Unacceptable whistleblowing at Blackfriars

[Islineclear3_1]

I take it you avoid caffeinated drinks such as tea and coffee? Caffeine is a far more common aggrivating factor for sufferers of tinnitus than occasional loud noises.

Not true, there are far worse aggravating factors. Where is your evidence to support this?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Surely unless it's an extremely shrill sound, only through prolonged exposure, i.e. standing too close to the speaker for too long?

Depends on the frequency spectrum and the state of mind of the individual at the time. Heightened levels of anxiety and stress reduce our tolerance to loud sounds

 

[Bromley boy]

Before making any sort of complaint, it might stand up better if you can provide quantitative evidence - e.g. measuring the peak dB using an A-weighted sound level meter

Depends on the frequency spectrum and the state of mind of the individual at the time. Heightened levels of anxiety and stress reduce our tolerance to loud sounds

I'm not sure how seriousy to take this thread.

As general point if you suffer from a physical or mental condition that makes you unusually intolerant to loud sounds wouldn't it be easier to wear ear plugs or simply avoid situations where whistles are likely to be blown?

That might be easier than lugging your your A-weighted sound level meter about to check volume levels!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Seriously - hyperacusis is a real medical condition. Wearing ear plugs might be an option for the OP but would he be able to put them in quickly enough if he sees a dispatcher raise his whistle to his lips? He could just wear earphones/listen to music

 

[Islineclear3_1]

That might be easier than lugging your your A-weighted sound level meter about to check volume levels!

If the OP was to make a formal complaint, would the railway company conduct its own investigation/research? I would expect whistles to be loud as they signal a warning - to call attention or whatever...

 

[D365]

Depends on the frequency spectrum and the state of mind of the individual at the time. Heightened levels of anxiety and stress reduce our tolerance to loud sounds

As general point if you suffer from a physical or mental condition that makes you unusually intolerant to loud sounds wouldn't it be easier to wear ear plugs or simply avoid situations where whistles are likely to be blown?

Coming at it from the perspective of having inherited a typically mild, but permanent hearing condition, I would say that one cannot always plan ahead to be expecting excessively loud noises in an everyday scenario. I find ear plugs generally to be non-conducive in a public environment or railway station setting.

 

[Bromley boy]

If the OP was to make a formal complaint, would the railway company conduct its own investigation/research? I would expect whistles to be loud as they signal a warning - to call attention or whatever...

I strongly doubt it. I must confess in years of commuting on the railway and working on it, I've never heard anyone complain about whistles being too loud (nor have I heard whistles being amplified through microphones).

From a google search of hypercusis it manifests itself through an intolerance to everyday sounds. "Everyday sounds" would include whistles being blown at stations of most people. There are many sources of noise we are exposed to in our everyday lives and surely it would be easier all round for sufferers of such an unusual condition to wear headphones or ear plugs.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

From a google search of hypercusis it manifests itself through an intolerance to everyday sounds. "Everyday sounds" would include whistles being blown at stations of most people. There are many sources of noise we are exposed to in our everyday lives and surely it would be easier all round for sufferers of such an unusual condition to wear headphones or ear plugs.

Many hyperacusis sufferers never leave home without headphones or emergency earplugs - they live in a world where the volume control in their head is stuck on full

 

[Bromley boy]

Many hyperacusis sufferers never leave home without headphones or emergency earplugs - they live in a world where the volume control in their head is stuck on full

Fair enough - it sounds like a very difficult condition to live with. Headphones when walking through stations sounds like a very sensible way of dealing with it.

Unfortunately when it comes to unusual conditions that make everyday situations intolerable for some people it can be difficult to offer a solution. Another example that springs to mind, as a train driver, is being asked by a Claustrophobia sufferer "if the train breaks down can I bang on your door"?

To which the answer of course was "you can bang on it to your heart's content but I will be unable to open it."

Very difficult to know what else to say in that circumstance!

 

[bussnapperwm]

He must be dismissed immediately!

