ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[47271]

Do we mean filthy or do we mean worn out interior, the latter can often give the impression of the former? I'm currently on a recently refurbed 170 which is both clean and in good condition. I could just as easily be on one of horrors that still have the original National Express fitout. I've been on plenty of those and it's plain that they've gone way beyond a condition where anything other than litter picking is going to be invisible.

This is relevant to the HSTs because a set could enter service for the first time and be wrecked with litter, spills, winter salt on the carpet etc within two days. It would be filthy, but relatively easily cleaned and look immaculate. A knackered interior (eg one of the more choice Haymarket 158s) is always a knackered interior.

 

[route:oxford]

It is is relevant to the HSTs because a set could enter service for the first time and be wrecked with litter, spills, winter salt on the carpet etc within two days.

Two days! Have you seen the state of the toilets of the Highland Chieftain by the time it leaves York on the way South?

 

[Highland37]

I mean filthy as in the carpets are totally worn out and ingrained with dirt. Around the areas that are vaguely less easy to hoover, there is a lot of detritus and dirt. I don't blame the staff, there clearly aren't enough of them.

The traveling public are clearly to blame but no one is going to take a pride in a train that is so worn.

 

[xotGD]

What a contrast: posters in Scotland complaining about 158s and 170s, posters in Northern land desperately waiting for 158s and 170s to arrive.

 

[47802]

What a contrast: posters in Scotland complaining about 158s and 170s, posters in Northern land desperately waiting for 158s and 170s to arrive.

Yes but a dirty Scotrail train will be like a new train on Northern

 

[marks87]

Am I the only ScotRail user who doesn't mind the 158s?

I much prefer them to the 170s, not least because there's internal doors between the seats and the vestibule. I'd certainly not complain if they got rid of more 170s and retained 158s (with a bit of TLC) for the Edinburgh/Glasgow-Dundee/Perth semi-fasts.

 

[deltic08]

Back on the filthy units today from Kingussie to Glasgow. 170413 which, as usual, has the roof panels rattling like a cheapo car from the far east (which are pretty good these days).

and I suppose this unit is being cascaded soon to northern England.

 

[ld0595]

Am I the only ScotRail user who doesn't mind the 158s?

I much prefer them to the 170s, not least because there's internal doors between the seats and the vestibule. I'd certainly not complain if they got rid of more 170s and retained 158s (with a bit of TLC) for the Edinburgh/Glasgow-Dundee/Perth semi-fasts.

I also don't really mind the 158s - especially the refurbished sets. They are certainly a lot less rattly than the 170s and I often find them a lot quieter.

 

[jingsmonty]

Winter tyres undoubtedly make a significant difference in real winter weather. Today in Inverness it is 7 degrees and the roads are bone dry. So those using winter tyres will experience longer braking distances than they would using normal tyres. My point here is is it really worth it for the 10 days totacl we have real winter weather?

Yes!! Winter tyres work better at 7 degrees. I have them & I'd make it a legal requirement - beats the soaring insurance claims & the queues of stuck cars you get when there's a flurry of snow.
Anyway, back to HST....I wonder how these will cope with snow & cold weathe Don't recall many issues. Know 158s have braking issues & 170s have air issues in very cold/snowy conditions...

 

[Clansman]

Am I the only ScotRail user who doesn't mind the 158s?

I much prefer them to the 170s, not least because there's internal doors between the seats and the vestibule. I'd certainly not complain if they got rid of more 170s and retained 158s (with a bit of TLC) for the Edinburgh/Glasgow-Dundee/Perth semi-fasts.

As long as it's not an unrefurbished Haymarket unit, I'm fine with them also.

 

[sprinterguy]

and I suppose this unit is being cascaded soon to northern England.

Nope, not part of the tranche that's moving south.

 

[Highland37]

I am on the 170 out of Queen Street right now. It hit 100mph shortly after Lenzie.

How will the HSTs fair in acceleration and speed out of Queen Street?

Ps this train is quite clean.

 

[swaldman]

I am on the 170 out of Queen Street right now. It hit 100mph shortly after Lenzie.

How will the HSTs fair in acceleration and speed out of Queen Street?

A straightforward calculation of power:weight, based on numbers from Wikipedia, would give a 5+2 HST a ratio about 50% better than a 170. But I suspect that the reality of train acceleration, especially from a standing start, is probably far more complicated - and I'm sure the experts will chime in!

 

[hexagon789]

Considering a 2+7 HST can make 100 mph in about 3 mins 15 secs from a standing start, that's about a minute quicker than a 170, I would imagine a 2+5 HST will be significantly better still and a 2+4 fornation even more so.

 

[jingsmonty]

Am I the only ScotRail user who doesn't mind the 158s?

I much prefer them to the 170s, not least because there's internal doors between the seats and the vestibule. I'd certainly not complain if they got rid of more 170s and retained 158s (with a bit of TLC) for the Edinburgh/Glasgow-Dundee/Perth semi-fasts.

