Service changes at Liverpool - WMR/long distance

[pt_mad]

Probably not (discussion for another thread I think), but they still take up capacity there.

Isn't there going to be a new station at Crewe for HS2? Seem to remember seeing an artist's impression of it some time ago in Rail News. Looked like something similar to Reading Station!

 

[The Planner]

Crewe may be redveloped for HS2 in some form, but it will be the existing station and not seperate.

 

[frodshamfella]

I received an email from London Northwestern who said my local station ( Acton Bridge )will receive an improved service , including a Sunday service.

 

[pt_mad]

Crewe may be redveloped for HS2 in some form, but it will be the existing station and not seperate.

These images showed a sort of modern space age building. Like Reading. With a huge mezzanine concourse, with escalators going down. It looked nothing like today's Crewe as nothing Victorian on the pictures?

 

[edwin_m]

These images showed a sort of modern space age building. Like Reading. With a huge mezzanine concourse, with escalators going down. It looked nothing like today's Crewe as nothing Victorian on the pictures?

You are probably thinking of the proposal to abandon the existing station and build a new "Crewe Hub" at Basford Hall. That was abandoned on cost grounds and probably also because of the difficulties with the existing freight yards. Whatever is built will now be on the existing site, and will most likely incorporate at least the listed parts of the existing station. But I haven't seen anything reported recently on what it will actually look like.

 

[pt_mad]

You are probably thinking of the proposal to abandon the existing station and build a new "Crewe Hub" at Basford Hall. That was abandoned on cost grounds and probably also because of the difficulties with the existing freight yards. Whatever is built will now be on the existing site, and will most likely incorporate at least the listed parts of the existing station. But I haven't seen anything reported recently on what it will actually look like.

Oh right. Was it still proposed as recently as last year?

 

[fowler9]

The Halton Curve service replaces the Preston/Blackpool extension to LPY (recently withdrawn), so no new path needed at Lime St.
The Calder Valley service will be additional (when it comes).
Glasgow TPE service is only 3tpd.

I caught a Parkway to Preston service yesterday, how recently did they withdraw it? Last night?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I caught a Parkway to Preston service yesterday, how recently did they withdraw it? Last night?

Maybe I mean in "May".
It was in a Merseytravel document I think
.

 

[SeanM1997]

With the changes meaning Birmingham International will have two trains an hour to Liverpool, an increase in passenger numbers and connectivity will probably happen here. The platforms are already quite narrow, and the airport getting busier every year - will the station prove to be a problem in its success. I would have preferred the service which would have terminated at Birmingham International to continue to Leamington Spa, replacing the new Coventry-Kenilworth-Leamington hourly service, providing connections to the Chilterns from Liverpool and giving Kenilworth a direct train to Birmingham New Street

 

[pt_mad]

With the changes meaning Birmingham International will have two trains an hour to Liverpool, an increase in passenger numbers and connectivity will probably happen here. The platforms are already quite narrow, and the airport getting busier every year - will the station prove to be a problem in its success. I would have preferred the service which would have terminated at Birmingham International to continue to Leamington Spa, replacing the new Coventry-Kenilworth-Leamington hourly service, providing connections to the Chilterns from Liverpool and giving Kenilworth a direct train to Birmingham New Street

But Coventry to Leamington isn't wired.

 

[Camden]

Maybe I mean in "May".
It was in a Merseytravel document I think
.

I looked up, and the Halton Curve isn't due to run passenger services until December. Blackpool will be re-instated in May, so will revert to being Liverpool South Parkway to Blackpool North via Liverpool Lime Street.

I'm not convinced that the introduction of Chester services in December will see this change.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I looked up, and the Halton Curve isn't due to run passenger services until December. Blackpool will be re-instated in May, so will revert to being Liverpool South Parkway to Blackpool North via Liverpool Lime Street.
I'm not convinced that the introduction of Chester services in December will see this change.

Two pointers:
- the OTT draft timetables for May show Blackpool trains starting from Lime St not South Parkway
- there's a Merseytravel consultation response somewhere which acknowledges the cut-back to Lime St and says the path will be taken by the Chester service (when it starts).

None of this is conclusive of course.
Maybe the Blackpool will continue until the Chester starts.

 

[fowler9]

Two pointers:
- the OTT draft timetables for May show Blackpool trains starting from Lime St not South Parkway
- there's a Merseytravel consultation response somewhere which acknowledges the cut-back to Lime St and says the path will be taken by the Chester service (when it starts).

