Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[Andyh82]

Are they leaving the bare fluorescent tube lighting on these, rather than introducing something less brash?

 

[507021]

Nope, the interior has not been modified and still has the declassified first class section seats.

Surprised these haven't been taken out, likewise with the other 350/4's with Northern.

Thanks, presumably the seat cushions and covers on the 319/4s will be changed when they get converted to Class 769.

Are they leaving the bare fluorescent tube lighting on these, rather than introducing something less brash?

Everything which is being retained post 2020 must be fitted with LED lighting according to the franchise agreement.

 

[mikemcniven]

Great shots! It's annoying that you couldn't get a shot with the lights on.

Does it still retain the controversial airline style seats?

The seating type and layout remain the same, just coverings changed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is the 158 big bog compliant as is? Seems small.

 

[palmersears]

I recall seeing a post fairly recently (although it may have been on WNXX) stating the order in which GWR 150/1s were being released to Northern, and the proposed dates for these cascades. If it was on here can anybody point me in the right direction?

 

[3973EXL]

I recall seeing a post fairly recently (although it may have been on WNXX) stating the order in which GWR 150/1s were being released to Northern, and the proposed dates for these cascades. If it was on here can anybody point me in the right direction?

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-150-1.158322/

 

[MG11]

Is the 158 big bog compliant as is? Seems small.

It won't be as it was made before the 1995 DDA. But, they are obviously accessible, just don't meet the requirements to make it 100% friendly.

 

[Domh245]

It won't be as it was made before the 1995 DDA. But, they are obviously accessible, just don't meet the requirements to make it 100% friendly.

Doesn't necessarily follow - it could have been built and then by sheer luck been compliant, but it is unlikely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Saw one of the fully done 158s at Preston. Almost no legroom at all due to the excessively thick seat back cushions, a very poor piece of design indeed, though the colour scheme looks nice.

 

[MG11]

Doesn't necessarily follow - it could have been built and then by sheer luck been compliant, but it is unlikely.

Possibly, but there are strict rules RE things like sink height, handrail colour contrasts etc, similarly to the 156s' toilets, designed with those who have disabilities in mind, but not to the current legislation. Some have had accessible door buttons fitted though.

 

[43096]

Possibly, but there are strict rules RE things like sink height, handrail colour contrasts etc, similarly to the 156s' toilets, designed with those who have disabilities in mind, but not to the current legislation. Some have had accessible door buttons fitted though.

The 158 disabled toilet can be made compliant (and indeed is being as part of the PRM work), so it easier to do than other classes which need the new "space capsules" fitted. Whilst there is some loss of seats on compliant 158s, this is to meet the standard for number of wheelchair spaces - there are no seats lost as a result of the toilet mods. Just shows what an excellent design the 158 is - after 25 years it is still pretty close to meeting the new standards.

 

[IanXC]

Saw one of the fully done 158s at Preston. Almost no legroom at all due to the excessively thick seat back cushions, a very poor piece of design indeed, though the colour scheme looks nice.

It's been a perfectly acceptable amount of leg room for the last 25+ years that the units have had these seats....

Fwiw I think these are some of the comfiest seats on a unit of this era.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's been a perfectly acceptable amount of leg room for the last 25+ years that the units have had these seats....

No, they are much thicker than the originals or even the original Arriva TPE refurbs. As built they are borderline acceptable, probably the tightest long distance base to back distance in the fleet. Reduced any more (by way of thicker cushions) and they are unsuitable for any more than commuter use.

 

[IanXC]

No, they are much thicker than the originals or even the original Arriva TPE refurbs. As built they are borderline acceptable, probably the tightest long distance base to back distance in the fleet. Reduced any more (by way of thicker cushions) and they are unsuitable for any more than commuter use.

Nope. They just haven't had 25 years worth of being sat on to compress them.

I must say, like many, I really struggle with your definition of a comfy seat - it's like no one elses I have very come across!

 

[47802]

No, they are much thicker than the originals or even the original Arriva TPE refurbs. As built they are borderline acceptable, probably the tightest long distance base to back distance in the fleet. Reduced any more (by way of thicker cushions) and they are unsuitable for any more than commuter use.

I would agree while the seats themselves are reasonable for comfort legroom is poor and the seats look dated, and frankly these seats should have been replaced years ago, but it just shows up what absolute disgrace the previous Northern franchises were, although I'm beginning to think the current one isn't that much better, what we have seen so far isn't good enough.

But of course if the they get changed for an ironing board variant as is supposed to be happening then that's probably not going to be very satisfactory either, the seats will look more modern and leg room will probably be better but seats themselves will probably be less comfortable.

 

[1179_Clee2]

I would agree while the seats themselves are reasonable for comfort legroom is poor and the seats look dated, and frankly these seats should have been replaced years ago, but it just shows up what absolute disgrace the previous Northern franchises were, although I'm beginning to think the current one isn't that much better, what we have seen so far isn't good enough.