I wouldn't agree with that...158s have terrible seats & useless aircon/heating (as well as freezing cold toilets, due to their location).
Give me a 170 (despite their many, well documented flaws) over a 158 any day...comfier seats, half-decent aircon/heating (usually) & 1st class.

Mind you, will await the refurbished Mk3 HST coaches with interest.....

 

[jingsmonty]

A straightforward calculation of power:weight, based on numbers from Wikipedia, would give a 5+2 HST a ratio about 50% better than a 170. But I suspect that the reality of train acceleration, especially from a standing start, is probably far more complicated - and I'm sure the experts will chime in!

Think that sounds about right, certainly the 170s/158 aren't quick off the mark at all - could quite easily outdrag a moving 170 when starting from a stand with a 334 leaving Haymarket for the North.....& the 334s aren't particularly quick for an EMU..

 

[Roast Veg]

The issue will be with the number of powered axles on an HST and avoiding wheelslip.

 

[route101]

I am on the 170 out of Queen Street right now. It hit 100mph shortly after Lenzie.

How will the HSTs fair in acceleration and speed out of Queen Street?

Ps this train is quite clean.

The 380s seemed really quick out of Queen St !
Its uphill all the way to Bishopbriggs just about .

 

[route101]

I also don't really mind the 158s - especially the refurbished sets. They are certainly a lot less rattly than the 170s and I often find them a lot quieter.

Was on a 158 other day to Gala , older NX interior , seats were hemmed in and theres constant noise from air con .

 

[Northhighland]

I was a regular traveller up the 1 in 37 Lickey before introduction of Voyagers by XC. Can't remember any problem with not making it up the hill in an HST. HML is nowhere near as steep at 1 in 60 with 2 or 3 coaches less.

Travel regularly on East Coast Highland Chieftan, leaving Pitlochry regularly slips, same at Slochd. Maybe will be better with 5 coaches, I am no expert. However would seem to be short sighted not to upgrade the electronics.

 

[najaB]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if there's a fault with the 4+2 set that is (was?) sat in the Dundee carriage sidings for the last few days? I saw it on Sunday and thought it was because line to Aberdeen was closed but it was still there as late as this afternoon.

 

[fgwrich]

Now appearing on Facebook. Looking good!

 

[ld0595]

Now appearing on Facebook. Looking good!

Looks good! I'm looking forward to see the final design with the city sillouette applied.

 

[Highlandspring]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if there's a fault with the 4+2 set that is (was?) sat in the Dundee carriage sidings for the last few days? I saw it on Sunday and thought it was because line to Aberdeen was closed but it was still there as late as this afternoon.

No, it's doing static driver training and will be out for practical handling turns shortly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Now appearing on Facebook. Looking good!

Such a timeless design.

 

[najaB]

No, it's doing static driver training and will be out for practical handling turns shortly.

Ah, okay - thanks. I guess it's easier to bring the train to the drivers than the drivers to the train.

 

[Highland37]

Now appearing on Facebook. Looking good!

Which Facebook page are those appearing on? I'd like to see more.

 

[haggishunter]

I wouldn't agree with that...158s have terrible seats & useless aircon/heating (as well as freezing cold toilets, due to their location).
Give me a 170 (despite their many, well documented flaws) over a 158 any day...comfier seats, half-decent aircon/heating (usually) & 1st class.
.

I guess it shows how personal the preference for seats are but I find the 158s much better for longer journeys. The heating on 170s is somewhat irrelevant when the weather blows through the entire passenger salon at each station in winter! A 4 coach 158 has 4 toilets, a 3 coach 170 only 2. The lack of gangway connections on the 170s mean its often possible to end up in the wrong bit of the train for catering when units are coupled together.

That said when I see a 158-170 combo, I'll go to the 158 - for the above reasons but also on the refurbished sets (both in the current round and ones done for the North Highland lines previously) the airline seat tables are a decent size and have the wire pull out which means you can comfortably use a laptop on them. On the 170s the small fold down tray is barely big enough for a coffee and Kit Kat and the rounded edge makes it useless for trying to work on. I've also found mobile signals to be consistently stronger in 158s and much more degraded in the 170s - not sure why, but I've noticed a marked difference in mobile data reliability between the two units.

 

[Highland37]

Interesting. I avoid the 158s if I can due to the loud humming noise from the "air conditioning" which appears to be just a fan.

I was on a 156 the other day and the bike space is superior to 170s, 158s and the HSTs which says a lot that in 2018 you can only go backwards.

 

[Highland37]

The things I am looking forward to regarding the HSTs are:

• Quieter
• More space for passengers (more seats)
• Potentially more cycle space
• More intercity style travel
• Faster
• More frequent
• Better

Well done TS, Scot Gov and Abellio I say.