Stagecoach Banbury Garage

[Cesarcollie]

The Leamington (Station Approach) depot was closed and is being redeveloped for housing. It MAY have been leased? Can’t recall if it came to Midland Red with the G&G business or not but it replaced Myton Road (now a retail park).

Stagecoach have now moved to a new depot at Trident Park on the south side of the town.

The Station Approach depot was built in circa 1990/91 to replace the Myton Road site which was for redevelopment and needed fairly heavy expenditure. It was built by Western Travel and therefore passed into Stagecoach ownership at the end of 1993. Shortly after construction the G & G business was acquired so, having been built with scope for growth, it was almost immediately too small. With subsequent expansion by Stagecoach it became even more too small!! Is this a record - a purpose built depot that lasted only circa 25 years?

 

[Busaholic]

The Station Approach depot was built in circa 1990/91 to replace the Myton Road site which was for redevelopment and needed fairly heavy expenditure. It was built by Western Travel and therefore passed into Stagecoach ownership at the end of 1993. Shortly after construction the G & G business was acquired so, having been built with scope for growth, it was almost immediately too small. With subsequent expansion by Stagecoach it became even more too small!! Is this a record - a purpose built depot that lasted only circa 25 years?

Several examples in London of purpose-built depots that didn't last 25 years.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Station Approach depot was built in circa 1990/91 to replace the Myton Road site which was for redevelopment and needed fairly heavy expenditure. It was built by Western Travel and therefore passed into Stagecoach ownership at the end of 1993. Shortly after construction the G & G business was acquired so, having been built with scope for growth, it was almost immediately too small. With subsequent expansion by Stagecoach it became even more too small!! Is this a record - a purpose built depot that lasted only circa 25 years?

Thanks for the clarification - I knew it was all in the early 1990s but the memory fades

As for purpose built bus depots not lasting, there have been ones that have had shorter lives.

• Midland Red opened a new depot at Malvern Link (replacing one in Great Malvern) in 1954 and it closed in 1976
• First replaced their Torre Road depot in Leeds c.1996 and it closed in stages by 2013. Think it's been sold now.
• GMPTE opened large new depots at Tameside (1978) and Altrincham (1981 replacing a depot on the same site) and they closed in 1991
• Midland Red opened a new depot in Wolverhampton in 1964 - closed in 1971 - open for 7 years and 7 months

North East Bus (later Arriva NE) surprisingly replaced their central works in Darlington with another facility - not certain that it last 10 years either! Also think that as part of the sale, Stagecoach had to vacate the council depot in Hartlepool which was purpose built for their bus fleet though it was shared with dustcarts etc.

I suspect that there may be some others that also failed to make 25 years - some of the heavily rebuilt London depots (places like Norbiton were almost new depots) may fall into that category.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Thanks for the clarification - I knew it was all in the early 1990s but the memory fades

As for purpose built bus depots not lasting, there have been ones that have had shorter lives.

• Midland Red opened a new depot at Malvern Link (replacing one in Great Malvern) in 1954 and it closed in 1976
• First replaced their Torre Road depot in Leeds c.1996 and it closed in stages by 2013. Think it's been sold now.
• GMPTE opened large new depots at Tameside (1978) and Altrincham (1981 replacing a depot on the same site) and they closed in 1991
• Midland Red opened a new depot in Wolverhampton in 1964 - closed in 1971 - open for 7 years and 7 months

North East Bus (later Arriva NE) surprisingly replaced their central works in Darlington with another facility - not certain that it last 10 years either! Also think that as part of the sale, Stagecoach had to vacate the council depot in Hartlepool which was purpose built for their bus fleet though it was shared with dustcarts etc.

I suspect that there may be some others that also failed to make 25 years - some of the heavily rebuilt London depots (places like Norbiton were almost new depots) may fall into that category.

Ah yes. I'd forgotten the London examples - and wasn't aware of the BMMO and PTE ones.

 

[Busaholic]

I suspect that there may be some others that also failed to make 25 years - some of the heavily rebuilt London depots (places like Norbiton were almost new depots) may fall into that category.

