Class 373 Eurostar withdrawals

[gsnedders]

Thanks for comments on the video.
I've been wading through the thread from the fist page to get upto speed on the reasons behind the scrapping etc, and can see now the details on the oversized gauge etc. I presume that as there was a north of london eurostar service run by GNR at some point, clearance along the ECM exists, again presumably do to remodelling of the infrastructure like bridges at some point. Hence that's why they get dragged up the ECML

Yeah, I expect there's no paperwork in place to allow running them up the WCML, and if the paths exist on the ECML to run them there's no need to spend the money on the paperwork.

 

[Class319&373]

Anybody remember the classic yellow and grey seat interiors the 373s used to have as well as the NOL sets?

Here's a cool video exploring the half set of 3102, the power car as many know is at Birmingham. But the coaches appear to be stored in Valenciennes next to 3017/3018, and by the looks of it these coaches have been there for years (maybe since the 2012 Olympics?). 3101's coaches apparently got scrapped by road, so I've heard.

 

[childwallblues]

I just looked on RTT to see how it progressed after reports of delays. Seems that it was delayed outside Sandy, and then again entering Tamworth, over 400 minutes !

Looking at the route, can anyone advise why it gets dragged from St Pancras up the ECML and then branches off across country, snaking through Melton Mowbray, then Leicester then up to Tamworth.

Wouldn't the WCML be a more direct route ?

A more direct route would be the MML!

 

[Railperf]

There seems to be a Eurostar set split into two halves and and sitting on the far side of Temple Mills from the Orient Way. It hasn't moved in a couple of weeks at least. Is that one being prepared for scrapping?

 

[BananaRepublic]

Just out of interest, and it may come from a place of paranoia, but with Eurostar now being largely SNCF controlled (so French government), how many of the sets that have been scrapped so far, or are expected to be, were ordered by BR, or SNCB... and how many of those remaining in the fleet were SNCF ordered

The eight sets that are being refurbished were originally owned by BR/EPS (2 sets) and SNCF (6 sets). FWIW I don't think the original owner has any influence over what has been retained..........

I'm not saying that any one country has total control over assets they purchased. I'm merely suggesting that given that E* is majority controlled by SNCF now, that they are ensuring that as many of the machines/sets that they funded are retained.

The original ownership is irrelevant as all the assets of the old Eurostar company, including the trains, were transferred to the ownership of the new Eurostar International in 2010.
All of the trains belong, or did belong in the case of the scrapped ones, to privately registered company Eurostar International, not to any state*.
The exception being the three "Three Capitals" sets that were operated by SNCF on French domestic services. These were not transferred to EIL and were withdrawn from service several years ago.

[ * n.b. It is incidental that two of EIL's shareholders are state owned SNCF (55%) and NMBS (5%). The other shareholders are Quebec Deposit & Investment Fund (30%) and Hermes Infrastructure (10%).)

Thanks for comments on the video.
....I presume that as there was a north of london eurostar service run by GNR at some point,....

No north of London Eurostar services ever ran.
What you are referring to, is a period of time when former operator GNER, leased some of the unused NoL sets for use on the ECML.
This was to cover for IC225 sets being taken out of service to undergo the Mallard upgrade and refurbishment.
These were GNER services and not Eurostar services.

 

[Southern Dvr]

So, what has happened to the NoL sets? Have any gone for scrapping in this country or did the French deal with them there?

 

[rebmcr]

So, what has happened to the NoL sets?

Didn't they go to Canada? Or was that Nightstar?

 

[Marklund]

Didn't they go to Canada? Or was that Nightstar?

Nightstar. The NoL (North of London) short sets after life with GNER went to SNCF and did Lille to Paris services.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Which they now don’t do, but have any been chopped?

Obviously 3308 is at NRM.

 

[43096]

Which they now don’t do, but have any been chopped?

Obviously 3308 is at NRM.

To be pedantic, it is power car 3733080 that is at the NRM. (37)3308 is the set number.

The intermediate coaches from 3308 have gone for scrap - by road to Kingsbury a while ago.

 

[ChilternTurbo]

Anybody remember the classic yellow and grey seat interiors the 373s used to have as well as the NOL sets?

Here's a cool video exploring the half set of 3102, the power car as many know is at Birmingham. But the coaches appear to be stored in Valenciennes next to 3017/3018, and by the looks of it these coaches have been there for years (maybe since the 2012 Olympics?). 3101's coaches apparently got scrapped by road, so I've heard.

I'd forgotten about the early interiors on the 373, especially the rather nasty and cheap looking yellow and grey setup in standard class. I remember thinking when these were new that the interiors lacked any sort of 'wow factor'. Even the later refurbishment looked quite drab and nondescript.
Anyway, an interesting film and not very secure looking storage especially as I thought SNCF and Eurostar were meant to be quite secretive about the storage and scrapping of their units.

