Reading commuters: should more long distance GWR trains skip this station?

[Bletchleyite]

Many longer distance passengers will have seat reservations, but for those who don't, earlier boarding could help solve that. What's the minimum peak turnround at Paddington today? Could a train be opened say up to 10 mins before departure if cleaning and servicing were complete?

Do GWR offer reservations to Reading season ticket holders, out of interest? I know GNER used to allow a standing reservation to be made by a season ticket holder.

 

[NSEFAN]

Do GWR offer reservations to Reading season ticket holders, out of interest? I know GNER used to allow a standing reservation to be made by a season ticket holder.

Standing reservation being a recurring reservation, not reserving a spot in which to stand, I hope?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Standing reservation being a recurring reservation, not reserving a spot in which to stand, I hope?

Only place I ever saw those is RyanRail, sorry, Thalys Izy (a successful attempt at making Thalys worse than it already is).

 

[Deerfold]

IMO, more of the long distance services should yes, but only a small handful. I am not of the opinion that long-distance trains should call at every station along the line, but Reading is a big city.

Reading is certainly an important location, but it's not a city.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reading is certainly an important location, but it's not a city.

Does anyone other than the UK have the town-city status distinction, out of interest? In Germany it'd certainly be a Grossstadt.

 

[reddragon]

True it is a town, turned down at every city application even though it is apparently the fastest growing 'city' in Europe

 

[coppercapped]

I don't think anyone needs to be a genius to work out which large city is located to the east of Reading... whether they have just started commuting or not and, as a result, where all the trains are going to end up. People aren't stupid. They can work out for themselves what's going on, they talk to fellow commuters, etc.



I doubt 10 and 11 could handle any more trains - they're already busy enough and moving trains across from the relief line would cause conflicts with westbound relief line services, freights heading to the Berks & Hants, etc - the whole point of rebuilding Reading station and adding the flyover and altering the junctions to the west was to remove conflicts.

In addition, switching the Didcot limited-stop 387 services to/from the main lines at Maidenhead or other places to the east makes the best use of the capacity available on the reliefs and allows trains arriving from the London direction to be sorted out well to the east of Reading.

I've said it before, so I'll say it again - is it so hard for all the people here with 'solutions' to just wait and see what impact the introduction of the 387s and 800s, with their extra seats, the new GWR timetable in 12 months' time and Crossrail reaching Reading in December 2019 have on the situation?

All that adds up to a huge increase in capacity for the Thames Valley, even before you get to the likely changes to travel habits that Crossrail will permit, by offering direct access to central London and the City. It may just turn out that they do the trick all by themselves, without barriers, armies of staff policing commuters, etc, etc, etc...

As we can see, reddragon's journey habits have already been changed just by the first phase of 387 operation west of Maidenhead.

Thank you jimm! This post gives the correct answer for all the 'solutions' offered in earlier posts - many of whom have ignored the importance of travel to Reading for work.
Even if the Class 80Xs of themselves don't give a huge increase in capacity between Reading and London, the 8 and 12 coach 387s will. In addition Crossrail will be very significant for travel between Maidenhead and London. It will be less important for the Reading to London market although it will assist in moving people to Reading in the mornings and away in the evenings. The increase in capacity on the local services will be staggering.

Lets revisit the situation in a year's time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The increase in capacity on the local services will be staggering.

Lets revisit the situation in a year's time.

It will be interesting to see if Reading commuters choose the 387s. I would - they have very nice interiors and starting at or near Reading will mean less of a seat bun-fight. (When I commute from Bletchley I always choose the 0713 which starts there rather than the faster 0700, and at other times the trains originating at MKC rather than further north - I value a seat of my choice over a slightly faster journey).

 

[tbtc]

I've said it before, so I'll say it again - is it so hard for all the people here with 'solutions' to just wait and see what impact the introduction of the 387s and 800s, with their extra seats, the new GWR timetable in 12 months' time and Crossrail reaching Reading in December 2019 have on the situation?