Streatham Garage (code AK) was closed for total rebuilding in 1984 so that it was fit for the opo age, reopening in 1987, but closed for good in 1996 as a result of the never-ending cuts imposed on London buses meaning substantial depot over-capacity. More recently, Ash Grove was never used to anything like its capacity after opening, despite it taking the place of three other garages in the area (although Clapton reopened later) and it is some time since any buses were allocated there.

 

[Robertj21a]

Streatham Garage (code AK) was closed for total rebuilding in 1984 so that it was fit for the opo age, reopening in 1987, but closed for good in 1996 as a result of the never-ending cuts imposed on London buses meaning substantial depot over-capacity. More recently, Ash Grove was never used to anything like its capacity after opening, despite it taking the place of three other garages in the area (although Clapton reopened later) and it is some time since any buses were allocated there.

Didn't Streatham close eventually because it was still structurally unsound ?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Ah yes. I'd forgotten the London examples - and wasn't aware of the BMMO and PTE ones.

Just checked the midlandred.net site to check and looks like Midland Red had a number of them - they built a number of post war depots that then closed in the 1970s. I'd forgotten about Lichfield - opened 1954 and closed 1971! Still in use as a council depot as you enter from Burton.

Then you have Stratford depot that MRS opened, closed by Stagecoach, empty, reused by Ensign, passed back to Stagecoach!

Didn't Streatham close eventually because it was still structurally unsound ?

Streatham was massively rebuilt but closed and became an ice rink or go kart place or something.

 

[BanburyBlue]

As far as I'm aware it was to make space. When all the buses are in the depot at night nearly every inch of space inside the building is used and it was decided that an extra bus or two could be squeezed in if the engineering facilities were re-arranged. It has to be said though that the paint facilities aren't needed as full repaints are few and far between outside of Oxford depot. There are still buses 8 or 9 years old in the fleet with their original paintwork so full repaints aren't a priority.

So how does the bus allocation work? Do the same buses generally work the same route? Obviously the branded, like the S4, would normally? Reason I ask is that for a while the Banbury - Brackley (500) services were branded, and you would often see them ‘off route’ on other services. This made wonder if it was a bit more random?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So how does the bus allocation work? Do the same buses generally work the same route? Obviously the branded, like the S4, would normally? Reason I ask is that for a while the Banbury - Brackley (500) services were branded, and you would often see them ‘off route’ on other services. This made wonder if it was a bit more random?

S4 is dedicated as its Gold - loadings mean it doesn’t need deckers.

500 should be the e200mmc.

Suspect the Chipping and Dav services should be e200 but it seems to be a bit fluid.

 

[robk23oxf]

Generally the B3 and B4 should be the two Solos and the Gold buses should be on the S4. The reality is though that anything can end up on any route.

 

[Busaholic]

As much as I love Banbury, having spent almost 3 great years there in the mid to late 90's, I remember it being terrible for bus services. Outside the town, the only 'regular' buses ran to Brackley, Chipping Norton, and Oxford. Leamington, Rugby, Stratford, MK, and even Bicester, forget it.

The trains have improved, although they weren't bad then, but travelling to MK or Northampton involved a massive undertaking. I suppose the former can be reached by getting the train to Bicester and then the X5.

Also, I never understood why there was a bus company servicing Oxfordshire called "South Midland". The only part of the county that could remotely be classed as Midlands is Banbury, and that's not even the case.

I believe South Midland was originally a subsidiary of the Thames Valley Traction Co., nationalised in 1948. It later merged with Aldershot & District, a B.E.T. company, so in the private sector, to become Alder Valley after creation of the National Bus Company. I'm not sure when SM was subsumed by City of Oxford Motor Services.

Entirely off-topic, but in view of a new film that's getting a lot of publicity... My only trip on an A&D bus was about 60 years ago on a Dennis (my first time on the marque) accompanying my Godmother from Guildford to Jacob's Well, where her brother lived; said brother was a beat copper, then in his 40s, and his beat was the village he lived in. This beat included a certain mansion that had been bought by an oil billionaire by the name of Paul Getty: shortly afterwards, Mr Getty asked this PC to become his security man (the only one, in those far-off days before kidnappings of grandsons, etc) and he remained in this role for about fifteen years, I believe. I heard a lot of stories over the years, by no means all to the detriment of Getty. His undoubted parsimony did not extend to bodyguard Ted, who was well provided for and implicitly trusted.