 

[Gadget88]

So I guess the new trains will only last 20 or so years aswell?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The majority of the NoL sets are, surprisingly, still in store in France.

I had thought they had been amongst the first to be broken up, but Today's Railways Europe issue 264, page 40, states that they are stored in a highly secure army base at Ambronay near Lyon.

 

[Breadman]

So I guess the new trains will only last 20 or so years aswell?

I hope so
The new trains are so bland and cheap

 

[Gadget88]

I hope so
The new trains are so bland and cheap

I think the new trains are great bright and modern the old ones seemed dark and grey. Would go as far as saying they are my favourite train of all. Look forward to the new East coast too. However don’t like the new Scotrail electric trains.

 

[MarkyT]

... Today's Railways Europe issue 264, page 40, states that they are stored in a highly secure army base at Ambronay near Lyon.

Many many TGV type vehicles visible here via Google Earth:


including 6 eurostar sets, all 16-car so presumably ex NoL sets:


Note the imagery is recent - Nov 2017.

 

[BananaRepublic]

....they are stored in a highly secure army base at Ambronay near Lyon.

Apparently, it's an ex-army base, that has been fitted out with storage sidings.
The Ambronay site is described as an antechamber for Culoz, the rail scrap yard, which is further along the line, through the mountains to the SE.

The NoL sets parked near Ambronay, have been mentioned on French Rail forums.
Here's a blurred photo, grabbed from a YouTube video, giving a peek of the ex-NoL's behind the yard wall.

 

[Marklund]

Do they still belong to HMG, or did we actually sell them off to SNCF?
I seem to remember talk of a leasing arrangement around the time there was talk of coming back to the East Coast, but it might well have been a straight sale.
The fact they kept pretty much the standard livery made me think it was a lease, as opposed to the Silver fronted SNCF only ones.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Many many TGV type vehicles visible here via Google Earth:
Note the imagery is recent - Nov 2017.

That's interesting; I have a 2018 view on mine that doesn't show any of these stored vehicles or the clearly newly built sidings!

 

[MarkyT]

That's interesting; I have a 2018 view on mine that doesn't show any of these stored vehicles or the clearly newly built sidings!

That is earlier, 2013 I think. With the standalone Google Earth Program instead of Maps you can go back through their historical imagery. The Imagery copyright notice shown there does not not necessarily correspond the date of the images!

 

[43096]

Do they still belong to HMG, or did we actually sell them off to SNCF?
I seem to remember talk of a leasing arrangement around the time there was talk of coming back to the East Coast, but it might well have been a straight sale.
The fact they kept pretty much the standard livery made me think it was a lease, as opposed to the Silver fronted SNCF only ones.

They are owned by Eurostar International Ltd., and were leased to SNCF.

EIL was the unified company created a few years ago and it took ownership of all Eurostar’s except the three SNCF domestic sets that were outside the Eurostar pool.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Looks like some of the tracks got ripped up so maybe they were moved?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That is earlier, 2013 I think. With the standalone Google Earth Program instead of Maps you can go back through their historical imagery. The Imagery copyright notice shown there does not not necessarily correspond the date of the images!

Yes, definitely an earlier image - but would you not expect that when you just go into Maps without searching back, it should display the most recent image by default.

 

[Prestige15]

In Kingsbury

 

[MarkyT]

Yes, definitely an earlier image - but would you not expect that when you just go into Maps without searching back, it should display the most recent image by default.

The version of Google Earth (the standalone program) on my desktop usually defaults to a 3d view, if available for the area I'm looking at. Sometimes the 3d can be quite old. An example would be Reading station, which in the default 3d view is shown in the mid throws of its massive remodelling project. There is a more recent (flat) image available from 2017 showing the final configuration which is available through the historic images feature. So my answer is it looks like Google doesn't always show their most up to date images automatically when they add new ones. I expect they have a defined default images that gets updated to the latest when some human gets round to checking them for quality. Some of the old ones visible in historic are really rubbish, sometimes obscured by clouds, low resolution, etc. but I always check the historic images now when looking at a place in detail for the first time, as sometimes there are better ones available in the past, or the 'future' (compared to the default clearly!).

 

[Marklund]

They are owned by Eurostar International Ltd., and were leased to SNCF.

EIL was the unified company created a few years ago and it took ownership of all Eurostar’s except the three SNCF domestic sets that were outside the Eurostar pool.

Thanks.
I guess at the time they were initially leased they were still technically owned by the Government, but with the changes in EIL, that's all different now.

 

[Breadman]

Eurostar 3017/3018 can be seen in this picture. The set is being stored in valencines

 

[D365]

So I guess the new trains will only last 20 or so years aswell?

A fairly normal lifespan for very high speed rolling stock.

 

[Marklund]

A fairly normal lifespan for very high speed rolling stock.

World, or European?
The PSE TGVs must be remarkable then. The ICE1s not bad too.

 

[MarkyT]

Japanese Shinkansen trains rarely achieve much more than 20 years in service too.