Off Peak Day Return Fun between ATW & WMT between Shrewsbury and Birmingham International

[Gareth Marston]

Since 2nd January there have been changes to fares on this corridor.

ATW have introduced ATW Only Off Peak Day Returns between Shrewsbury and the stations it serves to Birmingham International.

These all have the standard AW restriction Code Mondays to Fridays. Not valid for journeys starting before 09.30, Not valid for journeys starting between 16.00-18.29. Connections to journeys that started before 16.00 are unaffected by this restriction.

The fares are all a few pence cheaper than the existing Off Peak Day Returns which WMT have changed the restriction codes on a bit.

Shrewsbury to

Wellington SDR 5.00 CDR n/a ATW CDR 4.30
Telford SDR 7.50 CDR 6.20 (JD) ATW CDR 5.80
Wolverhampton SDR 13.80 CDR 10.20 (JE) ATW CDR 10.10
Smethick Galton Bridge SDR 17.80 CDR 15.00 (JE) ATW CDR 14.60
Birmingham Stations SDR 19.00 CDR 15.00 (DJ) ATW CDR 14.60
Birmingham SDR 19.20 CDR 15.50 (JE) ATW CDR 15.00
International

JD is Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 09:00.
JE is Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 09:15.
DJ is Not valid on trains timed to depart before 09:00. Not valid on any train departing Birmingham New Street, Birmingham Snow Hill, Birmingham Moor Street, Five Ways or Jewellery Quarter between 16:34 and 18:01.
All are Monday to Friday only.

WMT are to run 2 tph all day long and ATW run 1 tph

So plan your day out from Shrewsbury taking into account operator and different restriction codes to find that elusive saving of 50p at best!

Who said fares were being simplified?

 

[bb21]

Pricing TOC only fares at a smidge lower than the Any Permitted fare, especially on short-distance journeys, is a bit of a con imo. The loss in flexibility sometimes, as illustrated here, is huge.

I would advocate a compulsory minimum level of saving before such fares can be introduced, in line with the loss of flexibility (not necessarily directly proportional) and taking into account travel distance, to stop what are essentially ORCATs raids imo.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Its also opened up some split opportunities that weren't there from Cambrian stations on the previous fares particularly to Wolverhampton.

But you need to know what your doing - its a minefield for poor old joe public.

 

[gray1404]

I've always thought there should be TOC only walk up fares between Liverpool and Manchester on Northern (and EMT). They work well on the WCML with LNR if the customer knows what they are doing. However, they must understand that the saving comes with a loss of flexibility.

 

[0B00]

BR Fares shows the ATW only fares as MORE expensive than the 'any operator' fares.

 

[Gareth Marston]

BR Fares shows the ATW only fares as MORE expensive than the 'any operator' fares.

Won't be first time that Retail systems and BR Fares disagree. Passengers pay retail system not what BR Fares say.

 

[Ianno87]

I've always thought there should be TOC only walk up fares between Liverpool and Manchester on Northern (and EMT). They work well on the WCML with LNR if the customer knows what they are doing. However, they must understand that the saving comes with a loss of flexibility.

Wonder if its worth Northern's bother? They might get a sufficiently decent cut of Any Permitted fares anyway that they might actually lose money through selling 'Northern only' ones? LM are sufficiently slow from Euston to Brum that that they might not see much of the Any Permitted pie.

 

[0B00]

Won't be first time that Retail systems and BR Fares disagree. Passengers pay retail system not what BR Fares say.

Yes I'm fully aware of that. Unnecessary comment.

 

[gray1404]

Wonder if its worth Northern's bother? They might get a sufficiently decent cut of Any Permitted fares anyway that they might actually lose money through selling 'Northern only' ones? LM are sufficiently slow from Euston to Brum that that they might not see much of the Any Permitted pie.

I see your point totally regarding LNW not seeing much of the Any Permitted fares, hence making their own fares in their interests.

On the Liverpool to Manchester flow though, Northern only operate 1 fast train per hour (with 2 stoppers - so I total of 3 an hour for the passenger to choose from) so having Northern only Walk Ups would mean they would not have to share the revenue with TPE (running 2 fast services an hour) and EMT (1 fast per hour). I doubt they would loose anything and as they are not the fare setter on the flow (TPE is) they could quiet easily do this.

However, it seems to be something Northern have not cottoned onto yet to issue their own walk ups. I have only known them only issue their own Advances.

 

[OwlMan]

Won't be first time that Retail systems and BR Fares disagree. Passengers pay retail system not what BR Fares say.

The fare was Introduced on 2nd January 2018 and was reduced wef 20 January 2018

 

[gazthomas]

This illustrates the issue with Orcats/Rail Settlement plan

 

[Starmill]

Pricing TOC only fares at a smidge lower than the Any Permitted fare, especially on short-distance journeys, is a bit of a con imo.

ATW are the masters at it. They introduced their own dedicated fares Manchester <> Stockport <> Wilmslow <> Crewe and all (or almost all) intermediate combinations. They were consistently 20p cheaper than the long-standing Virgin only fares in all cases both CDS and CDR ticket types. This January I note that VT seem to have cut their fares by 30p for some journeys, so that they are now in fact the cheapest again... by 10p. Even worse, if you look at Wilmslow to Crewe the Arriva Trains Wales only and Virgin Trains only fares are the same price - £8 CDS and £8.10 CDR. They offer a very poor discount over the Any Permitted at £9.20 - just a 12% discount for choosing only 1 of the 4 services per hour.

This practice has no descernible customer benefit. Competition is not usually the answer.

Also, interesting that as of 2nd Jan the Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton ATW CDR was to be £10.30, but has been lowered to £10.10 in order to be 10p cheaper than the Any Permitted. Can anyone tell me what the price of an Any Permitted Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton CDR was prior to 2nd Jan? I am sure there must be somewhere that has that data... (I am sure you can all see what I am hinting at here).

 

[Starmill]

However, it seems to be something Northern have not cottoned onto yet to issue their own walk ups. I have only known them only issue their own Advances.

There is one from Chester to Runcorn, but as I understand it it is not really a commercial thing!

 

[Gareth Marston]

ATW are the masters at it. They introduced their own dedicated fares Manchester <> Stockport <> Wilmslow <> Crewe and all (or almost all) intermediate combinations. They were consistently 20p cheaper than the long-standing Virgin only fares in all cases both CDS and CDR ticket types. This January I note that VT seem to have cut their fares by 30p for some journeys, so that they are now in fact the cheapest again... by 10p. Even worse, if you look at Wilmslow to Crewe the Arriva Trains Wales only and Virgin Trains only fares are the same price - £8 CDS and £8.10 CDR. They offer a very poor discount over the Any Permitted at £9.20 - just a 12% discount for choosing only 1 of the 4 services per hour.

This practice has no descernible customer benefit. Competition is not usually the answer.

Also, interesting that as of 2nd Jan the Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton ATW CDR was to be £10.30, but has been lowered to £10.10 in order to be 10p cheaper than the Any Permitted. Can anyone tell me what the price of an Any Permitted Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton CDR was prior to 2nd Jan? I am sure there must be somewhere that has that data... (I am sure you can all see what I am hinting at here).

Splitting from Newtown at Shrewsbury wasn't worth it I think 10p was the saving on the non discounted price. The Newtown to Shrewsbury SDR was £8.40 and Newtown to Wolverhampton SDR something like £19.60.

 

[Starmill]

What I was getting at was, has the Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton Any Permitted change and in what way?