 

[BanburyBlue]

As much as I love Banbury, having spent almost 3 great years there in the mid to late 90's, I remember it being terrible for bus services. Outside the town, the only 'regular' buses ran to Brackley, Chipping Norton, and Oxford. Leamington, Rugby, Stratford, MK, and even Bicester, forget it.

The trains have improved, although they weren't bad then, but travelling to MK or Northampton involved a massive undertaking. I suppose the former can be reached by getting the train to Bicester and then the X5.

Also, I never understood why there was a bus company servicing Oxfordshire called "South Midland". The only part of the county that could remotely be classed as Midlands is Banbury, and that's not even the case.

Do agree - would be good to have buses to places like MK and Northampton that don’t have direct rail. For MK I do as you say, train to Bicester then X5 to MK.

I assume this has been a general downgrading over time - I’m sure I read somewhere that back in the 50s Banbury was a sizeable bus interchange?

As regards South Midland, as a child I remember on the side of Oxford buses the brand being ‘Oxford South Midland’. So does this mean the ‘South Midland’ refers to another location that was part of the group?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Do agree - would be good to have buses to places like MK and Northampton that don’t have direct rail. For MK I do as you say, train to Bicester then X5 to MK.

I assume this has been a general downgrading over time - I’m sure I read somewhere that back in the 50s Banbury was a sizeable bus interchange?

As regards South Midland, as a child I remember on the side of Oxford buses the brand being ‘Oxford South Midland’. So does this mean the ‘South Midland’ refers to another location that was part of the group?

As mentioned earlier, South Midland was originally a subsidiary of Aldershot & District.

It was decided that it would make more sense for it to be incorporated into the City of Oxford MS business, hence the Oxford South Midland fleetname in the 70s and 80s.

Can’t say how big a centre for services it was but the bus station was relatively large before being redeveloped.

 

[Robertj21a]

As mentioned earlier, South Midland was originally a subsidiary of Aldershot & District.

It was decided that it would make more sense for it to be incorporated into the City of Oxford MS business, hence the Oxford South Midland fleetname in the 70s and 80s.

Can’t say how big a centre for services it was but the bus station was relatively large before being redeveloped.

I don't recall it being anything to do with Aldershot & District, wasn't it under the wing of Thames Valley ?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don't recall it being anything to do with Aldershot & District, wasn't it under the wing of Thames Valley ?

You’re right - wrong one. Remind me to not drink and post

 

[Busaholic]

I don't recall it being anything to do with Aldershot & District, wasn't it under the wing of Thames Valley ?

Ahem, as I posted earlier: glad to know I'm not completely senile.

 

[A0]

Thanks for the clarification - I knew it was all in the early 1990s but the memory fades

As for purpose built bus depots not lasting, there have been ones that have had shorter lives.

• Midland Red opened a new depot at Malvern Link (replacing one in Great Malvern) in 1954 and it closed in 1976
• First replaced their Torre Road depot in Leeds c.1996 and it closed in stages by 2013. Think it's been sold now.
• GMPTE opened large new depots at Tameside (1978) and Altrincham (1981 replacing a depot on the same site) and they closed in 1991
• Midland Red opened a new depot in Wolverhampton in 1964 - closed in 1971 - open for 7 years and 7 months

North East Bus (later Arriva NE) surprisingly replaced their central works in Darlington with another facility - not certain that it last 10 years either! Also think that as part of the sale, Stagecoach had to vacate the council depot in Hartlepool which was purpose built for their bus fleet though it was shared with dustcarts etc.

I suspect that there may be some others that also failed to make 25 years - some of the heavily rebuilt London depots (places like Norbiton were almost new depots) may fall into that category.

The purpose built depot for United Counties in MK is probably another example - opened in 1983 a couple of years before privatisation kicked in - MK Metro were out of it in the early 00's IIRC, now covered by a DIY shed.

 

[BanburyBlue]

Generally the B3 and B4 should be the two Solos and the Gold buses should be on the S4. The reality is though that anything can end up on any route.

Yes, exactly. So why do bus companies route brand their buses - does it work better in larger locations with more buses on a specific route?