But of course if the they get changed for an ironing board variant as is supposed to be happening then that's probably not going to be very satisfactory either, the seats will look more modern and leg room will probably be better but seats themselves will probably be less comfortable.

Northern have a BIG problem either fit NEW seats to some trains OR get PRM done for 2020.
Looking at what they are doing I think PRM is their priority.
Porterbrook and Angel are massively behind on PRM this is their fault not Northern's fault.
(507021) has a list of Northern's PRM fitted trains, 220 BR built trains with only 97 trains with PRM some of which have not arrived yet.
123 to PRM in 1 year 11 months and most need corrosion repairs as well. 170s and 333s have PRM and are not part of the 123.
Northern's franchise start date was 1st April 2016
PRM deadline is 31st December 2019
A difference of 45 months
The middle of next month will be 22 and a half months gone with 22 and a half still to go and nowhere near half the trains done.
Northern's priority has to be PRM not fitting trains with new seats.

 

[Adam0984]

The refurbishment programme hasn't been helped that the trains from GWR and SR haven't arrived as soon as they should which would have provided a bit of slack to get the PRM mods done

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Northern have a BIG problem either fit NEW seats to some trains OR get PRM done for 2020.
Looking at what they are doing I think PRM is their priority.
Porterbrook and Angel are massively behind on PRM this is their fault not Northern's fault.
(507021) has a list of Northern's PRM fitted trains, 220 BR built trains with only 97 trains with PRM some of which have not arrived yet.
123 to PRM in 1 year 11 months and most need corrosion repairs as well. 170s and 333s have PRM and are not part of the 123.
Northern's franchise start date was 1st April 2016
PRM deadline is 31st December 2019
A difference of 45 months
The middle of next month will be 22 and a half months gone with 22 and a half still to go and nowhere near half the trains done.
Northern's priority has to be PRM not fitting trains with new seats.

The PRM work should really have been started a decade or so ago, but then hindsight is always 20:20. It would probably have been the same if BR were still in existence though.

 

[trainmananthon]

158861 has now been PRM’d and is back in service.
158855 has gone down to Loughborough for its PRM mods
158845 (first one to have PRM mods done) has gone to Crewe for what is being described as ‘fleet enhancement and passenger information mods’. I’ve been told that this will possibly be fully working PIS, Wi-fi, Sockets of some description, new seats and internal/external repaint.

 

[northwichcat]

The PRM work should really have been started a decade or so ago, but then hindsight is always 20:20. It would probably have been the same if BR were still in existence though.

A decade ago it was mooted the Pacers would be withdrawn during CP4 and the 150s during CP5, meaning no-one would have thought giving PRM mods to the 150s was necessary. However, enhanced passenger numbers and the awarding of many new awards being postponed changed all that.

 

[Halish Railway]

158845 (first one to have PRM mods done) has gone to Crewe for what is being described as ‘fleet enhancement and passenger information mods’. I’ve been told that this will possibly be fully working PIS, Wi-fi, Sockets of some description, new seats and internal/external repaint.

Where has this information come from? It seems like most of the new condition refurbished have come out of Crewe.

 

[507021]

158861 has now been PRM’d and is back in service.
158855 has gone down to Loughborough for its PRM mods
158845 (first one to have PRM mods done) has gone to Crewe for what is being described as ‘fleet enhancement and passenger information mods’. I’ve been told that this will possibly be fully working PIS, Wi-fi, Sockets of some description, new seats and internal/external repaint.

Thanks very much, I'll add that to my next update which I'll be doing shortly.

 

[507021]

Latest changes are underlined.

Units in red are in the Northern Rail livery or their former operator's livery.
Units in blue are in the Northern or Northern base livery.
Units in bold are refurbished.
Units with a ^ are out of service for repaint/refurbishment/PRM mods.
Units with a * have received PRM modifications.
Units with a $ are currently stored/out of service.
Units in italics have not arrived yet.

Class 150s
150101, 150102^, 150103, 150104, 150105, 150106, 150107, 150108, 150109, 150110, 150111, 150112, 150113^, 150114, 150115, 150116, 150117, 150118, 150119, 150120, 150121, 150122, 150123, 150124*$, 150125, 150126*, 150127, 150128, 150129, 150130, 150131, 150132, 150133, 150134*, 150135, 150136*, 150137*, 150138, 150139, 150140*, 150141, 150142*, 150143, 150144^, 150145, 150146, 150147, 150148, 150149*, 150150.

150201, 150203*, 150204*^, 150205*, 150206*, 150207, 150210, 150211*, 150214, 150215, 150218, 150220*, 150222*, 150223*, 150224, 150225, 150226, 150228, 150268, 150269, 150270, 150271, 150272, 150273, 150274^, 150275*, 150276*, 150277.

Class 155s
155341, 155342, 155343, 155344, 155345*, 155346*, 155347^.