All that adds up to a huge increase in capacity for the Thames Valley, even before you get to the likely changes to travel habits that Crossrail will permit, by offering direct access to central London and the City. It may just turn out that they do the trick all by themselves, without barriers, armies of staff policing commuters, etc, etc, etc...

As we can see, reddragon's journey habits have already been changed just by the first phase of 387 operation west of Maidenhead.

Agreed.

Of all of the problems out there on the UK rail network, I'm surprised that we are expending so much froth on something that we are already spending hundreds of millions of pounds to solve (the Reading station upgrade, electrification of the GWML, the 387s, the 800/801/802s...).

Maybe if things are still crowded in the 2020s it'll be worth arguing about but (since it's been a big enough priority to throw a billion pounds at) maybe there's little point in "my solution for Reading commuters" whilst we wait to see if the Government's solution for Reading commuters works.

In terms of enforcing pick-up/set-down only: How about a technological solution: Modify the door controls, so that they can be set to be opened only from the inside if it's a set-down-only stop, or only from the outside if it's a pick-up-only stop.

Ignoring my above rant(!), yours is an interesting point - one I'd not considered - I have no idea if this is feasible but that would be clever technology - given how risk averse people are, it might only have to catch someone out once a month to make them reluctant to chance their luck (compared to ending up in Taunton/ Swindon, paying a fine and having to get a train back to Reading).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there any scope to charge a financial penalty, e.g. a ticket to/from the next station or a PF, to someone boarding a train in this way? It doesn't seem clear to me if it is legally enforceable or not, given that the laws seem to refer to holding a ticket valid for the journey rather than valid for the specific train, and it is not possible to restrict an Anytime ticket other than by routes or TOCs.

 

[MarkyT]

Makes me think more about a Thames Valley Metro franchise for the area, using mostly emus, with a few dmus retained for the branches until they're electrified. TVM would operate only on the reliefs between Slough and Reading and between Reading and Didcot. East of Slough they would run on the reliefs only as far as the western connection junction to Heathrow (perhaps projected through the airport to a reversing point, say Hayes and Harlington as shown), but would also have rights to fast direct paths on the mains via West Drayton to Paddington. The GWR main line operator would exclusively operate 80xs in the Thames Valley area and concentrate on longer distance Intercity services including Bedwyn/Westbury and Cotswold services beyond Newbury and Oxford respectively. In the shadow of the Thames Valley and Heathrow Express fast paths on the mains, certain GWR trains would be able to make skip calls at either Slough or Maidenhead, using the main line platforms. At Reading, the GWR and TVM services towards London would thus all use different platform groups. Hence if separately gated, different fare levels might apply, with a premium added for GWR travel (perhaps levied automatically under Oyster if you enter or exit appropriate gates at Paddington or Reading).

 

[Deerfold]

Makes me think more about a Thames Valley Metro franchise for the area, using mostly emus, with a few dmus retained for the branches until they're electrified. TVM would operate only on the reliefs between Slough and Reading and between Reading and Didcot. East of Slough they would run on the reliefs only as far as the western connection junction to Heathrow (perhaps projected through the airport to a reversing point, say Hayes and Harlington as shown), but would also have rights to fast direct paths on the mains via West Drayton to Paddington. The GWR main line operator would exclusively operate 80xs in the Thames Valley area and concentrate on longer distance Intercity services including Bedwyn/Westbury and Cotswold services beyond Newbury and Oxford respectively. In the shadow of the Thames Valley and Heathrow Express fast paths on the mains, certain GWR trains would be able to make skip calls at either Slough or Maidenhead, using the main line platforms. At Reading, the GWR and TVM services towards London would thus all use different platform groups. Hence if separately gated, different fare levels might apply, with a premium added for GWR travel (perhaps levied automatically under Oyster if you enter or exit appropriate gates at Paddington or Reading).

Isn't this just going back to the days of Thames Trains?

 

[MarkyT]

Isn't this just going back to the days of Thames Trains?

A little more lmited, without the longer distance ex-NSE elements beyond Newbury and Oxford.