With a bus garage like Banbury, where as has been posted above the buses are rammed in at night, it must be a pain to get the 'branded' bus out if it's at the back. Especially at weekends when a lot of buses are not running.

 

[padbus]

Following the discussions above about bus services from Banbury, I dug out my 1967 Midland Red Leamington area and 1966 City of Oxford timetable books. At that time there were a considerable number of routes operated, as shown below, but many were extremely infrequent. Although I have shown all the services as starting from Banbury, some were operated from the other end and designed to allow a visit to Banbury and back. An attempt to travel the other way could result in a week’s wait for the bus back!

Mind you, things were not necessarily better then than now. The City of Oxford service 94 from Banbury to Oxford ran 5 times on Thursdays, 6 times on Saturdays and 4 times a day the rest of the week (including Sundays). Today’s Stagecoach S4 service runs 13 times a day Monday to Friday, 12 times on Saturdays and 4 times on Sundays.

MIDLAND RED
B1 Bus Station-Oxford Road Estate via Oxford Road
B2 Bus Station-Old Grimsbury
B3 Bus Station-Fairway
B5 Bus Station-Neithrop Estate via Broughton Road
B6 Bus Station-Neithrop Estate via Edmunds Road
B10 Old Grimsbury/Easington/Fairway/Bus Station-Alcan Works
B11 Bus Station-Oxford Road Estate via Bloxham Road
B14 Bus Station-Overthorpe
480 Banbury-Stratford via Upper Brailes and Shipston
481 Banbury-Shipston via Cherington
482 Banbury-Buckingham via Brackley and Dadford (Note 1)
484 Banbury-Turweston
485 Banbury-Milton
486 Banbury-Bloxham
487 Banbury-Hook Norton
488 Banbury-Chipping Norton via Main Road
490 Banbury-Adderbury
491 Banbury-Deddington
492 Banbury-Buckingham via Croughton
493 Banbury-Milton
494 Banbury-Buckingham via Brackley (Note 1)
496 Banbury-Chipping Campden via Shipston (Note 2)
497 Banbury-Chipping Norton via Hook Norton
498 Banbury-Burford via Chipping Norton
499 Banbury-Hinton in the Hedges
500 Banbury-Brackley
501 Banbury-Middleton Cheney
502 Banbury-Deddington via Bloxham
503 Banbury-Byfield
504 Banbury-Leamington
506 Banbury-Buckingham Station via Brackley (Notes 1 &3)
508 Banbury-Helmdon
509 Banbury-Coventry (Note 4)
510 Banbury-Hempton
511 Banbury-Rugby
512 Banbury-Northampton
513 Banbury-Mollington
514 Banbury-Claydon
515 Banbury-Leamington
516 Banbury-Byfield
528 Banbury-Gaydon Airfield
529 Banbury-C.A.D.
530 Banbury-Tysoe
531 Banbury-Wroxton
534 Banbury-Stratford via Cherington and Shipston
535 Banbury-Epwell

STRATFORD BLUE
34 Banbury-Kineton
35 Banbury-Kineton or Avon Dassett
36 Banbury-Kineton

CITY OF OXFORD
92 Banbury-Bicester via Steeple Aston
94 Banbury-Oxford (Note 5)
99 Banbury-Bicester via Ardley
100 Banbury-Bicester via Fritwell
105 Banbury-Bicester via Cottisford

R JARVIS & SONS
Banbury-Middle Barton
Banbury-Clifton

In addition, Associated Motorways coach services from Cheltenham to Norwich and Cheltenham to Peterborough passed through the town.

Note 1: Service 482/494/506 timetable shows (unguaranteed) connections at Buckingham to: Bedford (Oxford 70/United Counties 131), Oxford (Oxford 70/United Counties 131) and Aylesbury (Red Rover/United Counties 346)
Note 2: Service 496 timetable shows connections at Chipping Campden to Evesham (Midland Red 398)
Note 3: Service 506 timetable is “subject to variations to meet requirements of British Railways”.
Note 4: Service 509 timetable shows (unguaranteed) connections at Banbury to Oxford (Oxford 94)
Note 5: Service 94 timetable shows connections at Banbury to Coventry and then on to Leicester!