Never let an awful member of rail staff get away so lightly. Public hanging is the only suitable punishment.

Hang, draw and quarter them I say

 

[6Gman]

He must be dismissed immediately!

And the TOC stripped of its franchise!

 

[nottsnurse]

Not true, there are far worse aggravating factors. Where is your evidence to support this?

Indeed there are far worse aggravating factors but perhaps you better re-read (read?) what I wrote.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I take it you avoid caffeinated drinks such as tea and coffee? Caffeine is a far more common aggrivating factor for sufferers of tinnitus than occasional loud noises.

Indeed there are far worse aggravating factors but perhaps you better re-read (read?) what I wrote.

I have re-read what you wrote. Apart from the typo in "aggrivating", what am I missing in the above?

 

[AnkleBoots]

Surely unless it's an extremely shrill sound, only through prolonged exposure, i.e. standing too close to the speaker for too long?

I don't know enough about tinnitus but you're probably right.

 

[Raul_Duke]

I'm not sure how seriousy to take this thread.

Sometimes I can’t believe this website is free!!

 

[Bromley boy]

Sometimes I can’t believe this website is free!!

Not sure I’d pay for it!

 

[robbeech]

I don't know enough about tinnitus but you're probably right.

OT.
He’s not I’m afraid.
Exposure to any type of noise can cause problems. Loud, not so loud, sudden, prolonged, high pitched, low pitched. It affects everyone differently.
The general idea is that sounds above a certain volume for prolonged periods of time can cause long term damage to hearing. The louder it is the less exposure you need before damage could occur. Think of it like radiation.
For those who already have hearing loss or other conditions then lower amounts of exposure than necessary can cause temporary issues.
Our ears are more sensitive at certain frequencies. They’re designed to hear speech so these ‘shrill’ sounds appear louder but it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re doing less damage.
Using normal foam ear plugs isn’t really a sensible option as a long term solution as you change the way you hear things. If you have sensitive hearing then custom made plugs with an attenuation level you choose should be the way to go. These lower the volume but without drastically altering the sound so you can still hear people speak without it being muffled.

Back almost on topic.
I agree that this shouldn’t happen. There is potential for the volume to be unacceptably high and most are set up very poorly so any form of limiting is set incorrectly.
I agree that you should say something, for it can hurt people’s hearing, and could damage equipment which simply would not be replaced as quite often there is no system in place for efficiently testing this at stations of on trains.
I don’t agree you should take any equipment and do any measurements of volume levels for 2 main reasons. 1) the staff wouldn’t understand the results (and wouldn’t be expected to) rendering the activity pointless and 2) the level of accuracy would be so low that the results would be meaningless. How many times does this happen? What reference level are you comparing this to? It’s all well and good saying I measured the whistle noise and it was 108dB A weighted, but what was the level before and after. If the level was 72dB before then this is a huge difference but a busy station full of people with glass walls can be well into the 90s anyway. But 108 might only be 102 if the people weren’t talking. And where is the measurement done? 1m from a speaker? 2m from a speaker? It’s half the volume now. To test this you’d need several days and several hundred tests from different points, a figure made from one test is sadly meaningless.

 

[Skimble19]

If the OP was to make a formal complaint, would the railway company conduct its own investigation/research? I would expect whistles to be loud as they signal a warning - to call attention or whatever...

Extremely unlikely. Based on the OPs post it sounds like the dispatcher had somehow left their Roaming Mic switched on whilst blowing the whistle - almost certainly accidentally. However on the off chance it was on purpose I’m sure after an internal brief / email was sent out advising them not to do it they would stop.

I’m not sure what system they’re using down there but the newer systems do stay on for a second or two after you’ve released the button, unlike the older mics which cut off as soon as you release the broadcast button.

A simple email to Thameslink Customer Services is all that’s required here, no need for people to start buying equipment.....! Customer Relations will then inform the station / area manager who will address the issue accordingly.