 

[jimm]

Makes me think more about a Thames Valley Metro franchise for the area, using mostly emus, with a few dmus retained for the branches until they're electrified. TVM would operate only on the reliefs between Slough and Reading and between Reading and Didcot. East of Slough they would run on the reliefs only as far as the western connection junction to Heathrow (perhaps projected through the airport to a reversing point, say Hayes and Harlington as shown), but would also have rights to fast direct paths on the mains via West Drayton to Paddington. The GWR main line operator would exclusively operate 80xs in the Thames Valley area and concentrate on longer distance Intercity services including Bedwyn/Westbury and Cotswold services beyond Newbury and Oxford respectively. In the shadow of the Thames Valley and Heathrow Express fast paths on the mains, certain GWR trains would be able to make skip calls at either Slough or Maidenhead, using the main line platforms. At Reading, the GWR and TVM services towards London would thus all use different platform groups. Hence if separately gated, different fare levels might apply, with a premium added for GWR travel (perhaps levied automatically under Oyster if you enter or exit appropriate gates at Paddington or Reading).

No thanks. The route out as far as Reading is already becoming a two-operator railway again soon. We don't need three.

Some of us remember the less than glorious days of the FGW and Thames Trains split and the often peculiar timetabling and operating practices that resulted from that - two-car fast Class 165 departure from Paddington at 17.18 for Reading, Oxford and then all stations up the Cotswold Line anyone? - never mind trying to add fare segregation on top of that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

People whine about FGW/GWR, but forget just how bad Thames Trains was in comparison.

 

[MarkyT]

With a 110MPH high acceleration 387 fleet and enough rolling stock to run up to 12 cars on the fast Paddington trains where required, TVM would be a rather different operator to Thames Trains of old!

 

[Kinloss]

In the dim and distant past I used to time trains along the Thames Valley. Pick up and Set Down stops were entirely necessary in order to actually path the trains as the stop duration could be reduced. On one Taunton stopper with a 180 both Reading and Theale were pick up only, so the train could actually run, and the RPI would regularly travel on it from Paddington.
HST's have a minimum turnround time of 20 minutes at Paddington which is extended when coming from places like Swansea and the West Country.
Following the rebuilding of Reading much of the previous conflictions have been removed, especially relating to platform reoccupancy so in theory there is more scope for a greater number of stops. However having also been a commuter from west of Swindon to Paddington, Didcot and Reading stops were something everyone wanted reducing!

 

[MarkyT]

However having also been a commuter from west of Swindon to Paddington, Didcot and Reading stops were something everyone wanted reducing!

And when travelling on by Bakerloo from Paddington to south of the Thames I often wished they'd cut out those pesky time consuming calls at Oxford Street, Piccadilly Circus and Charing Cross. Why couldn't people for those minor stops just get the the local bus instead?

 

[Andrewlong]

Surely the most logical thing to do is to announce departures from Paddington 15 mins before the train leaves. The long distance passengers who generally turn up early can find their reserved seat or any seat. Reading commuters generally still have 5 mins to catch the train in front so will take that one as the next fastest train before they fill up any remaining space on a train not departing for 15 mins.

I don't see trains coming into Paddington in the morning as much of a problem as obviously long distance passengers are already on board before the train reaches Reading. Just an increase in fast / semi fast EMU crowd buster services could be used in the peaks starting / terminating further out in the Thames valley. Even if these are every 15 mins then at least some of the Reading commuters will learn to time their travel to these trains if they are likely to get a seat. Crossrail will also run 4 tph to Reading and an additional 2 tph in the peak out to Maidenhead from December 2019 so one would assume more GWR services will make fewer calls at the stations closer to London during the peaks.

In regards to long distance services not calling at Reading, GWR seem to be working towards having an hourly clock face timetable which has 2 x Bristol via Bath, 2 x S Wales, 1 x Cheltenham, 2 x Oxford / Worcester, 2 x Exeter / Plymouth and 1 x Bedwyn all running non-stop PAD - RDG with the Oxfords making a call at Slough. I make that an average of 1 train every 6 minutes which should even out the peak flow of commuters.