 

[BanburyBlue]

Following the discussions above about bus services from Banbury, I dug out my 1967 Midland Red Leamington area and 1966 City of Oxford timetable books. At that time there were a considerable number of routes operated, as shown below, but many were extremely infrequent. Although I have shown all the services as starting from Banbury, some were operated from the other end and designed to allow a visit to Banbury and back. An attempt to travel the other way could result in a week’s wait for the bus back!

Mind you, things were not necessarily better then than now. The City of Oxford service 94 from Banbury to Oxford ran 5 times on Thursdays, 6 times on Saturdays and 4 times a day the rest of the week (including Sundays). Today’s Stagecoach S4 service runs 13 times a day Monday to Friday, 12 times on Saturdays and 4 times on Sundays.

MIDLAND RED
B1 Bus Station-Oxford Road Estate via Oxford Road
B2 Bus Station-Old Grimsbury
B3 Bus Station-Fairway
B5 Bus Station-Neithrop Estate via Broughton Road
B6 Bus Station-Neithrop Estate via Edmunds Road
B10 Old Grimsbury/Easington/Fairway/Bus Station-Alcan Works
B11 Bus Station-Oxford Road Estate via Bloxham Road
B14 Bus Station-Overthorpe
480 Banbury-Stratford via Upper Brailes and Shipston
481 Banbury-Shipston via Cherington
482 Banbury-Buckingham via Brackley and Dadford (Note 1)
484 Banbury-Turweston
485 Banbury-Milton
486 Banbury-Bloxham
487 Banbury-Hook Norton
488 Banbury-Chipping Norton via Main Road
490 Banbury-Adderbury
491 Banbury-Deddington
492 Banbury-Buckingham via Croughton
493 Banbury-Milton
494 Banbury-Buckingham via Brackley (Note 1)
496 Banbury-Chipping Campden via Shipston (Note 2)
497 Banbury-Chipping Norton via Hook Norton
498 Banbury-Burford via Chipping Norton
499 Banbury-Hinton in the Hedges
500 Banbury-Brackley
501 Banbury-Middleton Cheney
502 Banbury-Deddington via Bloxham
503 Banbury-Byfield
504 Banbury-Leamington
506 Banbury-Buckingham Station via Brackley (Notes 1 &3)
508 Banbury-Helmdon
509 Banbury-Coventry (Note 4)
510 Banbury-Hempton
511 Banbury-Rugby
512 Banbury-Northampton
513 Banbury-Mollington
514 Banbury-Claydon
515 Banbury-Leamington
516 Banbury-Byfield
528 Banbury-Gaydon Airfield
529 Banbury-C.A.D.
530 Banbury-Tysoe
531 Banbury-Wroxton
534 Banbury-Stratford via Cherington and Shipston
535 Banbury-Epwell

STRATFORD BLUE
34 Banbury-Kineton
35 Banbury-Kineton or Avon Dassett
36 Banbury-Kineton

CITY OF OXFORD
92 Banbury-Bicester via Steeple Aston
94 Banbury-Oxford (Note 5)
99 Banbury-Bicester via Ardley
100 Banbury-Bicester via Fritwell
105 Banbury-Bicester via Cottisford

R JARVIS & SONS
Banbury-Middle Barton
Banbury-Clifton

In addition, Associated Motorways coach services from Cheltenham to Norwich and Cheltenham to Peterborough passed through the town.

Note 1: Service 482/494/506 timetable shows (unguaranteed) connections at Buckingham to: Bedford (Oxford 70/United Counties 131), Oxford (Oxford 70/United Counties 131) and Aylesbury (Red Rover/United Counties 346)
Note 2: Service 496 timetable shows connections at Chipping Campden to Evesham (Midland Red 398)
Note 3: Service 506 timetable is “subject to variations to meet requirements of British Railways”.
Note 4: Service 509 timetable shows (unguaranteed) connections at Banbury to Oxford (Oxford 94)
Note 5: Service 94 timetable shows connections at Banbury to Coventry and then on to Leicester!

Interesting range of services - although a lot of duplication in there.

 

[DavidGrain]

I used to know someone who worked for the Midland Red at Bearwood and he told me that on the running card for on of the buses at Banbury Garage was the instruction to wait in the lay by just outside a village whose name I don't remember until City of Oxford service had passed. This was because two buses could not pass in the village.