Class 156s
156420^, 156421, 156423, 156424, 156425, 156426, 156427, 156428, 156429, 156438*, 156440, 156441, 156443*, 156444*, 156448*, 156451*, 156452^, 156454*, 156455, 156459, 156460, 156461, 156463*, 156464, 156466, 156468, 156469*, 156471*, 156472*, 156475, 156479*, 156480, 156481*, 156482*, 156483*, 156484*, 156486*, 156487*, 156488*, 156489*, 156490*, 156491*, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??.

Class 158s
158752*, 158753*, 158754*, 158755*, 158756*, 158757*, 158758^, 158759.

158782*, 158784, 158786*, 158787, 158789*, 158790, 158791, 158792, 158793, 158794, 158795, 158796, 158797, 158815, 158816, 158817, 158842, 158843, 158844, 158845*^, 158848*, 158849*, 158850*, 158851, 158853, 158855^, 158859*, 158860*, 158861, 158867*, 158868*, 158869*, 158870*$, 158871*$, 158872.

158901, 158902, 158903, 158904, 158905, 158906, 158907, 158908, 158909, 158910.

Note: 158906 is fitted with WiFi, charging points and a PIS in one carriage.

Class 170s
170453*, 170454*, 170455*, 170456*, 170457*, 170458*, 170459*, 170460*, 170461*, 170472*, 170473*, 170474*, 170475*, 170476*, 170477*, 170478*.

Class 319s (All are now PRM compliant)
319361*, 319362*, 319363*^, 319364*, 319365*, 319366*, 319367*, 319368*, 319369*, 319370*, 319371*, 319374*, 319375*, 319376*, 319377*, 319378*, 319379*, 319380*, 319381*$, 319382*, 319383*, 319384*, 319385*, 319386*.

319424*^, 319431*^, 319434*^, 319442*$, 319448*^, 319450*, 319456*^, 319458*$.

Class 333s
333001*, 333002*, 333003*, 333004*, 333005*, 333006*, 333007*, 333008*, 333009*, 333010*, 333011*, 333012*, 333013*, 333014*, 333015*, 333016*.

Class 769s (Undergoing conversion)
769424*, 769431*, 769434*, 769442*, 769448*, 769450*, 769456*, 769458*, 7694??, 7694??, 7694??.

If anyone sees any mistakes or has any additional information, please let me know.

 

[trainmananthon]

Where has this information come from? It seems like most of the new condition refurbished have come out of Crewe.

Info is from a couple of people internal. 156420 is also having these ‘fleet enhancement and Passenger information’ mods aswell as a C6 overhaul at Crewe. The 156 has been in a couple of months now so should be back out soon in theory.

Worth also mentioning that 158845 was the first to go to Loughborough for mods which included fitting PIS etc so it certainly hasn’t gone to Crewe for that! Only time will tell

 

[northwichcat]

Worth also mentioning that 158845 was the first to go to Loughborough for mods which included fitting PIS etc so it certainly hasn’t gone to Crewe for that! Only time will tell

The post above says making the PIS on 158845 fully functional opposed to fitting it. Many Northern units have PIS/CIS displays fitted but they don't do anything or just provide basic information like the destination.

 

[507021]

Info is from a couple of people internal. 156420 is also having these ‘fleet enhancement and Passenger information’ mods aswell as a C6 overhaul at Crewe. The 156 has been in a couple of months now so should be back out soon in theory.

Worth also mentioning that 158845 was the first to go to Loughborough for mods which included fitting PIS etc so it certainly hasn’t gone to Crewe for that! Only time will tell

Thanks, I've added this update to my list.

 

[MG11]

158861 has now been PRM’d and is back in service.
158855 has gone down to Loughborough for its PRM mods
158845 (first one to have PRM mods done) has gone to Crewe for what is being described as ‘fleet enhancement and passenger information mods’. I’ve been told that this will possibly be fully working PIS, Wi-fi, Sockets of some description, new seats and internal/external repaint.

When you say new seats, are we talking wholly new seats i.e. Grammer or just the padding/moquette replacing?

 

[Halish Railway]

When you say new seats, are we talking wholly new seats i.e. Grammer or just the padding/moquette replacing?

Brand new seats for 156's and 158's and they will most likely be fainsa ironing boards as that is what is being fitted to the 195's and 331's.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Brand new seats for 156's and 158's and they will most likely be fainsa ironing boards as that is what is being fitted to the 195's and 331's.

If the 158s are getting new seats how come the one I saw at Preston appeared to have the originals but reupholstered and with new foams? Seems a waste of money. Or was that one a trial run?

158 with ironing boards should actually be good, hopefully they will use the ScotRail contoured cushion instead of the original. The thin backs should make the legroom very generous compared with the original while retaining the original window aligned layout (give or take a very small mucked-up bit for priority seating).

 

[Halish Railway]

If the 158s are getting new seats how come the one I saw at Preston appeared to have the originals but reupholstered and with new foams? Seems a waste of money. Or was that one a trial run

From what I have heard, the DfT or Northern management were not happy with the earlier refurbs and wanted something of more quality, hence the two different styles of refurbishment.

The DfT were happy with the TPE refurbs and wanted Northern to do something like it.