 

[Bromley boy]

A simple email to Thameslink Customer Services is all that’s required here, no need for people to start buying equipment.....! Customer Relations will then inform the station / area manager who will address the issue accordingly.

Or simply don’t bother. Actually, please don’t bother! For such a minor issue!?

Why complain, and potentially get someone who already probably does a thankless job into a world of trouble?!

I must confess complaints about “loud whistles” followed by a lengthy debate about decibel levels, shows how incredibly sad some posters on this forum can be!

 

[jon0844]

I wonder if speaking to the individual on the day might have been the best course of action? Explaining the situation and seeing what they said. The outcome of a civil conversation could have then helped decide if any further action was required, which it may very well not have been.

 

[Dougal2345]

Or simply don’t bother. Actually, please don’t bother! For such a minor issue!?

Why complain, and potentially get someone who already probably does a thankless job into a world of trouble?!

I must confess complaints about “loud whistles” followed by a lengthy debate about decibel levels, shows how incredibly sad some posters on this forum can be!

Hmmm not the most considerate of responses there! I suspect to the outside world 90% of the contents of this forum, with its talk of livery variations and unusual stock movements, would seem 'incredibly sad'... But discussing how people can be physically harmed by the railway is even "sadder", it seems? Tinnitus isn't a lot of fun you know...

I don't think anyone is aiming to get a member of staff into trouble... Unless he or she does it deliberately, in order to laugh cruelly whilst watching the crowds wince in pain, that is, which seems unlikely!

 

[talldave]

Or simply don’t bother. Actually, please don’t bother! For such a minor issue!?

Why complain, and potentially get someone who already probably does a thankless job into a world of trouble?!

I must confess complaints about “loud whistles” followed by a lengthy debate about decibel levels, shows how incredibly sad some posters on this forum can be!

The word complaint seems to have so much weight attached to it nowadays, but I disagree with doing nothing. A simple suggestion to improve the customer experience is all that's needed.

Last year, when Southeastern started their Christmas engineering work announcements they were ludicrously loud compared to all other announcements. I sent them a tweet (not a complaint!) to ask if they could lower the volume, they re-coded them at a lower level, I thanked them and everyone lived happily ever after!!

At least whistling is easily dealt with. The Thameslink wheel squeal at St Pancras is appalling and probably not so easy to fix.

 

[Raul_Duke]

The man on the Clapham Omnibus would probably accept most of the postings on here as excitable trainspotters being harmless.

However suggesting someone dispatching a train blowing a WHISTLE at a TRAIN STATION being reported to the HSE or taking sound measuring equipment and taking several readings to establish a base level..... well that’s a whole other level.

I know that a lot of people who post on here perhaps tend to be on a specific part of the autism spectrum (And I’m genuinely trying to say that in the nicest way possible), but sometimes we have to be realistic. The tone used by some of the posters was veering more towards being accusatory (‘report’ ‘formal complaint’ ‘unacceptable’) and that is what I think made it more of an issue then it was.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Most people will know/understand that mainline railway stations are exceptionally busy and noisy and those with certain debilitating conditions (e.g. tinnitus, decreased sound tolerance, mobility issues etc, etc) will make the necessary precautions to make their travelling experience as comfortable as possible with as less stress as possible. Loud, transient sounds happen all the time and I could be harsh by saying that this is expected from a busy station and to just let it go if it is an isolated incident. I seem to think that some dispatch staff deliberately wait for me to walk up and blow the whistle just as I'm passing them; yes this pisses me off, but I expect this and deal with it on a personal level. They've got a job to do and as I've said previously, whistles have to be loud, otherwise nobody would take any notice.

However, if the OP considers this to be a regular occurrence, then he either takes this up with the TOC (as kindly suggested by others) or to consider other travel alternatives. I only suggested measuring the sound level as I work in a data-driven, evidence-based practice where people want hard facts, evidence or proof before acting but I do have some understanding of dB weighting scales and limitations of sound measurement and I too, doubt very much that senior TOC managers won't understand it or even wish to.

