ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Paul Kerr]

The power cars should have the prefix too, since they are also numbered as coaching stock.

When the HSTs were first introduced, you are correct; they were classed as DEMUs and the power cars were classified as motor coaches. However the power cars were reclassified as Class 43 locomotives in the late 1980s so an SC prefix would not be appropriate now, would it?

 

[BRX]

Just spied a couple of HST trailers in FGW livery inside inverness carriage shed.

 

[theblackwatch]

Just spied a couple of HST trailers in FGW livery inside inverness carriage shed.

They are 42143/145, moved there for static staff training.

 

[brel york]

No sign of a finished unit yet

 

[BRX]

They are 42143/145, moved there for static staff training.

I'm curious as to what training can be done in unmodified coaches that bear little resemblance to the layout of those that will eventually be in use?

 

[najaB]

I'm curious as to what training can be done in unmodified coaches that bear little resemblance to the layout of those that will eventually be in use?

There aren't that many changes being made to the external mechanics.

 

[Clansman]

HST introduction confirmed to be pushed back by up to a month or two, which backs up brel_york's opinion in #1274.

 

[Macwomble]

So with HSTs being a tad late, and 385s more than a little late, have TS/Scotrail been more than a shade ambitious with their "transformation" plans?

 

[brel york]

I’m hearing from my angel contact that angel told ScotRail that having all the rakes ready for may launch was a bit over optimistic, they said launch with one rake and use rakes of de branded un modified hst cars until the rear are ready
They flatly refused

 

[kkong]

I’m hearing from my angel contact that angel told ScotRail that having all the rakes ready for may launch was a bit over optimistic, they said launch with one rake and use rakes of de branded un modified hst cars until the rear are ready
They flatly refused

You can understand why.

It would a PR and branding disaster to launch a new flagship service which is not what was promised.

Presumably someone will be contractually penalised for not having the sets in service by the due date.

 

[brel york]

Yeah , we are recruiting like crazy but we can’t get experienced staff

 

[Clansman]

So with HSTs being a tad late, and 385s more than a little late, have TS/Scotrail been more than a shade ambitious with their "transformation" plans?

Transport Scotland wouldn't have set unachievable targets if they had reason to believe the organisations the new ScotRail franchise were working with (Hitachi, Wabtec & Brush) would encounter the internal issues that they have.

 

[brel york]

Roscos have had their heads in the sand regarding 2020 prm , repairers have been hoping the date would stretch and now it’s blowing up in their face

 

[Clansman]

Roscos have had their heads in the sand regarding 2020 prm , repairers have been hoping the date would stretch and now it’s blowing up in their face

In which case having a flexible margin for error would have been a life saver.

 

[brel york]

Renatus been really late hasn’t helped

 

[sprinterguy]

(Hitachi and Brel York)

While I'm sure that our helpful "man on the ground" is doing his very utmost to singlehandedly complete this project between posting titillating tidbits for us on this forum, you do recognise that that's neither the name nor location of the company responsible for the Scotrail HST refurbishment? The world's moved on in the past twenty five years (Though not always for the better ).

 

[Clansman]

Copy and Paste can be a pain in the backside sometimes. Fixed that now

 

[sprinterguy]

Copy and Paste can be a pain in the backside sometimes.

Ah, yep, I hear you there. Carry on...

 

[Clansman]

Ah, yep, I hear you there. Carry on...

You didn't hear me say it though

Renatus been really late hasn’t helped

Surprised the project hasn't been pulled tbh. Always noticed the demonstrator unit laying lifeless at Donny every time I pass through, with them horrid single flapped windows.

 

[capital12]

wouldnt it be great if the trailers had SC prefix to the numbers

The power cars should have the prefix too, since they are also numbered as coaching stock.

Why? Surely the livery will be a big enough clue that they’re Scottish?!

I would kind of get it if everything was in one livery like the 80s maybe.

 

[43096]

Roscos have had their heads in the sand regarding 2020 prm , repairers have been hoping the date would stretch and now it’s blowing up in their face

Right issue, but wrong target. The ROSCOs have not had their heads in the sand over this: they flagged it as an issue from the start and have repeatedly done so since. The problem, as always, is DfT which has let franchises with no commitment to do PRM work (old Northern, ATW etc) so because there is no funding it hasn’t been done.

There was a very simple solution: simply mandate each franchise to make the necessary mods as they went through interior work. If they’d started that back in 2012 it would have been a long term achievable programme, offering a steady workload to the overhaulers.

 

[brel york]

While I'm sure that our helpful "man on the ground" is doing his very utmost to singlehandedly complete this project between posting titillating tidbits for us on this forum, you do recognise that that's neither the name nor location of the company responsible for the Scotrail HST refurbishment? The world's moved on in the past twenty five years (Though not always for the better ).

Fortunately I’m not on that particular project

 

[delt1c]

Why? Surely the livery will be a big enough clue that they’re Scottish?!

I would kind of get it if everything was in one livery like the 80s maybe.

Why should it be everything < if even they carried SC would be nice

 

[sprinterguy]

Fortunately I’m not on that particular project

That must be a relief!

 

[NotATrainspott]

The ScotRail franchise agreement said that no cascaded trains should enter service without a refurb. The 321s ended up in service without one, but I think that was acceptable since it was just additional capacity rather than a replacement train. HSTs without a refurb would not be acceptable, since they would represent a significant backwards step in important respects compared to the 170s.

 

[brel york]

The ScotRail franchise agreement said that no cascaded trains should enter service without a refurb. The 321s ended up in service without one, but I think that was acceptable since it was just additional capacity rather than a replacement train. HSTs without a refurb would not be acceptable, since they would represent a significant backwards step in important respects compared to the 170s.

Your right lol

 

[47271]

Absolutely, a trip in GWR HST Standard Class is without doubt inferior to a Scotrail 170. Rows and rows of cramped airline seats and terrible lighting, the Scottish media would have a field day. Okay, they're going to have a field day anyway because every jolt and splutter made by these trains is going to be pored over, but there's no need for self inflicted injuries.

They must be refurbed before they turn a wheel for Scotrail.

 

[Northhighland]

Absolutely, a trip in GWR HST Standard Class is without doubt inferior to a Scotrail 170. Rows and rows of cramped airline seats and terrible lighting, the Scottish media would have a field day. Okay, they're going to have a field day anyway because every jolt and splutter made by these trains is going to be pored over, but there's no need for self inflicted injuries.

They must be refurbed before they turn a wheel for Scotrail.

Totally agree. This has to be right from the start. Yes the extra capacity would great, better to take some time and get it right from the start.

 

[AndrewE]

Totally agree. This has to be right from the start. Yes the extra capacity would great, better to take some time and get it right from the start.

What a luxury! ...unlike the TransPennine services, which are so grossly overcrowded that

The ScotRail franchise agreement said that no cascaded trains should enter service without a refurb. The 321s ended up in service without one, but I think that was acceptable since it was just additional capacity rather than a replacement train.

applies. Get stuff running now, then cycle it through the refurbishment in succession. By the time the last set is done the "float" stock that was in use to release the others will be have been found to be necessary anyway..

 

[47271]

What a luxury! ...unlike the TransPennine services, which are so grossly overcrowded that
applies. Get stuff running now, then cycle it through the refurbishment in succession. By the time the last set is done the "float" stock that was in use to release the others will be have been found to be necessary anyway..

Well, you could try it with one set and see how the media reacts...

It's the high density seating that's the killer, I'd just about be with you otherwise.