None of this is conclusive of course.
Maybe the Blackpool will continue until the Chester starts.

Gutted, I quite enjoyed my private train from Parkway. Ha ha.

 

[sd0733]

Well to complete the pack they could send it to Rugeley via Soho and Walsall...

Apparently there is mention in the latest railnews that the 3rd will infact be a Cannock via Walsall altho not really sure why it would terminate there over rugeley.

 

[SeanM1997]

I think the service pattern between Wolverhampton and Birmingham should be (December 2018):
Manchester Piccadilly - Bournemouth (XC) EXPRESS
Manchester Piccadilly - Exeter St Davids (XC) EXPRESS
Liverpool Lime Street - London Euston (LNR) EXPRESS
Liverpool Lime Street - Birmingham International (LNR) COSELEY, TIPTON, DUDLEY PORT, SANDWELL & DUDLEY, SMETHWICK GALTON BRIDGE AND SMETHWICK ROLFE STREET
Scotland - London Euston (VT) SANDWELL & DUDLEY
Shrewsbury - Birmingham New Street (WMR) SANDWELL & DUDLEY
Shrewsbury - Birmingham New Street (WMR) COSELEY
Wales - Birmingham International (AW) SMETHWICK GALTON BRIDGE
Crewe - London Euston (LNR) via Stoke SMETHWICK GALTON BRIDGE
Wolverhampton - Walsall (WMR) COSELEY, TIPTON, DUDLEY PORT, SANDWELL & DUDLEY, SMETHWICK GALTON BRIDGE AND SMETHWICK ROLFE STREET

So this would provide:
Coseley 3ph
Tipton 2ph
Dudley Port 2ph
Sandwell & Dudley 4ph
Smethwick Galton Street 4ph
Smethwick Rolfe Street 2ph

 

[sjoh]

I think the service pattern between Wolverhampton and Birmingham should be (December 2018):
Manchester Piccadilly - Bournemouth (XC) EXPRESS
Manchester Piccadilly - Exeter St Davids (XC) EXPRESS
Liverpool Lime Street - London Euston (LNR) EXPRESS
Liverpool Lime Street - Birmingham International (LNR) COSELEY, TIPTON, DUDLEY PORT, SANDWELL & DUDLEY, SMETHWICK GALTON BRIDGE AND SMETHWICK ROLFE STREET
Scotland - London Euston (VT) SANDWELL & DUDLEY
Shrewsbury - Birmingham New Street (WMR) SANDWELL & DUDLEY
Shrewsbury - Birmingham New Street (WMR) COSELEY
Crewe - London Euston (LNR) via Stoke SMETHWICK GALTON BRIDGE
Wolverhampton - Walsall (WMR) COSELEY, TIPTON, DUDLEY PORT, SANDWELL & DUDLEY, SMETHWICK GALTON BRIDGE AND SMETHWICK ROLFE STREET

So this would provide:
Coseley 3ph
Tipton 2ph
Dudley Port 2ph
Sandwell & Dudley 4ph
Smethwick Galton Street 3ph
Smethwick Rolfe Street 2ph

What've you done with Arriva Trains Wales?
As far as I recall there aren't plans for WMR to run 2tph from Shrewsbury. The only plan is for them to take over the stopping service from ATW on Sundays, allowing ATW customers from the likes of Chester not to have to stop at Shifnal and such.

 

[pt_mad]

What've you done with Arriva Trains Wales?
As far as I recall there aren't plans for WMR to run 2tph from Shrewsbury. The only plan is for them to take over the stopping service from ATW on Sundays, allowing ATW customers from the likes of Chester not to have to stop at Shifnal and such.

I also heard 2 x tph WMtrains to Shrewsbury

 

[SeanM1997]

What've you done with Arriva Trains Wales?
As far as I recall there aren't plans for WMR to run 2tph from Shrewsbury. The only plan is for them to take over the stopping service from ATW on Sundays, allowing ATW customers from the likes of Chester not to have to stop at Shifnal and such.

