desiro air conditioning makes a lovely silent electric train almost as noisy as an elderly DMU...

Interesting, I'd have had the Desi down as noisier I must admit! I do wonder whether the aircon is pre-set at the factory or if it's the TOC who decide how cold they want it. It must surely be adjustable, I personally find the SWT setting to be on the chilly side usually, and in winter it's often uncomfortably cold. The carriage full of people wearing coats generally suggests I'm not the only one!

 

[Mikey C]

Interesting, I'd have had the Desi down as noisier I must admit! I do wonder whether the aircon is pre-set at the factory or if it's the TOC who decide how cold they want it. It must surely be adjustable, I personally find the SWT setting to be on the chilly side usually, and in winter it's often uncomfortably cold. The carriage full of people wearing coats generally suggests I'm not the only one!

I imagine on busy trains it's a lot easier to wear your coat than try and take it off. On that basis, perhaps it's better for rush hour trains in winter to be cooler rather than warmer!

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

I got an upgrade to 1st class on a 450 once. No prob w/ lateral spacing there

As I live on the Windsor lines (No first class) I always sat in the first class area anyway.

 

[Class313:)]

eh? if theres no first class HOW do u sit in first class?

 

[Domh245]

The trains still have a first class section, but as the service doesn't have first class you can sit in the first class section on a standard class ticket

 

[Class313:)]

K. Is there 1st class on the 707s

 

[Domh245]

K. Is there 1st class on the 707s

No, standard class only on the 707s

 

[387star]

Desiros appear better built with a 'cleaner' look to the interior ie less separate parts and panels visible.

I do think the 377 seating configuration in the 377 leading and trailing coaches of certain 377/1 and all 377/2-5 is positively luxurious with tables throughout all seats lined up with windows armrests and a reasonably comfortable seat.

The 377/4-5 are further improved with a glass screen part way down this coach and enhanced first class compartment with power points a sliding door and improved seating.

 

[387star]

All southeastern 375s bar 375/9 and C2C 357s are pretty comfortable too compared to some newer trains

 

[Class313:)]

cough cough 387s

 

[superalbs]

cough cough 387s

What about them?

 

[class387]

cough cough 387s

They're quite new aren't they?

 

[Class313:)]

Yes they are new and thats my point. 357s are much nicer than the ironing boards on a 387, although 387s are newer

 

[class387]

Yes they are new and thats my point. 357s are much nicer than the ironing boards on a 387, although 387s are newer

Oh okay. Sorry, I misunderstood your post.

 

[Class313:)]

Its fine

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

eh? if theres no first class HOW do u sit in first class?

OK pedant I sit in first class equipped accommodation.

 

[Class313:)]

k...i geddit now. So poor juggling of trains by Stagecoach means u get free first class.... neat

 

[Dougal2345]

k...i geddit now. So poor juggling of trains by Stagecoach means u get free first class.... neat

Similar to me getting free first class on Southern by dint of carrying my own antimacassar

 

[SEClass375]

Trains on the Medway valley line aren't supposed to have 1st but do because of the 375/3s that run on it.