I do agree though with the additional 2 tph that are planned to Bristol via Parkway should not call at Reading, and I think I read somewhere that in the peaks this will change to 1 non stop to Bristol via Parkway and 1 non stop to S Wales. Maybe one or two additional non-stop trains to other destinations could be added in the morning and evening peaks but not at the expense of the clock face calls.

Two questions/statements. Firstly, there are many commuters who travel from points from beyond Reading into Paddington. There are short distance commuters and long distance commuters. Neither of which probably have reserved a seat. Secondly, how do you practically announce a train 15 minutes before it leaves but not tell Reading commuters? The use of a second phrase Reading commuters won't be able to understand?! Your savvy commuter will an app on their phone will not be taken in.

As a Reading resident and ex-commuter, if you offer me a frequent and fast 387 service non-stop to Reading and Didcot, I would happy to use it and leave the long distance travellers to the 800s and HSTs. Trouble is I don't think there will be the paths to do it!

 

[Deerfold]

Secondly, how do you practically announce a train 15 minutes before it leaves but not tell Reading commuters?

It was pointed out that in the post you quoted that if you do that, the Reading commuters will still be running for the previous train whilst those who want a direct train to a destination beyond Reading have a chance to get on the newly announced one. If 15 minutes isn't enough, how about 20?

 

[reddragon]

I think the coffee shops at Reading station should have segregated queues. A priority one for those from Reading and a really slow one for the windbags from the west.

Oh no!, that is a ridiculous idea reducing custom and capacity, increasing staffing costs. Silly me!

Thames Metro = stupid idea, we are getting Crossrail.
Segregation = no sane operator would increase costs, reduce custom and incur bad press for nowt

The Reading commuter. Who is this? 1 - A discriminatory hate term for someone who lives in Reading; 2 - someone who does not live in Reading but has the audacity to change trains at Reading Station and dare to use a fast train; 3 - Someone who commutes to and works in Reading?

As someone in category 2, when I get to Paddington I get the first fast to Reading that connects to my train from Reading. I am not going to spend an hour on a stopper, I have a life! I choose the best train, try to avoid trains to the far west. If I get a seat and someone who has arrived far too late to get a seat and did not want to wait for the next train needs a seat, I stand. In the evenings I at least now have 387 crowd buster direct fast to my local station.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Some of us remember the less than glorious days of the FGW and Thames Trains split and the often peculiar timetabling and operating practices that resulted from that - two-car fast Class 165 departure from Paddington at 17.18 for Reading, Oxford and then all stations up the Cotswold Line anyone? - never mind trying to add fare segregation on top of that.

Oh, don't remind me of that one. Commuted on it for five or six years. It was the only Cotswold train in the evening peak to stop at Reading (neither the 17.12 nor 18.22 GWT/FGW HSTs did), so the only option for those of us who lived in the Cotswolds and worked in/near Reading. It was usually wedged as far as Didcot Parkway, where it had a timetabled stop of six minutes, then intermittently busy after that. Horrid train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Reading commuters" on this thread is being used to mean anyone making a daily return journey from Reading to Paddington or to some extent vice versa, or indeed those who change there in order to make that journey.

 

[Mag_seven]

I'm sure that the full IEP, Class 387 and Crossrail timetables when they come in will hopefully address the current issues with overcrowding on the Paddington-Reading corridor, won't it?

 

[reddragon]

I'm sure that the full IEP, Class 387 and Crossrail timetables when they come in will hopefully address the current issues with overcrowding on the Paddington-Reading corridor, won't it?

Well until January, whereas most London stations has 8/10/12 car units on suburban duties the good olde GWR had 2/3 car DMUs that were unusably full and generally in the top 10 most overcrowded services so you had to be desperate to use them. With infrequent services, too full to board from stations where car parks were full by 7.30am, very expensive and there being no linking busses / alternative parking you can imagine the potential increases in passenger numbers that will follow now it is 8/12 car 387s + Crossrail.

I have got to go up to London now & hop onto a fast at Reading. I have to drive to the station - too far / no paths / no lighting / no bus / 60mph roads - probably the car park will be full, so plan B is needed. But, I promise to come back on the 387 fast if I can, it is easier for me and I do not want to be over branded as an evil Reading Commuter, doh!