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news...lic-transport-for-telford-fundamental-growth/
This states three trains between Shrewsbury/Telford and Birmingham - one Arriva and two West Midlands Rail

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think the service pattern between Wolverhampton and Birmingham should be (December 2018):
Liverpool Lime Street - Birmingham International (LNR) COSELEY, TIPTON, DUDLEY PORT, SANDWELL & DUDLEY, SMETHWICK GALTON BRIDGE AND SMETHWICK ROLFE STREET
Shrewsbury - Birmingham New Street (WMR) SANDWELL & DUDLEY
Shrewsbury - Birmingham New Street (WMR) COSELEY
Wales - Birmingham International (AW) SMETHWICK GALTON BRIDGE
Crewe - London Euston (LNR) via Stoke SMETHWICK GALTON BRIDGE
Wolverhampton - Walsall (WMR) COSELEY, TIPTON, DUDLEY PORT, SANDWELL & DUDLEY, SMETHWICK GALTON BRIDGE AND SMETHWICK ROLFE STREET

So that puts the local stops into one of the Liverpools rather than the Stoke, with the other local going to Walsall.
That's a real downgrade for the Liverpool.
The original idea for the locals was to add stops into some fast services and remove them from the locals, to even up journey time and capacity.
The WMR extra Shrewsbury is a franchise commitment, but I guess may not start in Dec 2018.

 

[SeanM1997]

So that puts the local stops into one of the Liverpools rather than the Stoke, with the other local going to Walsall.
That's a real downgrade for the Liverpool.
The original idea for the locals was to add stops into some fast services and remove them from the locals, to even up journey time and capacity.
The WMR extra Shrewsbury is a franchise commitment, but I guess may not start in Dec 2018.

But as the Liverpool to Birmingham International service is fairly local compared to Liverpool/Crewe to London Euston services it would be ideal to attach them onto that....even better would be to put the local stops onto the new Shrewsbury-Birmingham service providing a stopper and a fast in addition to Wales services

 

[fowler9]

But as the Liverpool to Birmingham International service is fairly local compared to Liverpool/Crewe to London Euston services it would be ideal to attach them onto that....even better would be to put the local stops onto the new Shrewsbury-Birmingham service providing a stopper and a fast in addition to Wales services

Sad to see another one of Liverpool's few inter city services turned in to a stopper.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sad to see another one of Liverpool's few inter city services turned in to a stopper.

It's not an InterCity service, it's a regional express. It used to be 1tph fast, 1tph Crewe local, now it's 2tph semi-fast.

That model is used to up frequencies in a lot of places - it's going to be happening in places on TPE as well. Its advantage is that up to a certain point it's better to have 2tph with stops than 1tph express, because if the timing of the 1tph express doesn't suit you've effectively just added 59 minutes (or whatever) to your journey time.

 

[sjoh]

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news...lic-transport-for-telford-fundamental-growth/
This states three trains between Shrewsbury/Telford and Birmingham - one Arriva and two West Midlands Rail

ooh, well that had slipped by me!

However, you've still forgotten about ATW!

 

[ChrisHogan]

But as the Liverpool to Birmingham International service is fairly local compared to Liverpool/Crewe to London Euston services it would be ideal to attach them onto that....even better would be to put the local stops onto the new Shrewsbury-Birmingham service providing a stopper and a fast in addition to Wales services

I understood that the extra WMT off-peak service to Shrewsbury via running via Soho Road and Bescot rather than via Tipton, with provision in the timings to stop at Willenhall and whichever other new stations the Mayor/TfWM manage to build. Not sure how TfWM proposes to serve these new stations in the peaks.

 

[fowler9]

So technically what we are saying is Liverpool gets 1 inter city service an hour to anywhere (London). Pretty poor show for one of the larger cities in the country.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So technically what we are saying is Liverpool gets 1 inter city service an hour to anywhere (London). Pretty poor show for one of the larger cities in the country.

But it is served very well by regional express type services. TBH, I'd rather most of those than XC.

 

[6Gman]

Isn't there going to be a new station at Crewe for HS2? Seem to remember seeing an artist's impression of it some time ago in Rail News. Looked like something similar to Reading Station!

Never trust an artist's impression!

 

[AndrewE]

But it is served very well by regional express type services. TBH, I'd rather most of those than XC.

...but it would be nice to have the Scottish services (Glasgow and Edinburgh) as well as trains to the SouthWest back! I don't think Scotland really comes within Liverpool's region...

 

[fowler9]

But it is served very well by regional express type services. TBH, I'd rather most of those than XC.

Regional Expresses is one way of describing overcrowded Desiros and a few 158's. Ha ha.

 

[cle]

What's the difference? There are trains to Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield and Newcastle. Clearly there isn't demand for the highest comfort 'inter city' stock except to London.

Much of the railway nationwide has become more 'semi-fast' in exchange for higher frequency... it's better for regular users. Wires and better DME/EMUs have mitigated journey times. People taking an annual trip down to Paignton can change... not a priority.