 

[D365]

Exposure to any type of noise can cause problems. Loud, not so loud, sudden, prolonged, high pitched, low pitched. It affects everyone differently.
The general idea is that sounds above a certain volume for prolonged periods of time can cause long term damage to hearing. The louder it is the less exposure you need before damage could occur. Think of it like radiation.
For those who already have hearing loss or other conditions then lower amounts of exposure than necessary can cause temporary issues.

That’s the distinction I was trying to make; that tinnitus can be caused by a prolonged exposure, but for existing sufferers it can be aggrieved differently. I don’t know what causes it (which is the point I was responding to originally) but having inherited said condition there’s certain environments which will cause it (the ringing/white noise in this case) to become more noticeable.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I disagree with doing nothing, but in this case an email to Thameslink customer services, or a Tweet, or even a civil chat with the station manager/chap on the platform more than suffices. This is a comparatively small problem that occurred accidentally and a casual reminder to station staff does not mean anyone is going to disciplined/fired/executed by firing squad on the up platform.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I know that a lot of people who post on here perhaps tend to be on a specific part of the autism spectrum

Almost all autistic people (wherever they are on the spectrum) live with daily decreased sound tolerance along with other sensitivity issues/overload and these are the cohort that are most likely to take precautions or avoid challenging situations altogether. Many do not like bright, noisy places and thus won't travel on public transport.

 

[Llanigraham]

As a tinnitus sufferer, which has resulted in a loss of hearing, only discovered when I went for one of NR's tri-annual medicals, I know wear a hearing aid that produces white noise to counteract the whistling in my left ear. If there are sudden loud noises above a certain frequency, eg a whistle blown, then the hearing aid "shuts down", so I don't hear it. Funnily enough that type of scenario happens quite a lot, from the noisy motorcycle going passed to the clatter of the bin lorry each fortnight. Do I complain about it? No, I accept that it is all part of life's rich tapestry, and since it last but a few seconds, so what.

And I think you will find that tinnitus itself doesn't come under any "disablity" definitions, but wearing a hearing aid classes me as "of partial hearing" so I am classified as disabled.

They reckon mine was probably caused by a mis-spent youth at loud concerts and taking part in loud motorsport!

 

[driver_m]

As a tinnitus sufferer, which has resulted in a loss of hearing, only discovered when I went for one of NR's tri-annual medicals, I know wear a hearing aid that produces white noise to counteract the whistling in my left ear. If there are sudden loud noises above a certain frequency, eg a whistle blown, then the hearing aid "shuts down", so I don't hear it. Funnily enough that type of scenario happens quite a lot, from the noisy motorcycle going passed to the clatter of the bin lorry each fortnight. Do I complain about it? No, I accept that it is all part of life's rich tapestry, and since it last but a few seconds, so what.

And I think you will find that tinnitus itself doesn't come under any "disablity" definitions, but wearing a hearing aid classes me as "of partial hearing" so I am classified as disabled.

They reckon mine was probably caused by a mis-spent youth at loud concerts and taking part in loud motorsport!

Well said. This thread has got some comedy gold in it, and yet the tinnitus is nothing to laugh about. I can't believe I've read someone further up denying that caffeinated drinks don't trigger it. It certainly does trigger it. Add aspartame to the mix and it's even worse. Seems in life at the moment people want everything to adjust to their wants. The railway us a noisy place, so deal with it, don't expect it to change 200 years of practice just to suit yourself.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I can't believe I've read someone further up denying that caffeinated drinks don't trigger it. It certainly does trigger it. Add aspartame to the mix and it's even worse.

If this is aimed at me then that is not what I said. You have implied it from my post. I did not deny that caffeinated drinks cause tinnitus (I simply asked for the evidence to prove/disprove it); what I said was that there are far worse aggravating factors (than caffeine). There are many, many causes of tinnitus